Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Your picture you provided CG looks total ass. Is that a man with a nobody-girl-face or what? I'm happy woman don't play an active role in G3, that keeps the setting more realistic. Nonetheless, according to the GS preview, G3 already delivers what were promised.... now they only need to get the remaining animations done right and fix the crashes. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I'm happy woman don't play an active role in G3, that keeps the setting more realistic.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Because women haven't traditionally had a large role in, er, imaginary places? Reminds me of when people complained that characters in Thief had American accents instead of proper English ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Your picture you provided CG looks total ass. Is that a man with a nobody-girl-face or what?I'm happy woman don't play an active role in G3, that keeps the setting more realistic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Should I give her a beauty mark, do you think? Some long flowing tresses? Maybe she can sit in a tower somewhere and wait for some stud to come carry her away. That would be awesome. I can't wait to play that game. You play your characters and I'll play mine, kthnks. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I'm happy woman don't play an active role in G3, that keeps the setting more realistic.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Because women haven't traditionally had a large role in, er, imaginary places? Reminds me of when people complained that characters in Thief had American accents instead of proper English ones. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In G3, you play as some sort of a Gothic Knight. I don't want to see a woman doing that, that's kinda silly. This is not Oblivion. And I've never had any gripe with Thief, no matter whether playing the English or German version, so what's your point? Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I removed the pic. I'm not interested in debating geneder roles. I'm just here to talk about games. Sorry to derail the thread, however unintentionally. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Should I give her a beauty mark, do you think? Some long flowing tresses? Maybe she can sit in a tower somewhere and wait for some stud to come carry her away. That would be awesome. I can't wait to play that game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now that would rock totally! Edited September 6, 2006 by Morgoth Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) In G3, you play as some sort of a Gothic Knight. I don't want to see a woman doing that, that's kinda silly. So a male knight in a fantasy land fighting orcs is realistic, but a female knight in a fantasy land fighting orc is unrealistic? One may like their fantasy setting done in a particular way, but it's got nothing to do with realism. This is not Oblivion. What does Oblivion have to do with anything? And I've never had any gripe with Thief, no matter whether playing the English or German version, so what's your point?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Er, I'm obviously not saying you have any problem with Thief, the point is you're making the same mistake they are, comparing history and the real world with a fictional setting, that although parts are influenced by history, the devs could throw in laser guns and aliens and it wouldn't make the game any less realistic. Edited September 6, 2006 by Hell Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I removed the pic. I'm not interested in debating geneder roles. I'm just here to talk about games. Sorry to derail the thread, however unintentionally. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's all your fault. It's always your fault... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 So a male knight in a fantasy land fighting orcs is realistic, but a female knight in a fantasy land fighting orc is unrealistic? One may like their fantasy setting done in a particular way, but it's got nothing to do with realism. Different Developer, different vision, different goals. I just like the world the Piranhas created more than Bethesda created with Oblivion. And while G3 is fantasy as well, it feels a bit more realistic and medieval, and I also don't have to mess around with whiny woman and stupid kids. What does Oblivion have to do with anything? Oblivion is IMO just the epitome of an unimaginative (should I say LOTR rip off?) American style RPG where everything, no matter how silly it appears, is possible. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Er, I'm obviously not saying you have any problem with Thief, the point is you're making the same mistake they are, comparing history and the real world with a fictional setting, that although parts are influenced by history, the devs could throw in laser guns and aliens and it wouldn't make the game any less realistic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As I said, Gothic is fictional as well, but there're still rules that have to apply. Rules that may resemble a bit the rough historical medieval times, but I'm fine with that. You can twist and turn it as much as you want, Piranha put more brain into their setting than Bethesda did with ES. If they don't want give woman important roles, they certainly have reason for that. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) One of my major beefs with the Gothic games is that if youre forced to play a pre-made character, why the hell couldnt theyve made him a bit interesting? Now you just get to play a nameless clean slate which looks like a finnish powermetal fan. Edited September 6, 2006 by Kaftan Barlast DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Raven Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 One of my major beefs with the Gothic games is that if youre forced to play a pre-made character, why the hell couldnt theyve made him a bit interesting? Now you just get to play a nameless clean slate which looks like a finnish powermetal fan. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pre-made? That's a negative mark against a game, one that I would likely not touch. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 You should have the option to choose a female avatar at least! hehe. SOrry. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Raven Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 You should have the option to choose a female avatar at least! hehe. SOrry. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's what I am thinking. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Oblivion is IMO just the epitome of an unimaginative (should I say LOTR rip off?) American style RPG where everything, no matter how silly it appears, is possible. Not really. It's a typical cliched medieval fantasy world, something we've seen over and over in crpgs. Oblivion is in no way unique. You can twist and turn it as much as you want, Twisting what exactly? I'm merely pointing out that whether or not woman have an important role in any fantasy rpg has nothing to do with realism due to the fantasy setting being whatever the developers decide it is. This isn't about Gothic or Oblivion or even RPGs, rather games in general. You're confusing realism with what you find preferable. Piranha put more brain into their setting than Bethesda did with ES. Not really. The setting as a whole isn't any more creative than TES or DnD or any other medieval fantasy nonsense. One of my major beefs with the Gothic games is that if youre forced to play a pre-made character, why the hell couldnt theyve made him a bit interesting? Yeah, I prefer players characters not to be so bland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 You should have the option to choose a female avatar at least! hehe. SOrry. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I remember someone saying they couldn't get into Deus Ex because they were forced to play a male. There is nothing particularly masculine about JC Denton, nothing about his character that makes him uniquely male, so really it's the character model they couldn't identify with, not the actual character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) Not really. It's a typical cliched medieval fantasy world, something we've seen over and over in crpgs. Oblivion is in no way unique. Did I say "medieval fantasy world"? I'm talking about medieval, not medieval fantasy. And yeah, Oblivion isn't unique, but Gothic is. Twisting what exactly? I'm merely pointing out that whether or not woman have an important role in any fantasy rpg has nothing to do with realism due to the fantasy setting being whatever the developers decide it is. This isn't about Gothic or Oblivion or even RPGs, rather games in general. You're confusing realism with what you find preferable. Huh? This thread is about Gothic, please open an new one if you want to discuss this matter. And again, Gothic is fantasy as well, but there can still be rules applied that maybe aren't realistic in other fantasy RPGs. Realism isn't a bad thing as long as the setting and chars gain credibility through that. Yeah, I prefer players characters not to be so bland. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I always thought you should play "your" character in a CRPG, and now you're whining you don't get pre-defined characteristics? You play the nameless hero as you want and imagine his motives like you do just in any other RPG, not matter whether you get a pre-made "blank slate" or a self-created "blank slate". Edited September 6, 2006 by Morgoth Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) And yeah, Oblivion isn't unique, but Gothic is. Gothic is set in a medieval fantasy world. In what way is it unique compared to other RPGs set in medieval fantasy worlds? Note that I'm asking what's unique, not what about it you like. This thread is about Gothic, please open an new one if you want to discuss this matter. You didn't explain what it is I'm supposedly twisting. Anyway, you claimed the role of women in Gothic was realistic, I pointed out that as it's set in a fantasy world realism isn't the issue. The end. No need to get your knickers in a knot. Edited September 6, 2006 by Hell Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Thanks for not commenting on my other comments. Gothic is set in a medieval fantasy world. In what way is it unique compared to other RPGs set in medieval fantasy worlds? Note I'm asking what's unique, not what about it you like. When I say unique, it's unique to me. That is all that matters. You din't explain what it is I'm supposedly twisting. Anyway, you claimed the role of women in Gothic was realistic, I pointed out that as it's set in a fantasy world realism isn't the issue. The end. No need to get your knickers in a knot. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Realism, Fantasy, Medieval, Blablabla....... what's your point Hell Kitty? I just said that I totally respect why the Piranhas leave out woman and kids, because it makes sense in their world. Period. You and some others seem to have a beef with that, like I do have a beef with the crappy ES setting, and that's all. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) I always thought you should play "your" character in a CRPG, and now you're whining you don't get pre-defined characteristics? You play the nameless hero as you want and imagine his motives like you do just in any other RPG, not matter whether you get a pre-made "blank slate" or a self-created "blank slate". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Half the fun for me is making the character so a character creation option needs to be in the game for me to really get into it. One of the things I disliked about PS:T I just couldn't get in character mainly beause it wasn't my character. The same can be said with Gothic 2. Personally I like to create female characters. If I am going to stare at the screen for hours on end I might as well be looking at the right type of pixels. Also there was women warrior types in medieval times and earlier. They were extremely rare. Can we say Joan of Arc. For a religious whacko she was pretty cool. Edited September 6, 2006 by Judge Hades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) I always thought you should play "your" character in a CRPG, and now you're whining you don't get pre-defined characteristics? You play the nameless hero as you want and imagine his motives like you do just in any other RPG, not matter whether you get a pre-made "blank slate" or a self-created "blank slate". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Half the fun for me is making the character so a character creation option needs to be in the game for me to really get into it. One of the things I disliked about PS:T I just couldn't get in character mainly beause it wasn't my character. The same can be said with Gothic 2. Personally I like to create female characters. If I am going to stare at the screen for hours on end I might as well be looking at the right type of pixels. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know. But to me, it doesn't make that big difference. I think the player should earn his/her points through the gameplay, so I can actually do without char creation very well. Edited September 6, 2006 by Morgoth Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) what's your point Hell Kitty?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> What's the point of any discussion on a message board? Just for the hell of it. You claimed something was realistic, I disagreed and was interested why you thought it was realistic, you claimed the game was unique, i was interested in what you thought was unique. Turns out you were really just talking about what you like about the game. The end. No need to be so defensive. Edited September 6, 2006 by Hell Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I know. But to me, it doesn't make that big difference. I think the player should earn his/her points through the gameplay, so I can actually do without char creation very well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree that a character should earn his or her points but there needs to be allowances for the basics. Such as what if I wanted to play a novice mage right at the begining of Gothic 2 instead of a novice fighter? I can't bcause all the basic beginning skills are set for me being a fighter and not a mage or thief. Sure earning the points are fine but how we start the game and what basic abilities the character has should be up to the player. Also being able to play a female character would be nice. In this day and political correct age Gothic seems to me a bit sexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Oh my...playing the sexist card... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) Just a bit, don't you think? There have been women in the past ages who have taken the warrior path, fighting right along the men in recorded history and in mythology. It is a rare thing but it has happen. Just to arbitrarily ignore it seems wrong to me. Edited September 6, 2006 by Judge Hades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 what's your point Hell Kitty?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> What's the point of any discussion on a message board? Just for the hell of it. You claimed something was realistic, I disagreed and was interested why you thought it was realistic, you claimed the game was unique, i was interested in what you thought was unique. Turns out you were really just talking about what you like about the game. The end. No need to be so defensive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now finally we find the red fathom again. Yes, I claimed that not let doing a woman a man's job is more realistic (maybe the wrong choice of words), or believable, because the scruffy and wild Gothic world is just created that way. Don't try to shoe-horn something into just because RPG giants like Bioware or Bethesda do it as well. Sure, the world of Gothic isn't really unique per se, but it has it's own merits and own strengths, and that alone in a world that just yells "Elder Scrolls, World of Warcraft and Forgotten Realms" makes it a bit refreshing. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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