Carth Onasi is alive?

[Knights&Darths]

*SPOILER WARNING*

Anyone find his appearance sort of weak? Look at Mandalore, now that's the way you bring back a character from Kotor. He's leader of the Mandalorians, and he's uniting the clans, not to mention the shiny armor, and most importantly the kickass entrance on the Ravager. Then we have same ol'Carth, in ugly armor, and crippled cutscene. Don't know if you ever noticed, but on Citadel Station, during the attack, there's just the Ravager out there, the rest of the Sith and Republic fleets is gone, along with half the universe. You can't even see the Ravager due to lack of proper camera shots, but you can clearly see the end of space through the windows on that hammerhead ship. Think it was out of haste that they didn't give him an admiral's uniform like Dodonna's?

[refuse]

I see your point, but it could quite possibly be to maintain the characters' recognisability (after all, Bastila is also in her generic outfit I believe), or even an oversight. Don't forger that Canderous/Mandalore has a greater role in the development of the game than Carth/Bastila, so it's only inevitable that they would focus a lot on his appearance and develop his story (as little as they did, but that's genuinely a result of the game's rushed release). Carth did strike me as the sort of person though who would probably leave the safety of his command ship to fight with his troops, go on solo missions etc, like most of the Star Wars heroes, so him wearing his armour didn't throw me off.

[mr insomniac]

I equate it to the reduced role they gave jar-jar binks in Attack of the Clones. Less Carth is a good thing.

[Knights&Darths]

Well I personally like Carth, but that's not the point. I think the Battle of Telos is supposed to be the true ending of the game, kind of like the Star Forge in kotor, it's when the Republic meets the Sith in battle, it's all you have been training for, your quest, the business with Kreia is something else. So the true disappointment for me, more than anything else, was really this part of the game. It should not have been this short, to begin with, there's great stuff but there should have been more. There's enough on the Ravager, but the Republic is barely involved, and even that little cutscene is crap, I mean it should have been better.

 

 

I tried to improve it a little, but it's still short, there's little content, and a mod is just a mod, I prefer original material.

[refuse]

I disagree with the Battle of Telos being the true ending of the game. The entire game is set in the shadow of the events from the first game, so it would only be fitting for the game to further that aspect of being on the margins of influencing things. After all, the focus of the game is not on the Sith vs Jedi clash, but rather Force/No Force dilemma put forward by Kreia. The Sith, Jedi, Republic, gangs, etc were are all manipulated to varying degrees to further Kreia's agenda.

 

The more I think about it though, the game reminds me a bit of the 'Search For The Pink Panther' or something, where the heroes are retracing the missing steps of Revan, while dealing with the situations left in the wake of his passing by and affecting everyone. Peter Sellers = Revan?

[Knights&Darths]

I disagree with the Battle of Telos being the true ending of the game [

[refuse]

It was my understanding that Kreia manipulated Nihilus all the way, as with everyone else she interacts. She manipulated the situations in order to get Nihilus in his weakened state above Telos, both to draw him out and to force the Exile to take action. After all she is the main bad guy, the orchestrator of everything that unfolds.

[Knights&Darths]

But she could have done nothing without the Exile. And her intentions are only revealed in the end, before that, all that drives the Exile is Nihilus and the threat he represents.

[I want teh kotor 3]

See, that's the thing about K2, they kept the absolute worst thing from K1...

[Knights&Darths]

Like HK, Bastila and Canderous? Those are fan favorites. As for me, I'm not strange there are a lot of Carth fans as well, I just can't seem to find any on these boards

[refuse]

But she could have done nothing without the Exile. And her intentions are only revealed in the end, before that, all that drives the Exile is Nihilus and the threat he represents.

 

I don't think so; after all during the game your party members will object to the influence Kreia has over the Exile, which to me hinted quite early on that she was a lot more involved in the development and resolution of the plot than any other character in the game, about as much if not more than Bastila had on Revan in the first game. The cutscenes with her two Sith apprentices further suggest that she is the mastermind behind it all. Her manipulation of the other powerful Sith to me only indicates that she is all that more powerful than all the others. Sure, Nihilus can sap the life-force from an entire Force-sensitive planet, but that only made him more vulnerable in the long run, nothing more than say a 'vampire'. Yes, powerful, but with big weaknesses too, so long as you use them to your benefit. Don't forget that it was Kreia who manipulated the events to bring him over Telos, to cause the confrontation. You might say that this was a test for the final conflict in the game.

 

Futhermore, I don't think it's the threat Nihilus represents that is the only drive of the Exile in the game; he is more of the excuse than the real cause and finding the truth behind the cutting off from the Force is a major push in seeking out the Jedi Masters. In the DS path revenge is the key motivator and Nihilus is little more than an obstacle in assuming greater power. I was actually let down at how little Nihilus took part in the game and how little character development he had (way beyond what I'd class as 'mysterious').

[Dark_Raven]

His short time was fine by me. They needed more Bastila though.

[Knights&Darths]

Sure, Nihilus can sap the life-force from an entire Force-sensitive planet, but that only made him more vulnerable

It did make him more dangerous though, and that is all that matters. I never said Nihilus was smarter than Kreia, but she could not destroy him on her own, she just couldn't, the Exile was all that stood in his way. Without her, he would have killed the galaxy. And Kreia. Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that while the player knows what's going on since the start, the Exile doesn't, and all that compels her on her journey is a Sith threat that she has no way to escape, because the Sith believe her to be the last of the Jedi. Stopping Nihilus is why she gathers the Jedi Masters in the first place, and that's what you do the whole time, only then kreia reveals herself to the Exile as one of the Lords of the Sith. Not even then, really, she is surprised to hear Atton speak of her as one of the Sith. And that's not because the Exile is blind, that's because the story was written this way. Only the player was supposed to know. Atton knows because she tells him on the Ebon Hawk when he tries to call it quits between them, and Mical, well, she makes him forget.

They needed more Bastila though.

Like have her battle-meditate the Sith fleet over Telos, say on Carth's flagship, the Sojourn.

[refuse]

I'm not convinced by your argument, but I see what you see. Your argument about Nihilu's strength reminds of the scene in Starship Troopers where during training the marine doesn't understand why he has to learn to use a knife when he has nuclear bombs in his arsenal. The drill-instructor then demonstrates how you can't press the launch button when your hand is nailed to a wall. Nihilus' overconfidence (fueled by his unsatiable self-destructive power) was ultimately his greatest weakness.

 

I just feel that the game's plot is more transparent to make the final confrontation with Kreia more obvious and of greater importance to the game, to constitute her the 'major' bad guy in the game. I just think that Nihilus, despite his raw power was ultimately a pawn in Kreia's plan, just like everyone else she comes in contact with. That's her game. Even in combat, he's fairly easier to defeat that Kreia. Her manipulation of everyone is simply another way of saying that true power for a force-user (sith or jedi), is to be able to not rely on the force and use other means necessary to accomplish one's goals. Lets agree to disagree.

[Knights&Darths]

If you insist^^

But like I said, all of Kreia's manipulations would have mattered very little if Nihilus had not been stopped, and the Exile had the only means to do that.

The drill-instructor then demonstrates how you can't press the launch button when your hand is nailed to a wall.

In this instance, Nihilus is the knife, not the nuke button. Kreia can press the right buttons to achieve what she wants, but if Nihilus turned his power upon whatever planet she's on

[Omelette]

I am a Carth fan and I exist on these boards.

[Knights&Darths]

Then I hope you liked the uniform I made for him. I based it on three different models, including those of Admiral Dodonna and Admiral Karath. It's nothing that good, but it's better than that horrible red armor. If my modeling skills get any better I'll try and improve on it. I wish I could make a vocal synthesizer and add more dialog.

[refuse]

I regard the marine as Nihilus and the Nuke as his enormous strength. His arrogance and over-reliance (or rather self-destructive hunger) on his destructive/enourmous power make him vulnerable to the simplicity of the knife, demonstrated by how he doesn't even consider it a threat in the first place. If Nihilus had any more an agenda beyond trying to secure his next 'meal', much like a heroin-addict only thinks of his/her next hit, he would probably be more smart about protecting himself, instead of losing his mind in thinking in terms of celestial bodies. Don't forget that it's not ambition or greed or anything consious that drives Nihilus, but quite sadly, his addictive thirst. Same with the other Sith lord who looks like he slept with some vibroblades. Kreia on the other hand comes on top since she also figured out to live without the force, much like the Exile.

 

I think that Kreia would have had confidence in the Exile overcomming the barrier (since she constantly stresses learning from the experience of being cut off from the Force and thinking outside of the 'box' it imposes), or at the very least predict that Nihilus would eventually 'implode' on himself, being starved to death since Telos didn't have the masses of Jedi and Force-sensitives he was lead to believe he had in the first place. Don't forget Kreia brought back Vaklu's general from near death to lure Nihilus over Telos.

[Knights&Darths]

Kreia got "lucky" to have Tobin right there. Without the Exile, there was no way for her to even send word to Nihilus. And without the Exile, nothing's stopping him from draining Telos completely even though there weren't any Jedi, beside Atris. Whatever traps Kreia might have set for him, she or anyone else for that matter, there is no escape, he would have killed everything. Only the Exile has what it takes to resist his attack, and therefore she's the only one who may harm him.

[The Yeti of 66]

She may have been lucky to find Tobin specifically, but don't you remember her insisting that she go to Onderon with you? That had nothing to do with shaping your development, Onderon part II was all action. She was there to send that message to Nihilus.

[Knights&Darths]

don't you remember her insisting that she go to Onderon with you?

No, no. The Exile says she must go to Onderon, and Kreia seconds that. No one insists on anything, not that that changes much. As I said, the most she could do was draw him out, but once she did that, nothing would have stopped him. The Republic fleet, the Mandalorians, or any Jedi other than the Exile would have been killed before they tried anything.

[refuse]

I don't think there is anything really 'lucky' about Kreia bumping into Tobin, not when the Force is involved! Don't forget she has precognitive abilities, so 'luck' seems kind of far-fetched to me. If it wasn't Tobin though, it would have been some other Royalist/Sith collaborator who would run along to Nihilus with Kreia's message.

 

Furthermore, I get the feeling that Nihilus would die before he got to ravage the entire galaxy, even if he went unopposed. I'm guessing that his 'hunger' hit all new highs after he sapped the planet of Miralukas, so Telos, an entire planet with one Jedi seems to me like peanuts. Would he make it to the next place? I doubt it.

[Knights&Darths]

Oh yes, his hunger grew as much as his power did. Kreia says that it's only a matter of how many he kills before he falls, and she says that when the Jedi are dead, the Republic and the Sith themselves shall be next, that all life is doomed as long as he lives. Visas too says that if he is not stopped he'll grow strong enough to kill all life merely with his presence. That's what would've happened if the Exile had not stopped him. If there's no Force-sensitives left in the galaxy, that only makes him all the more free to attack as many systems as he wishes, unopposed, with ever faster pace, and greater reach in the Force.

[Albion72]

If you insist^^

But like I said, all of Kreia's manipulations would have mattered very little if Nihilus had not been stopped, and the Exile had the only means to do that.

The drill-instructor then demonstrates how you can't press the launch button when your hand is nailed to a wall.

In this instance, Nihilus is the knife, not the nuke button. Kreia can press the right buttons to achieve what she wants, but if Nihilus turned his power upon whatever planet she's on

Edited November 29, 2008 by Albion72

[refuse]

Were you around to hear Jediphiles theory on Nihilus and how he relates to the exile? there is a lot of character development there, if you have read it.

I assume you mean that Nihilus is supposed to be the physical manifestation of the Exile's former 'dark side' that grew after malachor, or something along those lines?