man...(spoilers)

[Beastmode]

***SPOILERS***

 

 

Is it just me or does anyone else feel like Kreia really didn't deserve to die at the end.... I so wish it was Atris instead(like it was meant to be if you were LS i hear but got cut)

 

Kreia was relatively neutral throughout, and even at the end in my opinion. Look at it this way...she wanted the death of the force which would have killed many many people(it was quoted in the game by Atris i believe) because you had to be very powerful to resist being killed without the force(all the masters that Kreia killed were not powerful enough to live without the force thats why they died at the Dantooine Enclave if you played LS) This was a dark side trait because it would kill so many people...but here philosophy, i feel, was very LS. She wanted the death of the force because it was causing so much pain around the galaxy and causing many causalities like Telos during the Jedi Civil war just because of philosophies that sith and jedi faught for, and she did not want this. She believed that even though many people would die in the process, the people that would survive could maybe start a new life without the force and live much more peacefully(there would still be fighting but at least it would not be on such a scale to where entire planets were destroyed over philosophies.)

 

Anyone else feel the same way :D

[Darth Hades]

Is it just me or does anyone else feel like Kreia really didn't deserve to die at the end.... I so wish it was Atris instead(like it was meant to be if you were LS i hear but got cut)

 

 

Not sure how accurate this bit about Atris is, even with restored content, I believe LS or DS, Kreia is still the final boss

 

Kreia was relatively neutral throughout, and even at the end in my opinion. Look at it this way...she wanted the death of the force which would have killed many many people(it was quoted in the game by Atris i believe) because you had to be very powerful to resist being killed without the force(all the masters that Kreia killed were not powerful enough to live without the force thats why they died at the Dantooine Enclave if you played LS)

 

Had Kreia's ambition of bringing the "death of the Force" succeeded, then it is not just people, Jedi or non who would die, everyone and everything in the Galaxy would become completely lifeless. "The force is an energy field created by all living things that surrounds us, penetrates and binds the Galaxy together" ~ Obi-Wan, whether you are a force sensitive or not doesn't matter, everything would die.

 

This was a dark side trait because it would kill so many people...but here philosophy, i feel, was very LS. She wanted the death of the force because it was causing so much pain around the galaxy and causing many causalities like Telos during the Jedi Civil war just because of philosophies that sith and jedi faught for, and she did not want this. She believed that even though many people would die in the process, the people that would survive could maybe start a new life without the force and live much more peacefully(there would still be fighting but at least it would not be on such a scale to where entire planets were destroyed over philosophies.)

 

You are a little misguided here, Kreia did not want the death of the force because it was causing the Galaxy so much pain, Kreia wanted the death of the force so that nobody who is touched by the Force, would ever have the pain of losing it, like Kreia and the Exile did.

 

There is no real "noble" cause in Kreia actions, she merely manipulated events so that she could reap the benefits of the outcome, or to push the events furthur. Even Kreia knew that you cannot stop war and planetary destructions by "killing the Force", Kreia only had 2 causes. 1, Train the Exile as her newest pupil and more importantly impart lifetimes of knowledge to her (The Exile) and 2, use the Exile's "wound" to eliminate the Force and its control over the Galaxy.

 

 

Kreia is very much a "Gray philosopher" in regards to the Force, in which case you are accurate in such statements, but don't forget, being somewhat "neutral" as she is, she can still have her own "less neutral" ambitions.

 

Truthfully I didn't come to grasp with a complete understanding of this until my 2nd-3rd playthroughs.

 

If you want to play a canon game (meaning it is part of the SW universe as the accepted facts, then play the game with a Female exile and play with Neutral or LS)

Edited January 9, 2008 by Darth Hades

[Petra]

Is it just me or does anyone else feel like Kreia really didn't deserve to die at the end....

Not just you

 

There should've been an option to convert her at least, or weaken her enough and then let her live. I mean, isn't it strange to kill your own teammate. Alright for DS play style perhaps, but you do get attached a bit to your teammates. Probably you were supposed to start hating Kreia after she jumped into her black robes, but it didn't happen to me, and I doubt that it happened to anyone else

I believe that it should've been Atris at the end of the game.

 

there would still be fighting but at least it would not be on such a scale to where entire planets were destroyed over philosophies.

Sounds a bit unreal. There'd still be fighting with planets destroyed anyway. People are destructive, even in our world. Take away "the force" as means of planetary destruction, there's still technology in SW Universe that can do the same.

Edited January 9, 2008 by Petra

[Knights&Darths]

Well, Jedi think nobody deserves execution, and the Sith spared her life more than once, maybe there's a little Kreia in us all, or maybe she's one of those you can't help underestimating. The point is not whether she deserved to die though, the point is that she wanted to. Not until the Exile managed to kill her, would she be convinced that her teachings had wrought the ultimate wielder of the Force. It was important to her, so much so that she fell to the dark side when her hopes for the Exile began to dwindle.

 

"I see what happened now. It is because you were afraid."

 

[Dark Wastl]

Not just you

 

There should've been an option to convert her at least, or weaken her enough and then let her live. I mean, isn't it strange to kill your own teammate. Alright for DS play style perhaps, but you do get attached a bit to your teammates. Probably you were supposed to start hating Kreia after she jumped into her black robes, but it didn't happen to me, and I doubt that it happened to anyone else

I believe that it should've been Atris at the end of the game.

 

I can't see how that would have worked. As she said before the fight, you have to kill her, or she kills you.

She was "redeemed" as far as she could be redeemed, it would have weakened her character significantly if you could have convinced her to live.

[Petra]

I can't see how that would have worked. As she said before the fight, you have to kill her, or she kills you.

She was "redeemed" as far as she could be redeemed, it would have weakened her character significantly if you could have convinced her to live.

That's true

Anyway, the Exile could use a cop-out. There is a way to cut off people from the Force, the problem is that the Exile didn't learn to do it. Otherwise, Kreia could've been stripped away of her power and permitted to live. This way, I believe, Kreia would've been given a second chance to live a life without the Force. Maybe she'd finally come to peace with it.

Otherwise it weakens her character, you're right... It wouldn't do if she was just persuaded by somebody else.

[indarkestday]

Beastmode, I know what you mean. She had good intentions and taught something very important in the Star Wars universe: One does not need to feel the Force to be whole and that people should not seek to destroy something like the Exile simply because they do not understand her/him.

 

However, good intentions can still cause bad actions. The Force at the "energy field" level is a gift that can be used for good or evil. If the universe were deafened to it, then much evil would be avoided, but also much good. Quite honestly, I don't think one can kill the Force without killing the universe, if one could kill the Force at all its levels. I think Lucas intended the Force to also be a higher and eternal reality, as well as the binding of the universe with a will of its own, as Kreia states.

 

Kreia hates the Force for pushing its will on sentients to achieve balance. Yet, she also manipulates everybody to achieve what she feels is the greater good! I'm not sure if Lucas made the Force's will entirely light, but he does assert that balance in the Force means that the dark side is held at bay.

 

For me, Kreia is Grey. She had good intentions, but might have only cared for the Exile for what he/she represented. Everyone was a pawn, although she did express that she cared for the Exile's companions before she died. Nevertheless, she is darn cool.

[Petra]

I'm not sure if Lucas made the Force's will entirely light, but he does assert that balance in the Force means that the dark side is held at bay.

Lucas said he drew the Force concept from Castaneda, in whose books the Force was called simply energy, power, or personal power (when utilized). There was an entity in his books called "the dark sea of awareness" that was a source of all power and life, it was alien to humanity and had its own agenda that couldn't be comprehended by us humans

And if we continue drawing parallels, killing the force means killing a life: death in Castaneda's books happens when the energy of a sentient being disappears, going back into the dark sea of awareness where it came from.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Petra

[indarkestday]

Well, now I know. Thanks, Petra.

 

The thing about wishing Kreia would live and that Atris would end up as the final Darth Traya makes me wish the cut ending was in the game, but I like Atris also. I'm glad the PC could get her to redeem herself, even though I don't know what happened after all the Sith holocrons started yelling at her.

 

And, actually, I find myself liking how the game ended. Even the lack of party member closure was cool because it made Malachor seem very Armageddon-like, just the Exile traveling into Malachor alone and Mira and the Remote following. We know some of them survived because the Ebon Hawk picks up the Exile and Kreia mentions their fates.

Edited January 12, 2008 by indarkestday