FX Sabers

[Sturm]

Rofl.

 

"You die now, I have a non noob build, please bow down to my extremely unintelligent brute"

[Guest The Architect]

Wow, that would be pitiful sight

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OPG:

Edited January 12, 2007 by The Architect

[Xard]

I miss him, 'twas so fun back then. Little bit frustrating, but... :'(

Edited January 12, 2007 by Xard

[Xard]

I guess his PM's to me were his final posts. He continued debate in PM when topic was locked ^_^

 

"Duh, "Sidious was strongest sith lord in his time" my ass, he was the only sith lord"

 

I said that, and that's true. There is certain difference between Sith Lord and sith apprentice (which Dooku, Maul and Anakin were, even though they were called to lords too)

 

 

Um no. Sidious was the DARK LORD OF THE SITH but the others WERE SITH LORDS. Sidious was the master and they were the apprentices. They were all sith lords. Anyway out of all of them sidious was the most powerful but anakin had the most potential. The arguement was about sidious power lvl. He was the most powerful during his time and his clone VASTLY improved from the original sidious lack of power but still not enough to be the most powerful sith ever. What do you HONESTLY think would happen if DE sidious approached nelius? He would get drained within an instant ALL OVER. Did sidious discover the secrets to immortality such as Sion? Was sidious able to create a force LIGHTNING storm or use force crush. Did sidious anailate hundreds of other force sensitives BY HIMSELF? Did he learn the electro magnectic torpedoe (which was a power he tried to learn but FAILED)? Did he grow in power simply by watching a foe and observing him while fighting him and than master that same ubber power tecnique of his foe but even to a greater degree when it took years for his foe to learn that tecnique? Could sidious just simply drain the life out of multiple jedi masters (some of the strongest in the order)? Could sidious go around and make force bonds instantly and force those to follow him. No. Even when Revan and The Exile had such powers to form an army as deadly as the empires perhaps by sending force bonds to those they didn't because they did not need to hide behind others. Until sidious SHOWS PROOF of more impressive feats than he is NOT the most powerful ever but only the msot powerful dark lord of the sith during his time. He may have been the greatest minipulater ever and one of the smartest dark lords of the sith but when in comes to RAW STRENGTH and RAW POWER he does not compare to some others although DE sidious does come on the top 10 if not top 5 list for most powerful dark lords of the sith ever because of his force storm ability. But that's all he has shown us. Almsot everything he acomplishes is THROUGH HIS ARMY and his armies TECNOLIGY. If he was so powerful why did he needa death star to crush his foes? Whenever he was ALONE in a fight against another force sensitive he did not show to be all what he is made out to be. His power is within his allies and army. Well at least most of it anyway. DE Sidious is an exception.

 

This is first post in the Mighty OPG series ^_^

[Xard]

Heh, this is quite fun. Apparenly I can't remember my answer to that PM but this is his counter-post:

 

It's cause you know YOU CAN'T POSSIBLEY prove it wrong and your ignorant. I OFFICIALLY delcare sidious to not be the most powerful.

 

:p

 

Sorryy for off-topic mods

Edited January 12, 2007 by Xard

[Purgatorio]

ROFL!

Don't forget the exile KILLED Sion who was IMORTAL! USE LOGIC :crazy:

EDIT: sorry I forgot to emphasize the "KILLED". ^_^

Edited January 12, 2007 by Purgatorio

[Xard]

I still can't remember any storyline proof that Exile used forms he learned from masters to kill them.

 

Oh and I found your last post in the topic of the most powerful jedi.

 

GL has stated that it is Anakin.

 

Mace Windu isn't that strong OPG, damnit. Palpatine would've won him, you have to remember from which point of view the book is told before you are stating that he had "no difficulties". Duh. And look at the damn movie, it wasn't easy for him, and Palpatine had tremendous powers left. Why they would've other wise added the "power, unlimited power". *sigh* Mace fought with vaapadu in movie.

 

Yes it is about enviroment. Palpatine tried to run from Yoda. But in Senate it goes as described above. IT IS ABOUT ENVIROMENT.

 

Dooku had no chance against Yoda too. Instead of killing his old apprentice he saved two friends. So that makes it so that Yoda wasn't powerful enough to beat Dooku?

 

The thing that is getting on my nerves here is that you are trying to make character WHO APPEARS ONLY IN ONE VIDEO GAME the most greatest, coolest and teh ultimate megadudest ever. You have to understand that what is EU always comes second to movies. Sure, they are not spamming "Force storm" or "Force barrier" in the movies. If they add "force fireball" into k3, then you are going to say that "OMG, only teh ancient jedis and siths are strong enough to cast force firebalzzz!!!111"

 

Star Wars is story of ANAKIN and the SKYWALKERS, not some nameless hero of CRPG. Anakin is strongest force user ever, the reincarnation of force itself, you could say. He has highest midichlorian count than anybody else. He is most powerful one in whole SW, since he is the main protagonist and antagonist. *sigh*

 

Since Anakin never reached his full potential, he didn't get that powerful though, but thing is different with Luke. And about the "thousand folds crystal", okay, lets think like this: WIS +1 CON +1 Regeneration +1 is 333,333... "folds".

 

So WIS +3, CON +3, Regeneration +3 is "thousand folds". As you can see, Kotor 2 and books are telling the same thing, but different "words". So, how many "folds" your personal crystal increases your power...

 

And the learning speed, let's take one example: Artemis Entreri and Drizzt Do'Urden. They both are masterful fighters, like different sides of coins otherwise(as Artemis the "darker side" and Drizzt the "lighter side"), but their fighting skills are (nearly) equal, unmatched. They are nearly equal...nearly.

 

Artemis Entreri is in this sense like Exile: He can learn only by watching his opponent, like Exile did as DS when fighting with Jedi Masters. He learns Drizzt techniques, even his whirlwind attack during one fight. But even so he can learn and master others techniques so quickly, doesn't mean he wins.

 

Drizzt has won the fight every time when they had dueled. Not easily, but won them anyway.

 

Even the "fast learning" wont secure the victory. Sure you defeat jedi masters with it, but there is no proof that same would work with Luke, Mace Windu or Anakin Skywalker. Even though you master style of your enemy doesn't make you invincible. Sure you mastered Jedi Masters style quickly, but it is never stated that you learned to use them better than they, or even as equal. It might shock for example Vrook that you have learned technique so quickly, but that doesn't mean that it was your learning speed that granted you the victory. Instead, it is propably Exile's own "slurped" powers (it is just explanation why you raise levels, you know. ) and new form granted the victory.

 

Heck, you don't even have to use forms of the masters against them. I use always Makashi.

 

So it isn't the learning speed that makes Exile to win them. He wons because he is stronger than them. But Exile isn't stronger than Chosen One or his child and main protagonist of SW. In last hand, the result of fight between...hmm... Luke and Exile would be decided by storyteller, but even storytellers must not make decision that are against Lucas's will. Originally LUke was meant to die instead of Chewie during Yuuzhan Vong war, but that didn't happen. Why not? Lucas didn't want to Luke DIE.

 

Luke little bit like Drizzt Do'Urden. Sure, he may be close to death many times, but he is never killed. Both of them are too liked characters, by readers or makers themselves.

 

Not storywise Exile could never defeat Luke because he isn't allowed to do so. GL watches more closely what happens in EU than we normally believe. And if he is asked who shall win, Luke or "Exile, he is gamecharacter from Kotor 2" answer is clear.

 

Even more clearlier it is if it comes to Anakin vs. Exile. Anakin is the main character of SW, it is no question at all.

 

And canonical Exile didn't learn forms just by watching... We know that as LS he learns them quickly, but that could be week, a month. Kotor 2 consumes after all whole year in timeline.

 

And let's not forget that if I want, Exile never existed like rest of the EU. I could onlt believe in canon if I want. So there never was people like Revan, or Exile, or Exar Kun, or...

 

 

Mace Windu isn't that strong OPG, damnit. Palpatine would've won him, you have to remember from which point of view the book is told before you are stating that he had "no difficulties". Duh. And look at the damn movie, it wasn't easy for him, and Palpatine had tremendous powers left. Why they would've other wise added the "power, unlimited power". *sigh* Mace fought with vaapadu in movie.

 

 

Dude no one EVER stated (meaning creators of star wars) that sidious won and wiki tells you what happened. Read the novel as well. Mace used vapaads super conducting loop to redirect everything palpatine had back at him. NO PROOF whatsoever that palpatine won the saber duel. Sidious didn't even know of vapaad untill mace introduced it. Yes palaptine was faking his lightning but it WAS THE SAVE HIS LIFE. ALL PALPATINE ever can do is HIDE behind his bitchs to do his work for him cause his lack of power. He played anakin for his LIFE.

 

 

Yes it is about enviroment. Palpatine tried to run from Yoda. But in Senate it goes as described above. IT IS ABOUT ENVIROMENT.

 

Either way sidious was mabey just a few hairs stronger than yoda.

 

Dooku had no chance against Yoda too. Instead of killing his old apprentice he saved two friends. So that makes it so that Yoda wasn't powerful enough to beat Dooku?

 

Well alot of this is not fresh in my memory since the debate.

 

 

The thing that is getting on my nerves here is that you are trying to make character WHO APPEARS ONLY IN ONE VIDEO GAME the most greatest, coolest and teh ultimate megadudest ever. You have to understand that what is EU always comes second to movies. Sure, they are not spamming "Force storm" or "Force barrier" in the movies. If they add "force fireball" into k3, then you are going to say that "OMG, only teh ancient jedis and siths are strong enough to cast force firebalzzz!!!111"

 

Um no. These events STILL happened 4,000 years ago and all that KNOWLEDGE was LOST and people formed into weak children but playing with toys. Also I do not lvl a character up and say OMG LOOK AT MY BUILD! I base everything off the story. Sidious barley even uses anything except for force lightning. Yeah real impressive. rolleyes.gif

 

 

Star Wars is story of ANAKIN and the SKYWALKERS, not some nameless hero of CRPG. Anakin is strongest force user ever, the reincarnation of force itself, you could say. He has highest midichlorian count than anybody else. He is most powerful one in whole SW, since he is the main protagonist and antagonist. *sigh*

 

Ok even ANAKINS medeclorians probably had a limit. Also he was NOT EVER AT ANY POINT the most powerful jedi or sith. He had the most potential and that's about it. Luke on the other hand in his prime power I have to admit is impressive. But the Exile could simply learn his abilities and mock them, master them (possibley even better than him withion seconds), and after killing him gain all his power. The exile can gain pwoers simply because he gained abilities NOT POSSIBLE unless you give up the force. Just from feadings and leachinf off others he may very well have come to be a close second to luke at the end of the game and his blade work was probably even better.

 

 

Since Anakin never reached his full potential, he didn't get that powerful though, but thing is different with Luke. And about the "thousand folds crystal", okay, lets think like this: WIS +1 CON +1 Regeneration +1 is 333,333... "folds".

 

Actually all that stuff is 3. Anyway storywise the crystal increases ones power one thousand fold but it's power decreases the further away you get from it. The exiles crystal is as powerful as him or reflects his own power. You it depends on how you think of it. It could be less, same lvl, or more powerful than the exile. We will never know I guess.

 

 

And the learning speed, let's take one example: Artemis Entreri and Drizzt Do'Urden. They both are masterful fighters, like different sides of coins otherwise(as Artemis the "darker side" and Drizzt the "lighter side"), but their fighting skills are (nearly) equal, unmatched. They are nearly equal...nearly.

 

Hmm I am not sure about where or what this was debated about in the topic.

 

 

Even the "fast learning" wont secure the victory. Sure you defeat jedi masters with it, but there is no proof that same would work with Luke, Mace Windu or Anakin Skywalker. Even though you master style of your enemy doesn't make you invincible. Sure you mastered Jedi Masters style quickly, but it is never stated that you learned to use them better than they, or even as equal. It might shock for example Vrook that you have learned technique so quickly, but that doesn't mean that it was your learning speed that granted you the victory. Instead, it is propably Exile's own "slurped" powers (it is just explanation why you raise levels, you know. ) and new form granted the victory.

Acually the exile did master it better. STORYWISE he used THOSE tecniques within the force to kill them so yes he did master them better. And since he is a wound in the force he can simply leach off others and send echos through the force and gain things that luke wouldn't even be able to gain. But it seems we have a misunderstanding here. You play LS and I play DS. As DS you learn instantly better than the masters while in combat. As lighside though the Exile is simply taught and not directly from sendings echos from the force and leaching to gain his power but just from being taught. But I am saying if the Exile was to FIGHT someone else he would feed off him and use his own abilities to destroy him in most cases. And the exile does seem to have to will the ability to learn from other masters in combat. It's all very debatable but the exile is not just a worthy opponant to luke because of this but because every passing kill he WILL become stronger. And the most impressive thing about the exiles power is most of the time he/she is not even putting effort into it but the powers just come.

 

 

Heck, you don't even have to use forms of the masters against them. I use always Makashi

 

STORYWISE.

 

 

So it isn't the learning speed that makes Exile to win them. He wons because he is stronger than them. But Exile isn't stronger than Chosen One or his child and main protagonist of SW. In last hand, the result of fight between...hmm... Luke and Exile would be decided by storyteller, but even storytellers must not make decision that are against Lucas's will. Originally LUke was meant to die instead of Chewie during Yuuzhan Vong war, but that didn't happen. Why not? Lucas didn't want to Luke DIE.

 

Many different things will help the exile win. And regardless of what lucas says and like it or not jedi have shown these things called feats of their powers and skills which WERE SHOWN and DID HAPPEN. Lucas can't erase time or change something that was already shown. Mabey he wanted windu to live AFTER he made the movie but the movie already came out and fact was fact. It happened and was shown. PEROID. No mere words can change the fact of what the characters did and you must realise that lucas approved these characters so he can't really take it back now.

 

Luke little bit like Drizzt Do'Urden. Sure, he may be close to death many times, but he is never killed. Both of them are too liked characters, by readers or makers themselves.

 

Yes luke is impressive in his final years I get it.

 

 

Not storywise Exile could never defeat Luke because he isn't allowed to do so. GL watches more closely what happens in EU than we normally believe. And if he is asked who shall win, Luke or "Exile, he is gamecharacter from Kotor 2" answer is clear.

 

Luke might beat the exile logically and he might not but the exile ALWAYS holds the potential of beating luke because even if he couldn't he could simply set out the learn new abilities (and be sucessful) and kill others to gain more power.

 

anyway I am tired. I will speak mroe this this tomorrow.

 

---------------------------------------

 

 

Quotes don't work in that post at all. Oh well... ^_^

Edited January 12, 2007 by Xard

[Guest The Architect]

I still think your sig Xard is the standout of OPG

Edited January 13, 2007 by The Architect

[Sturm]

OMFG 16 STRENGHT NO WAI!!!111

[Xard]

I am going to give full answer later (no time right now) but there is one thing that I can say quickly: Whatever boss wants, boss gets.

 

Many powers of K1/K2 were maked for the game, because they are RPG's. If they would've used those powers that are seen in movies, there would've been too few force powers.

 

Force is basically magic in Kotor's, and everyone who has played other CRPG's knows that there is terrible numbers of magical abilities (at least 100 in NWN 1, surely more) and for "mage" (Consular) characters more powers were needed than existed. That's why there is so much more powers in games than movies (in movies they don't need those).

 

I remember hearing few hardcore SW fans saying sarcastically about k1 when it was published "well, at least it doesn't have fireballs"

 

 

never to less those powers have been confirmed in wiki and wookiepedia and are in almost all the novels. THEY DID HAVE those powers back in the old days.

 

------------------

 

Just how exactly how he couldn't understand the fact many force powers are made in EU because of GAMEPLAY/ENTERTAINMENT reasons... :crazy:

 

Omgz, there isn't force crush in teh movies but it's in kotor2 thus sidious sucks lolz"

 

Geez. I never gave the full answer since he had abandonded forums by then.

 

Also I wasn't very keen on idea to start repeating same arguments for 100th time again.

[Xard]

So, his two last posts are quite a same. I can't remember my posts, but they propably were attempts of reasoning.

 

--------------

 

Dude those powers are confirmed on those sites. THEY EXIST. Get over it. Also force plague could be used at nearly any time possibley even the movies. All it does is weakens and slows down the jedi.

 

------------

 

ermm...

 

oh, and:

 

-----------

 

I doubt that. Actually almost all of them are used in books.

 

----------------

 

Still about foce powers.

 

I remember writing loooooong post (aka the full answer) later simply because I was so bored and had nothing else to do.

 

I never posted it since OPG hadn't logged in for a long time by then. too bad I didn't save it.

 

However, it mostly used all the old arguments I and others used when OPG still raged about Exile's awesomeness

 

Besides, all his arguments were already triumphed over, by me and other ones.

 

I explained (in that post in page two I quoted) whole instant learning thing.

 

Now it's confirmed that Exile is LSF, so canonically whole "insta learning" never existed

 

It was fun as long as it lasted, too bad he was defeated long ago and started to ignorantly repeat himself

 

I beg your pardon for typos, but I was quite careless when writing those posts. After all, they were sended to OPG

 

Xard

Edited January 13, 2007 by Xard

[Guest The Architect]

Just how exactly how he couldn't understand the fact many force powers are made in EU because of GAMEPLAY/ENTERTAINMENT reasons... :crazy:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You

Edited January 17, 2007 by The Architect

[Xard]

Indeed. I would love to see OPG's face if K4 would happen it Movie time era and there would be lvl 80 charaters, more feats and 1000 frce pwrs

 

THEY DID HAVE those powers back in the old days.

 

It would be death blow to that argument

[Guest The Architect]

Indeed. I would love to see OPG's face if K4 would happen it Movie time era and there would be lvl 80 charaters, more feats and 1000 frce pwrs

 

THEY DID HAVE those powers back in the old days.

 

It would be death blow to that argument

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well, he

Edited January 17, 2007 by The Architect