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Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO: Ideas and Discussion Part 1


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I must again respectfully disagree. IMO K1-K2 is not a catalyst. For example. Say Revan/Kreia/Exile DIDN'T know about the True Sith. Assume everything plays out how it does in the games (minus revan/exile leaving known space to fight True Sith, lets assume they don't know about them (whoa weird Deja Vu .). By the end of K1/K2, The Mandalorian War/Jedi Civil War are over with the Republic as the victors. 300 Years later, (according to Star Wars canon and this new MMO), the Sith would strike the Republic from seemingly nowhere. This was not effected in any way by the events of K1-K2. My point being, just because Revan knows theres a threat out there, doesn't mean the MMO that is taking place 300 years later is going to tie the story line up for KOTOR.

Except that you yourself have said that Revan's journey into the unknown was what kept the Sith from attacking for those 300 years. Based on what Bio has said I'm guessing that Revan is going to play a HUGE role in the MMO.

 

Yes, I have. BUT, what I stated in the quote that you... quoted... was an assumption. Which means its 50/50 chance it could be correct IF thats how it played out. I have also stated that Revan may NOT have fought the True Sith empire because maybe it was so strong at the time of K2 he simply had to wait for them to attack the Republic (even with Exile's help).

Admittedly it would seem impossible for Revan to have an affect on the Sith Empire given that He wanders in there as a paragon of the light side. The best I could see him pulling off would be Sparticus all over again (slave revolt that nearly toppled the roman empire) and this leaves the empire with significant rebuilding to do given their workforce was wiped out and they lost alot of assets putting the revolt down. Again this is just a possible scenario.

 

You believe because (canonically) he is light side, that he is not strong enough to face the empire? Is this correct? I'm not sure what you are saying :wub:.

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I must again respectfully disagree. IMO K1-K2 is not a catalyst. For example. Say Revan/Kreia/Exile DIDN'T know about the True Sith. Assume everything plays out how it does in the games (minus revan/exile leaving known space to fight True Sith, lets assume they don't know about them (whoa weird Deja Vu .). By the end of K1/K2, The Mandalorian War/Jedi Civil War are over with the Republic as the victors. 300 Years later, (according to Star Wars canon and this new MMO), the Sith would strike the Republic from seemingly nowhere. This was not effected in any way by the events of K1-K2. My point being, just because Revan knows theres a threat out there, doesn't mean the MMO that is taking place 300 years later is going to tie the story line up for KOTOR.

Except that you yourself have said that Revan's journey into the unknown was what kept the Sith from attacking for those 300 years. Based on what Bio has said I'm guessing that Revan is going to play a HUGE role in the MMO.

 

Yes, I have. BUT, what I stated in the quote that you... quoted... was an assumption. Which means its 50/50 chance it could be correct IF thats how it played out. I have also stated that Revan may NOT have fought the True Sith empire because maybe it was so strong at the time of K2 he simply had to wait for them to attack the Republic (even with Exile's help).

Admittedly it would seem impossible for Revan to have an affect on the Sith Empire given that He wanders in there as a paragon of the light side. The best I could see him pulling off would be Sparticus all over again (slave revolt that nearly toppled the roman empire) and this leaves the empire with significant rebuilding to do given their workforce was wiped out and they lost alot of assets putting the revolt down. Again this is just a possible scenario.

 

You believe because (canonically) he is light side, that he is not strong enough to face the empire? Is this correct? I'm not sure what you are saying :o.

I'm saying that for him to rise in power within the Sith empire he'd have to give himself over to the dark side or be REALLY GOOD at hiding his affiliation. I mean the entire Sith Society is based around using the dark side and the fact that in order to rise in the ranks you have to kill your predecessor. I don't think that Revan would be able to stay as a lightsider and have a significant impact on the Sith without either becoming a slave (and eventually leading a slave revolt) or somehow starting a grassroots resistance which wouldn't be very interesting in a game of any type... wait nix that last, it'd be interesting in a strategy game but not in a RPG.

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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I must again respectfully disagree. IMO K1-K2 is not a catalyst. For example. Say Revan/Kreia/Exile DIDN'T know about the True Sith. Assume everything plays out how it does in the games (minus revan/exile leaving known space to fight True Sith, lets assume they don't know about them (whoa weird Deja Vu .). By the end of K1/K2, The Mandalorian War/Jedi Civil War are over with the Republic as the victors. 300 Years later, (according to Star Wars canon and this new MMO), the Sith would strike the Republic from seemingly nowhere. This was not effected in any way by the events of K1-K2. My point being, just because Revan knows theres a threat out there, doesn't mean the MMO that is taking place 300 years later is going to tie the story line up for KOTOR.

Except that you yourself have said that Revan's journey into the unknown was what kept the Sith from attacking for those 300 years. Based on what Bio has said I'm guessing that Revan is going to play a HUGE role in the MMO.

 

Yes, I have. BUT, what I stated in the quote that you... quoted... was an assumption. Which means its 50/50 chance it could be correct IF thats how it played out. I have also stated that Revan may NOT have fought the True Sith empire because maybe it was so strong at the time of K2 he simply had to wait for them to attack the Republic (even with Exile's help).

Admittedly it would seem impossible for Revan to have an affect on the Sith Empire given that He wanders in there as a paragon of the light side. The best I could see him pulling off would be Sparticus all over again (slave revolt that nearly toppled the roman empire) and this leaves the empire with significant rebuilding to do given their workforce was wiped out and they lost alot of assets putting the revolt down. Again this is just a possible scenario.

 

You believe because (canonically) he is light side, that he is not strong enough to face the empire? Is this correct? I'm not sure what you are saying :o.

I'm saying that for him to rise in power within the Sith empire he'd have to give himself over to the dark side or be REALLY GOOD at hiding his affiliation. I mean the entire Sith Society is based around using the dark side and the fact that in order to rise in the ranks you have to kill your predecessor. I don't think that Revan would be able to stay as a lightsider and have a significant impact on the Sith without either becoming a slave (and eventually leading a slave revolt) or somehow starting a grassroots resistance which wouldn't be very interesting in a game of any type... wait nix that last, it'd be interesting in a strategy game but not in a RPG.

 

Well true, but thats assuming Revan wants to be come the emperor of the Sith Empire. We don't know what he wants to do tbh.

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Well true, but thats assuming Revan wants to be come the emperor of the Sith Empire. We don't know what he wants to do tbh.

well if he wants to impact the Sith empire he either has to get some position of power within the empire that would rely upon him using the dark side, or he has to somehow forment a rebellion within the Empire but that would probably not come to a head within his lifetime.

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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Well true, but thats assuming Revan wants to be come the emperor of the Sith Empire. We don't know what he wants to do tbh.

well if he wants to impact the Sith empire he either has to get some position of power within the empire that would rely upon him using the dark side, or he has to somehow forment a rebellion within the Empire but that would probably not come to a head within his lifetime.

 

Why does he "have to?"

 

He could do what you are saying, and infiltrate their ranks by falling to the Dark Side, or he could do something else. Impacting an empire from within is not the only option.

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Well true, but thats assuming Revan wants to be come the emperor of the Sith Empire. We don't know what he wants to do tbh.

well if he wants to impact the Sith empire he either has to get some position of power within the empire that would rely upon him using the dark side, or he has to somehow forment a rebellion within the Empire but that would probably not come to a head within his lifetime.

 

Why does he "have to?"

 

He could do what you are saying, and infiltrate their ranks by falling to the Dark Side, or he could do something else. Impacting an empire from within is not the only option.

if he is to have the impact that would cause the Sith to take an extra 300 years to attack the republic he'd have to either form an army of disgruntled slaves or become powerful enough that he has his own army to forment discontent. while the disgruntled slaves would probably allow him to remain Lightsided the Nobility line would probably end up with him stuck in a terrible spiral leading to his darkside tendancies coming back to haunt him.

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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Well true, but thats assuming Revan wants to be come the emperor of the Sith Empire. We don't know what he wants to do tbh.

well if he wants to impact the Sith empire he either has to get some position of power within the empire that would rely upon him using the dark side, or he has to somehow forment a rebellion within the Empire but that would probably not come to a head within his lifetime.

 

Why does he "have to?"

 

He could do what you are saying, and infiltrate their ranks by falling to the Dark Side, or he could do something else. Impacting an empire from within is not the only option.

if he is to have the impact that would cause the Sith to take an extra 300 years to attack the republic he'd have to either form an army of disgruntled slaves or become powerful enough that he has his own army to forment discontent. while the disgruntled slaves would probably allow him to remain Lightsided the Nobility line would probably end up with him stuck in a terrible spiral leading to his darkside tendancies coming back to haunt him.

 

Hmm.... He doesn't have to lead a slave rebellion in order to impact the Sith empire... Refer to my earlier theory.... Nor does he have to willingly fall to the DS again and get in some position of power (because the Sith probably wouldn't just hand over a position of power to Revan because they probably wouldn't know him too well.)

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Well true, but thats assuming Revan wants to be come the emperor of the Sith Empire. We don't know what he wants to do tbh.

well if he wants to impact the Sith empire he either has to get some position of power within the empire that would rely upon him using the dark side, or he has to somehow forment a rebellion within the Empire but that would probably not come to a head within his lifetime.

 

Why does he "have to?"

 

He could do what you are saying, and infiltrate their ranks by falling to the Dark Side, or he could do something else. Impacting an empire from within is not the only option.

if he is to have the impact that would cause the Sith to take an extra 300 years to attack the republic he'd have to either form an army of disgruntled slaves or become powerful enough that he has his own army to forment discontent. while the disgruntled slaves would probably allow him to remain Lightsided the Nobility line would probably end up with him stuck in a terrible spiral leading to his darkside tendancies coming back to haunt him.

 

Hmm.... He doesn't have to lead a slave rebellion in order to impact the Sith empire... Refer to my earlier theory.... Nor does he have to willingly fall to the DS again and get in some position of power (because the Sith probably wouldn't just hand over a position of power to Revan because they probably wouldn't know him too well.)

In general the way a sith organization works is that in order to move up in the ranks (at least at the rank where Revan would need to be to have a large enough impact) you kill the person above you. Generally wanton slaughter and the keeping of pleasure slaves is not conducive to rising in the sith ranks. Also I would expect a Lord to be able to sense the alignment of another Lord.

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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Well true, but thats assuming Revan wants to be come the emperor of the Sith Empire. We don't know what he wants to do tbh.

well if he wants to impact the Sith empire he either has to get some position of power within the empire that would rely upon him using the dark side, or he has to somehow forment a rebellion within the Empire but that would probably not come to a head within his lifetime.

 

Why does he "have to?"

 

He could do what you are saying, and infiltrate their ranks by falling to the Dark Side, or he could do something else. Impacting an empire from within is not the only option.

if he is to have the impact that would cause the Sith to take an extra 300 years to attack the republic he'd have to either form an army of disgruntled slaves or become powerful enough that he has his own army to forment discontent. while the disgruntled slaves would probably allow him to remain Lightsided the Nobility line would probably end up with him stuck in a terrible spiral leading to his darkside tendancies coming back to haunt him.

 

Hmm.... He doesn't have to lead a slave rebellion in order to impact the Sith empire... Refer to my earlier theory.... Nor does he have to willingly fall to the DS again and get in some position of power (because the Sith probably wouldn't just hand over a position of power to Revan because they probably wouldn't know him too well.)

In general the way a sith organization works is that in order to move up in the ranks (at least at the rank where Revan would need to be to have a large enough impact) you kill the person above you. Generally wanton slaughter and the keeping of pleasure slaves is not conducive to rising in the sith ranks. Also I would expect a Lord to be able to sense the alignment of another Lord.

 

Which is why he probably wouldn't want to fall to the DS again.

 

Does it make sense? Revan leads against the Mandalorians, then turns and attacks the Republic... Then his mind is re-wired and he helps the Republic, even AFTER remembering who he was before this "Jedi re-wiring thing". If he fell to the DS purposely and attacked the Republic to save it, why doesn't the Canon Revan go DS and finish his onslaught of hte Republic? Something else must have been at work in my opinion.

 

He must've realized he made an error somewhere along his judgment when he fell to the DS the first time. So I highly doubt that if he goes to fight the True Sith, he will fall to the Dark Side. This is because the aforementioned events. He fell to the Dark Side the first time, and ended up nearly destroying the Jedi and the Republic. He left decimation in his wake. He must have realized that one cannot simply fall to the Dark Side and then hope to do good, the Dark Side rules your destiny. Your lust and craving for power is all that matters.

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Well true, but thats assuming Revan wants to be come the emperor of the Sith Empire. We don't know what he wants to do tbh.

well if he wants to impact the Sith empire he either has to get some position of power within the empire that would rely upon him using the dark side, or he has to somehow forment a rebellion within the Empire but that would probably not come to a head within his lifetime.

 

Why does he "have to?"

 

He could do what you are saying, and infiltrate their ranks by falling to the Dark Side, or he could do something else. Impacting an empire from within is not the only option.

if he is to have the impact that would cause the Sith to take an extra 300 years to attack the republic he'd have to either form an army of disgruntled slaves or become powerful enough that he has his own army to forment discontent. while the disgruntled slaves would probably allow him to remain Lightsided the Nobility line would probably end up with him stuck in a terrible spiral leading to his darkside tendancies coming back to haunt him.

 

Hmm.... He doesn't have to lead a slave rebellion in order to impact the Sith empire... Refer to my earlier theory.... Nor does he have to willingly fall to the DS again and get in some position of power (because the Sith probably wouldn't just hand over a position of power to Revan because they probably wouldn't know him too well.)

In general the way a sith organization works is that in order to move up in the ranks (at least at the rank where Revan would need to be to have a large enough impact) you kill the person above you. Generally wanton slaughter and the keeping of pleasure slaves is not conducive to rising in the sith ranks. Also I would expect a Lord to be able to sense the alignment of another Lord.

 

Which is why he probably wouldn't want to fall to the DS again.

 

Does it make sense? Revan leads against the Mandalorians, then turns and attacks the Republic... Then his mind is re-wired and he helps the Republic, even AFTER remembering who he was before this "Jedi re-wiring thing". If he fell to the DS purposely and attacked the Republic to save it, why doesn't the Canon Revan go DS and finish his onslaught of hte Republic? Something else must have been at work in my opinion.

 

He must've realized he made an error somewhere along his judgment when he fell to the DS the first time. So I highly doubt that if he goes to fight the True Sith, he will fall to the Dark Side. This is because the aforementioned events. He fell to the Dark Side the first time, and ended up nearly destroying the Jedi and the Republic. He left decimation in his wake. He must have realized that one cannot simply fall to the Dark Side and then hope to do good, the Dark Side rules your destiny. Your lust and craving for power is all that matters.

And yet without either support from another unknown kingdom, or the Republic, Revan wouldn't have the influence or power base necessary to do significant damage to a society designed around power and war. It'd be like taking a German General and plopping him down in Siberia during world war two and expecting him to have ANY effect on the Russian War Effort.

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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Well true, but thats assuming Revan wants to be come the emperor of the Sith Empire. We don't know what he wants to do tbh.

well if he wants to impact the Sith empire he either has to get some position of power within the empire that would rely upon him using the dark side, or he has to somehow forment a rebellion within the Empire but that would probably not come to a head within his lifetime.

 

Why does he "have to?"

 

He could do what you are saying, and infiltrate their ranks by falling to the Dark Side, or he could do something else. Impacting an empire from within is not the only option.

if he is to have the impact that would cause the Sith to take an extra 300 years to attack the republic he'd have to either form an army of disgruntled slaves or become powerful enough that he has his own army to forment discontent. while the disgruntled slaves would probably allow him to remain Lightsided the Nobility line would probably end up with him stuck in a terrible spiral leading to his darkside tendancies coming back to haunt him.

 

Hmm.... He doesn't have to lead a slave rebellion in order to impact the Sith empire... Refer to my earlier theory.... Nor does he have to willingly fall to the DS again and get in some position of power (because the Sith probably wouldn't just hand over a position of power to Revan because they probably wouldn't know him too well.)

In general the way a sith organization works is that in order to move up in the ranks (at least at the rank where Revan would need to be to have a large enough impact) you kill the person above you. Generally wanton slaughter and the keeping of pleasure slaves is not conducive to rising in the sith ranks. Also I would expect a Lord to be able to sense the alignment of another Lord.

 

Which is why he probably wouldn't want to fall to the DS again.

 

Does it make sense? Revan leads against the Mandalorians, then turns and attacks the Republic... Then his mind is re-wired and he helps the Republic, even AFTER remembering who he was before this "Jedi re-wiring thing". If he fell to the DS purposely and attacked the Republic to save it, why doesn't the Canon Revan go DS and finish his onslaught of hte Republic? Something else must have been at work in my opinion.

 

He must've realized he made an error somewhere along his judgment when he fell to the DS the first time. So I highly doubt that if he goes to fight the True Sith, he will fall to the Dark Side. This is because the aforementioned events. He fell to the Dark Side the first time, and ended up nearly destroying the Jedi and the Republic. He left decimation in his wake. He must have realized that one cannot simply fall to the Dark Side and then hope to do good, the Dark Side rules your destiny. Your lust and craving for power is all that matters.

And yet without either support from another unknown kingdom, or the Republic, Revan wouldn't have the influence or power base necessary to do significant damage to a society designed around power and war. It'd be like taking a German General and plopping him down in Siberia during world war two and expecting him to have ANY effect on the Russian War Effort.

Not sure any of this has to do with the MMO. Based on what Bioware's VP said this MMO is intended to have a time frame where the sith and jedi are constantly fighting. That means that you wont have Revan coming back having destroyed the Sith. Also, all this talk about the "True Sith" Kreia said the "true sith" was a believe not a people, and that is part of Obsidian's story line anyway and Bioware will ikely not use it. The new MMO is just going to be a game where you get to decide over time between LS and DS. And I agree that the reference to the MMO being KoTOR3-12 is a reference to how big the game content will be, since Bioware is saying there is more game content in TOR then all their other games put together.

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Well true, but thats assuming Revan wants to be come the emperor of the Sith Empire. We don't know what he wants to do tbh.

well if he wants to impact the Sith empire he either has to get some position of power within the empire that would rely upon him using the dark side, or he has to somehow forment a rebellion within the Empire but that would probably not come to a head within his lifetime.

 

Why does he "have to?"

 

He could do what you are saying, and infiltrate their ranks by falling to the Dark Side, or he could do something else. Impacting an empire from within is not the only option.

if he is to have the impact that would cause the Sith to take an extra 300 years to attack the republic he'd have to either form an army of disgruntled slaves or become powerful enough that he has his own army to forment discontent. while the disgruntled slaves would probably allow him to remain Lightsided the Nobility line would probably end up with him stuck in a terrible spiral leading to his darkside tendancies coming back to haunt him.

 

Hmm.... He doesn't have to lead a slave rebellion in order to impact the Sith empire... Refer to my earlier theory.... Nor does he have to willingly fall to the DS again and get in some position of power (because the Sith probably wouldn't just hand over a position of power to Revan because they probably wouldn't know him too well.)

In general the way a sith organization works is that in order to move up in the ranks (at least at the rank where Revan would need to be to have a large enough impact) you kill the person above you. Generally wanton slaughter and the keeping of pleasure slaves is not conducive to rising in the sith ranks. Also I would expect a Lord to be able to sense the alignment of another Lord.

 

Which is why he probably wouldn't want to fall to the DS again.

 

Does it make sense? Revan leads against the Mandalorians, then turns and attacks the Republic... Then his mind is re-wired and he helps the Republic, even AFTER remembering who he was before this "Jedi re-wiring thing". If he fell to the DS purposely and attacked the Republic to save it, why doesn't the Canon Revan go DS and finish his onslaught of hte Republic? Something else must have been at work in my opinion.

 

He must've realized he made an error somewhere along his judgment when he fell to the DS the first time. So I highly doubt that if he goes to fight the True Sith, he will fall to the Dark Side. This is because the aforementioned events. He fell to the Dark Side the first time, and ended up nearly destroying the Jedi and the Republic. He left decimation in his wake. He must have realized that one cannot simply fall to the Dark Side and then hope to do good, the Dark Side rules your destiny. Your lust and craving for power is all that matters.

And yet without either support from another unknown kingdom, or the Republic, Revan wouldn't have the influence or power base necessary to do significant damage to a society designed around power and war. It'd be like taking a German General and plopping him down in Siberia during world war two and expecting him to have ANY effect on the Russian War Effort.

Not sure any of this has to do with the MMO. Based on what Bioware's VP said this MMO is intended to have a time frame where the sith and jedi are constantly fighting. That means that you wont have Revan coming back having destroyed the Sith. Also, all this talk about the "True Sith" Kreia said the "true sith" was a believe not a people, and that is part of Obsidian's story line anyway and Bioware will ikely not use it. The new MMO is just going to be a game where you get to decide over time between LS and DS. And I agree that the reference to the MMO being KoTOR3-12 is a reference to how big the game content will be, since Bioware is saying there is more game content in TOR then all their other games put together.

 

True. However, just because Revan didn't come back having destroyed the Sith doesn't mean the Sith weren't beaten. In almost all Star Wars stories, the Sith make their appearance. Beating them simply makes them have to rebuild.

 

Kreia said that the machines of Revan/Malak and the people you fight in KOTOR II aren't the Sith, and that it is a belief yes, but then she goes on to say that the Sith, the True Sith, are out there rebuilding their empire on the edge of known space.

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True. However, just because Revan didn't come back having destroyed the Sith doesn't mean the Sith weren't beaten. In almost all Star Wars stories, the Sith make their appearance. Beating them simply makes them have to rebuild.

 

Kreia said that the machines of Revan/Malak and the people you fight in KOTOR II aren't the Sith, and that it is a belief yes, but then she goes on to say that the Sith, the True Sith, are out there rebuilding their empire on the edge of known space.

This seems to be the common thought. that the games have to go back to Revan or the Exile. I don't agree. If that had to happen then KoTOR2 would have followed Revan, but instead they created the Exile, and everyone is so attached to that creation. 95% of everyone would happily follow the exploits of "Jedi X" through the would of KoTOR3, and the other 5% would grumble about it and play it anyway. Then everyone would love this "Jedi X" that they created for KoTOR3 and say we had to go back to Revan, Exlie and Jedi X in KoTOR4.

 

Personally I would like a game that followed Exar Kun, or a Jedi that battles him.

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True. However, just because Revan didn't come back having destroyed the Sith doesn't mean the Sith weren't beaten. In almost all Star Wars stories, the Sith make their appearance. Beating them simply makes them have to rebuild.

 

Kreia said that the machines of Revan/Malak and the people you fight in KOTOR II aren't the Sith, and that it is a belief yes, but then she goes on to say that the Sith, the True Sith, are out there rebuilding their empire on the edge of known space.

This seems to be the common thought. that the games have to go back to Revan or the Exile. I don't agree. If that had to happen then KoTOR2 would have followed Revan, but instead they created the Exile, and everyone is so attached to that creation. 95% of everyone would happily follow the exploits of "Jedi X" through the would of KoTOR3, and the other 5% would grumble about it and play it anyway. Then everyone would love this "Jedi X" that they created for KoTOR3 and say we had to go back to Revan, Exlie and Jedi X in KoTOR4.

 

Personally I would like a game that followed Exar Kun, or a Jedi that battles him.

 

But the Exile's experiences had direct ties to Revan. K1 and K2 have related plotlines that lead up to one grand enemy and one grand climax, which we don't have yet.

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But the Exile's experiences had direct ties to Revan. K1 and K2 have related plotlines that lead up to one grand enemy and one grand climax, which we don't have yet.

Which just proves my point that players would happily follow a new character, especially if they tie the games together in a similar manner. And if they are smart, which I bet they are, they will never tie off the storyline.

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But the Exile's experiences had direct ties to Revan. K1 and K2 have related plotlines that lead up to one grand enemy and one grand climax, which we don't have yet.

Which just proves my point that players would happily follow a new character, especially if they tie the games together in a similar manner. And if they are smart, which I bet they are, they will never tie off the storyline.

 

It would be the exact opposite of smart to not tie of a storyline.

 

IMO, they need to tie off K1-K2s, with a K3, then start an entirely new trilogy or something following some new characters in a different time setting... and these games can take place any time period they want them to take place in... Much like the original movies. They finished the plot of IV V and VI, and then came back 20 years later and started the trilogy that explained it all... it took 20 years, but they still did it.

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But the Exile's experiences had direct ties to Revan. K1 and K2 have related plotlines that lead up to one grand enemy and one grand climax, which we don't have yet.

Which just proves my point that players would happily follow a new character, especially if they tie the games together in a similar manner. And if they are smart, which I bet they are, they will never tie off the storyline.

 

It would be the exact opposite of smart to not tie of a storyline.

 

IMO, they need to tie off K1-K2s, with a K3, then start an entirely new trilogy or something following some new characters in a different time setting... and these games can take place any time period they want them to take place in... Much like the original movies. They finished the plot of IV V and VI, and then came back 20 years later and started the trilogy that explained it all... it took 20 years, but they still did it.

But there is really no reason to tie it off and kill the following. If they dont tie it off the following will continue. It is not that it is not smart. Might bother some people, but they will still follow it, always hoping to have an end. Really Star Wars is good at that. everything in star Wars eventually ties to Luke Skywalker and the original movie trilogy. Arguably even KoTOR does, in that the lore that surrounds KoTOR has developed from the books that spun off from the movies. Yes it is much more developed, but still there.

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Tying off plot lines is a double edged blade, yes it answers question and makes the player feel accomplished, but then on the other hand people will buy a game based totally on the fact that X is going to be explained within. However if you leave plot lines dangling too long or put to much work into them you'll end up being forced to make something like MGS4. Not saying MGS4 is a bad game, nor that it is unplayable if you haven't played the previous games, but somebody who played all the previous games will have a MUCH better grasp of whats going on. You practically need to take a class to get the full backstory for the game, and Kojima tied up so many plot lines in a haphazard way that disciples of the franchise who had been faithful for years we a bit miffed because some parts of the ending didn't fit with what happened ingame and yadda yadda yadda.

 

To say the Exile's experiences are directly tied to Revan is a bit of a falsehood. The exile while a Knight was also a general under Revan, this doesn't necessarily mean that they sat and had tea together. Also the Exiles philosophy differed from Revans as Revan went on to make himself a warlord and try to conquer the known galaxy, while the exile came back, argued with the council and left. they are two different characters, they do intertwine a little but so does my life and that of my boss.

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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Obsidian,

 

All I ask is that you equal the social capabilities that the original Star Wars Galaxies offered amongst a plethora of "job" / "professional" opportunities (combat and non-combat). Don't compare or use WoW in any planning because WoW straight up sucks. Instances are for retards and not inherent in any SW discussion.

 

An entirely discoverable / movable world meaning every mountain can be climbed; if technology allows it, maybe even a world like map where if you go off the right side of the map, you are now on the left side of the map.

 

As far as content, I was under the impression (before reading some of your posts) that your MMO was not a sequel to your earlier games but just based in this time era. I personally wouldn't mind the story line being even further back to where we get to see those Sith / Jedi who had amazing light saber skills and make the rest of us look like child's play.

 

Also, a problem that grew from SWG, was a stuck storyline. I don't know how to fix that without making the main storyline put into instances (which I abhor); that would mean as new content to the storyline comes out, older content is thrown into instances to allow newb's to catch up and not feel left out (though I wouldn't care because I don't miss the civil war since I was born afterward).

 

I would also enjoy a space part of the game, allowing for an FPS style game play similar to what SWG did; but I only played it after everyone quit so lag may be a problem there which could thwart my ideal part of the game.

 

Just a reiteration, the bigger the maps, the more maps (planets / space), the better social structure, the plethora of professions and you will have won me from SWGEmu to your game.

 

I expect to have a bunch of updates after the game has been created because of the major whinning and complaining of balancing combat professions. Hopefully I won't be one of those agitators.

 

I respect y'all for picking up this heavy burden and I hope to see a great game produced by y'all.

 

BTW, Free to play won't hurt either :(. Though GMShops kill that and ruin it for non-GMshoppers.

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Obsidian,

 

All I ask is that you equal the social capabilities that the original Star Wars Galaxies offered amongst a plethora of "job" / "professional" opportunities (combat and non-combat). Don't compare or use WoW in any planning because WoW straight up sucks. Instances are for retards and not inherent in any SW discussion.

 

An entirely discoverable / movable world meaning every mountain can be climbed; if technology allows it, maybe even a world like map where if you go off the right side of the map, you are now on the left side of the map.

 

As far as content, I was under the impression (before reading some of your posts) that your MMO was not a sequel to your earlier games but just based in this time era. I personally wouldn't mind the story line being even further back to where we get to see those Sith / Jedi who had amazing light saber skills and make the rest of us look like child's play.

 

Also, a problem that grew from SWG, was a stuck storyline. I don't know how to fix that without making the main storyline put into instances (which I abhor); that would mean as new content to the storyline comes out, older content is thrown into instances to allow newb's to catch up and not feel left out (though I wouldn't care because I don't miss the civil war since I was born afterward).

 

I would also enjoy a space part of the game, allowing for an FPS style game play similar to what SWG did; but I only played it after everyone quit so lag may be a problem there which could thwart my ideal part of the game.

 

Just a reiteration, the bigger the maps, the more maps (planets / space), the better social structure, the plethora of professions and you will have won me from SWGEmu to your game.

 

I expect to have a bunch of updates after the game has been created because of the major whinning and complaining of balancing combat professions. Hopefully I won't be one of those agitators.

 

I respect y'all for picking up this heavy burden and I hope to see a great game produced by y'all.

 

BTW, Free to play won't hurt either :). Though GMShops kill that and ruin it for non-GMshoppers.

several things

1) Obsidian is not making the MMO, Bioware is in conjunction of with LucasArts

2) Having played SWG, I can say that while it had a good crafting system, the basic gameplay about how to earn money and such was lacking. Rather than actually play the game the way to get money was to set up harvesters on a planet, and log out. Log back in a few days layer and craft whatever you needed, then sell it on the market, wash rinse repeat.

3) most games have a gameworld where you can get most anywhere, WoW's original continents didn't because the creators took various short cuts and visual tricks to get things looking just right (which is why they don't allow Flying mounts in the old world).

4) instancing a section of the game is probably going to happen. City of Heroes did it for most of the player content (the missions), Guild wars had EVERYTHING be instanced, and WoW used the instance so that more than one group of people could experience a dungeon at the same time. If you don't do instances you are either going to have to create a MASSIVE number of areas that the player can get fairly good gear, Or you are going to find that the entrance to most dungeons are PVP killing grounds that drive off most of the PVE crowd.

5) while you may think that WoW is terrible, you don't have a majority opinion. My guess is that Bioware is going to make TOR partly in WoW's image because WoW is so wildly successful. Part of the reason WoW is successful is that you can actually get somewhere in 2 hours time. When I played SWG, it took me forever to hit the max level in any particular profession. If we were to make SWG how you seem to want it, I think you'd end up with an MMO looking more like EvE online rather than something that a casual market can get into. And while EvE seems to have a pretty good time for those who are REALLY into it, it seems more a second job than a game (and the politics in that game are serious, a guild spent 1 1/2 freaking years planning and executing the downfall of one of the most successful guilds in the game!).

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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Obsidian,

 

All I ask is that you equal the social capabilities that the original Star Wars Galaxies offered amongst a plethora of "job" / "professional" opportunities (combat and non-combat). Don't compare or use WoW in any planning because WoW straight up sucks. Instances are for retards and not inherent in any SW discussion.

 

An entirely discoverable / movable world meaning every mountain can be climbed; if technology allows it, maybe even a world like map where if you go off the right side of the map, you are now on the left side of the map.

 

As far as content, I was under the impression (before reading some of your posts) that your MMO was not a sequel to your earlier games but just based in this time era. I personally wouldn't mind the story line being even further back to where we get to see those Sith / Jedi who had amazing light saber skills and make the rest of us look like child's play.

 

Also, a problem that grew from SWG, was a stuck storyline. I don't know how to fix that without making the main storyline put into instances (which I abhor); that would mean as new content to the storyline comes out, older content is thrown into instances to allow newb's to catch up and not feel left out (though I wouldn't care because I don't miss the civil war since I was born afterward).

 

I would also enjoy a space part of the game, allowing for an FPS style game play similar to what SWG did; but I only played it after everyone quit so lag may be a problem there which could thwart my ideal part of the game.

 

Just a reiteration, the bigger the maps, the more maps (planets / space), the better social structure, the plethora of professions and you will have won me from SWGEmu to your game.

 

I expect to have a bunch of updates after the game has been created because of the major whinning and complaining of balancing combat professions. Hopefully I won't be one of those agitators.

 

I respect y'all for picking up this heavy burden and I hope to see a great game produced by y'all.

 

BTW, Free to play won't hurt either :). Though GMShops kill that and ruin it for non-GMshoppers.

several things

1) Obsidian is not making the MMO, Bioware is in conjunction of with LucasArts

2) Having played SWG, I can say that while it had a good crafting system, the basic gameplay about how to earn money and such was lacking. Rather than actually play the game the way to get money was to set up harvesters on a planet, and log out. Log back in a few days layer and craft whatever you needed, then sell it on the market, wash rinse repeat.

3) most games have a gameworld where you can get most anywhere, WoW's original continents didn't because the creators took various short cuts and visual tricks to get things looking just right (which is why they don't allow Flying mounts in the old world).

4) instancing a section of the game is probably going to happen. City of Heroes did it for most of the player content (the missions), Guild wars had EVERYTHING be instanced, and WoW used the instance so that more than one group of people could experience a dungeon at the same time. If you don't do instances you are either going to have to create a MASSIVE number of areas that the player can get fairly good gear, Or you are going to find that the entrance to most dungeons are PVP killing grounds that drive off most of the PVE crowd.

5) while you may think that WoW is terrible, you don't have a majority opinion. My guess is that Bioware is going to make TOR partly in WoW's image because WoW is so wildly successful. Part of the reason WoW is successful is that you can actually get somewhere in 2 hours time. When I played SWG, it took me forever to hit the max level in any particular profession. If we were to make SWG how you seem to want it, I think you'd end up with an MMO looking more like EvE online rather than something that a casual market can get into. And while EvE seems to have a pretty good time for those who are REALLY into it, it seems more a second job than a game (and the politics in that game are serious, a guild spent 1 1/2 freaking years planning and executing the downfall of one of the most successful guilds in the game!).

Obviously I still have ignorance in the subject.

 

However, if in two hours time you couldn't become productive in your experience gain then I don't know what to say. Dathomir was great for xp and credits if you were buffed.

 

Also. Star Wars doesn't need instances for equipment. That's why crafting is important. Who gives a rip about the monotony. It's essential and needed. Instances, as I stated should only be used for the story line; not for actually getting some (if your lucky to get that) equipment. But in all honestly, instances take more than two hours in WoW so how can you say you can get somewhere in two hours on WoW but not SWG?

 

What do you need to worry about PVP and PVE for? You can't get attacked unless you are an overt Rebel or Imperial; kind of an irrelevant discussion. There's always parties going out for krayt hunts or to slaughter camps of force sensitives or the Imperial Prison, Rebel hideouts, player owned bases (which btw is also one of the best PvP to be part of).

 

From getting anywhere on the map, most do not. WoW (even in the burning crusade expansion; sure you can fly but not all terrain that should be climable was). Lineage II, Archlord, Fiesta, Grenada Espada, SWG Kashyyk Expansion (just to name a few) do not have an all traversible terrain.

 

What's wrong with the economy that you mentioned? I'm not supposed to find credits on a bantha or a tusken. They don't even use them nor would it be something they would carry for keep sake being it has no value to them. So set up the harvesters, sell the resources and get rich. With the economy based on 3 credits per unit on low-average minerals and about 10 for 800+, the economy didn't have major inflation problems. I doubt even the Chinese credit bots could have impacted it to be anything different. Mission terminals pumped out 3k-9k a mission which is done in a fraction of the time it took to do resource harvesting; so what is the problem?

 

I was the casual market when SWG came out; and I still am. Being like that chick from France who leveled from 60 - 70 in what, two hours or day or something? No thank you.

 

I don't see how I could be wanting something that the casual market doesn't get into. Social atmosphere outweighed the grinders and allowed for a new type of game for those who aren't in a hurry to become the best on their server. Not to mention house decor, space ship decor if you got a yacht. What part of the game you want is actually role play and not combat orientated?

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Obviously I still have ignorance in the subject.

 

However, if in two hours time you couldn't become productive in your experience gain then I don't know what to say. Dathomir was great for xp and credits if you were buffed.

 

Also. Star Wars doesn't need instances for equipment. That's why crafting is important. Who gives a rip about the monotony. It's essential and needed. Instances, as I stated should only be used for the story line; not for actually getting some (if your lucky to get that) equipment. But in all honestly, instances take more than two hours in WoW so how can you say you can get somewhere in two hours on WoW but not SWG?

Maybe in the origional WoW but there are currently several instances I've done in less than an hour. And the Black Morass from BC was timed at I think 1:27. I think that you suffer from only playing one game and assuming that because it was way X in SWG it will be that way in TOR. This isn't true, the Dev teams are entirely different from one another, and they have a different design philosophy.
What do you need to worry about PVP and PVE for? You can't get attacked unless you are an overt Rebel or Imperial; kind of an irrelevant discussion. There's always parties going out for krayt hunts or to slaughter camps of force sensitives or the Imperial Prison, Rebel hideouts, player owned bases (which btw is also one of the best PvP to be part of).
this is again where you suffer from only having played one game. Basic gameplay lession for most MMO's that I've played: There are several types of servers (well in WoW and EQ at least) PVE PVP RP and PVPRP. Each server has different basic rules, an RP server you have to stay in character for those who get really into the game (I'm not sure how many servers are RP for WoW at the moment), but the basics rules for player vs player combat depend on if you choose a PVP or a PVE server. In WoW (like most MMO's) there is no such thing as a Covert member of either side, you are either Alliance or Horde. Now on PVE servers this means that you can only get attacked in areas that you don't control (An alliance member in the middle of the Undercity would be eaten for breakfast) or specifically PVP zones. Once you attack another player in one of these zones you get flagged for pvp and can get your butt kicked all over the school yard for a while until you get away. However more realistically, there's PVP servers, where any territory flagged as "Contested" is considered open territory for PVP. This often leads to a 13 year old running around in lower zones attacking players 40+ levels his junior just to get his ego inflated. But this self corrects when the players he's praying on call guildies and a small pvp war starts (usually in Stranglethorn Vale in WoW). It's MORE than likely that the Developers at Bioware will follow the standard and have open affiliation rather than the PvP system in SWG (which IIRC was insane because your credit only counted on the deathblow which could be delivered by a passerby). Blizzard has spent 4 years perfecting the system for PvP and awarding gear for it that's balanced to that particular playstyle. I'm not saying TOR will mirror the system blizzard has in place, but it's more likely that Sith and Jedi will always be known who's who.
From getting anywhere on the map, most do not. WoW (even in the burning crusade expansion; sure you can fly but not all terrain that should be climable was). Lineage II, Archlord, Fiesta, Grenada Espada, SWG Kashyyk Expansion (just to name a few) do not have an all traversible terrain.
Again making a world where the geometry will let you roam over it completely would probably cause alot of the terrain to be flat. It's doubtful that TOR will have terrain you can get to (some of the best areas in wow are actually reached though wierd jumping/blinking/slowfalling combonations, like the upsidedown sinners and Old Ironforge.) Also this would disallow areas like GM and Developer playgrounds where the devs and GM's could flex their power a little (rumors in WoW state that theres actually a little room on GM island where particularly bad players are placed to get them to cool off).
What's wrong with the economy that you mentioned? I'm not supposed to find credits on a bantha or a tusken. They don't even use them nor would it be something they would carry for keep sake being it has no value to them. So set up the harvesters, sell the resources and get rich. With the economy based on 3 credits per unit on low-average minerals and about 10 for 800+, the economy didn't have major inflation problems. I doubt even the Chinese credit bots could have impacted it to be anything different. Mission terminals pumped out 3k-9k a mission which is done in a fraction of the time it took to do resource harvesting; so what is the problem?

The problem is that most people won't want a game where they, in order to be successful enough, have to rely on harvesters to get them stuff while they work or sleep or whatever offline. They want to be in the game and (usually) fighting, or socializing. I have yet to meet a person who said "WOOOOHOOOO! I get to play a game that only requires me to log in once a week to collect my materials and actually try to make some money! AND I get to pay 15 bucks a month for this! YAY!" Because while Rep grinding, material grinding, and raiding is what make the world go round in WoW, it's usually pretty easy to earn a fast buck (my blacksmith can create a single item that sells for 100g pretty easily in WOTLK) and quest. I'm a little hazy on the quests in SWG but I don't remember them being very active. Usually it was run for half an hour to find location of mob, kill 10 mobs, run back. In WoW they kinda miniaturized the world to a degree to allow for fast travel. You can easily get from one point to any other within at least a half hour (maybe a little more if your a level one trying to reach Shattrath in Outland) but Blizz being masters at figuring out what to do, usually group several quests together so that you run out and kill 30 things and complete 5 quests at the same time.

I was the casual market when SWG came out; and I still am. Being like that chick from France who leveled from 60 - 70 in what, two hours or day or something? No thank you.

 

I don't see how I could be wanting something that the casual market doesn't get into. Social atmosphere outweighed the grinders and allowed for a new type of game for those who aren't in a hurry to become the best on their server. Not to mention house decor, space ship decor if you got a yacht. What part of the game you want is actually role play and not combat orientated?

The point is Balance. If I wanted a game that let me customize everything and was based around the Social aspect of it, I'd play Second Life (entirely user generated.) There are a few things you have to understand about ANY game, people will always take it to far (Asians are particularly bad about this, I've heard of one case where a man murdered another man for not giving an ingame item, another where a guy died at a computer console from not eating or drinking during a 36ish hour marathon of Starcraft... Divorces between people including characters ingame being fought over in custody battles) but there are also people who want a game where they can climb on, be relatively powerful and not have to play more than a few hours a day, and don't want to have to wait a LONG time for their mats to be ready at hand to raise their crafting skill...

 

The problems with SWG was that it de-emphasized the primary way most MMO's operate (fighting) in favor of crafting and entertainment jobs that would pay more per hour and would lead to a better chance at unlocking the holy grail (Jedi). When you earn money by putting together a macro to ask for tips and then just leave your character standing there playing a song for umpteen hours, rather than go out and actually have to actively participate, you have a SERIOUS problem in how the game works. Now I only played three months of SWG right after launch, but I've also played at least a years worth of City of Heroes which is a completly different game from either SWG and WoW. In CoH you don't have crafting or any extreme amounts of depth in how the game works. You just fly around the city doing instanced missions with friends. CoH actually doesn't tell you the exact numbers because the devs thought that would be too much math for players to get into (they turned out to be wrong after WoW did the exact opposite). In fact alot of things that CoH emphasized (uniqueness and simplicity of interface) and deemphasized are the exact opposite of the way WoW and most other MMO's work. COH doesn't have gear or end game raiding. Just missions you run that give you stupid amounts of money (when an actual economy was introduced items sold for numbers upwards of 1 million of the ingame currency), that would end after you finished them. Some things CoH got somewhat wrong (the lack of endgeme or things to do other than kill stuff) have been slowly corrected by NCsoft, and Cryptic in the Champions MMO (upcoming). But one thing I think CoH got right was the sheer amount of variations you could put into a costume or powerset that made it YOURS, where as in most other games the players have to use cookie cutter builds and reach benchmarks before they are actually used in Raids or other endgame content.

 

Remember MMO's are Games first, Social tools second. Lives last.

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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Tying off plot lines is a double edged blade, yes it answers question and makes the player feel accomplished, but then on the other hand people will buy a game based totally on the fact that X is going to be explained within. However if you leave plot lines dangling too long or put to much work into them you'll end up being forced to make something like MGS4. Not saying MGS4 is a bad game, nor that it is unplayable if you haven't played the previous games, but somebody who played all the previous games will have a MUCH better grasp of whats going on. You practically need to take a class to get the full backstory for the game, and Kojima tied up so many plot lines in a haphazard way that disciples of the franchise who had been faithful for years we a bit miffed because some parts of the ending didn't fit with what happened ingame and yadda yadda yadda.

 

To say the Exile's experiences are directly tied to Revan is a bit of a falsehood. The exile while a Knight was also a general under Revan, this doesn't necessarily mean that they sat and had tea together. Also the Exiles philosophy differed from Revans as Revan went on to make himself a warlord and try to conquer the known galaxy, while the exile came back, argued with the council and left. they are two different characters, they do intertwine a little but so does my life and that of my boss.

 

IIRC the Exile was also a good friend of Revan's next to Malak, hence why the Exile was given a really good position within the army. And yes they tie to each other, they both leave known space to fight the threat together. Exile seeks out Revan for a reason, if the Exile didn't really care about the experiences he had with Revan, then he probably wouldn't have bothered to go find him and help.

 

I'm going to stay out of this Calax-Vasheir argument is I am still not completely sure what they are arguing about.

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Tying off plot lines is a double edged blade, yes it answers question and makes the player feel accomplished, but then on the other hand people will buy a game based totally on the fact that X is going to be explained within. However if you leave plot lines dangling too long or put to much work into them you'll end up being forced to make something like MGS4. Not saying MGS4 is a bad game, nor that it is unplayable if you haven't played the previous games, but somebody who played all the previous games will have a MUCH better grasp of whats going on. You practically need to take a class to get the full backstory for the game, and Kojima tied up so many plot lines in a haphazard way that disciples of the franchise who had been faithful for years we a bit miffed because some parts of the ending didn't fit with what happened ingame and yadda yadda yadda.

 

To say the Exile's experiences are directly tied to Revan is a bit of a falsehood. The exile while a Knight was also a general under Revan, this doesn't necessarily mean that they sat and had tea together. Also the Exiles philosophy differed from Revans as Revan went on to make himself a warlord and try to conquer the known galaxy, while the exile came back, argued with the council and left. they are two different characters, they do intertwine a little but so does my life and that of my boss.

 

IIRC the Exile was also a good friend of Revan's next to Malak, hence why the Exile was given a really good position within the army. And yes they tie to each other, they both leave known space to fight the threat together. Exile seeks out Revan for a reason, if the Exile didn't really care about the experiences he had with Revan, then he probably wouldn't have bothered to go find him and help.

 

I'm going to stay out of this Calax-Vasheir argument is I am still not completely sure what they are arguing about.

Game mechanics and the fact he has SWG (which was a BROKEN game at launch and got even more broken, so everyone who played it left, then they changed it into somthing that might be playable which alienated most of the remaining playerbase) as the paragon of MMO's

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

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Tying off plot lines is a double edged blade, yes it answers question and makes the player feel accomplished, but then on the other hand people will buy a game based totally on the fact that X is going to be explained within. However if you leave plot lines dangling too long or put to much work into them you'll end up being forced to make something like MGS4. Not saying MGS4 is a bad game, nor that it is unplayable if you haven't played the previous games, but somebody who played all the previous games will have a MUCH better grasp of whats going on. You practically need to take a class to get the full backstory for the game, and Kojima tied up so many plot lines in a haphazard way that disciples of the franchise who had been faithful for years we a bit miffed because some parts of the ending didn't fit with what happened ingame and yadda yadda yadda.

 

To say the Exile's experiences are directly tied to Revan is a bit of a falsehood. The exile while a Knight was also a general under Revan, this doesn't necessarily mean that they sat and had tea together. Also the Exiles philosophy differed from Revans as Revan went on to make himself a warlord and try to conquer the known galaxy, while the exile came back, argued with the council and left. they are two different characters, they do intertwine a little but so does my life and that of my boss.

 

IIRC the Exile was also a good friend of Revan's next to Malak, hence why the Exile was given a really good position within the army. And yes they tie to each other, they both leave known space to fight the threat together. Exile seeks out Revan for a reason, if the Exile didn't really care about the experiences he had with Revan, then he probably wouldn't have bothered to go find him and help.

 

I'm going to stay out of this Calax-Vasheir argument is I am still not completely sure what they are arguing about.

Game mechanics and the fact he has SWG (which was a BROKEN game at launch and got even more broken, so everyone who played it left, then they changed it into somthing that might be playable which alienated most of the remaining playerbase) as the paragon of MMO's

 

IMO, PlanetSide failed worse, but its made by the same company.

 

Well no doubt, they screwed up with a potentially epic Star Wars MMO. They should've packed more development time, and actually listened to what the players were wanting to see in the game. But whatever, same can be said about most games out there.

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