Hammer & Sickle Review & Demo

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I went in to the commandants home, and had my girl strangle him.  Then I took his uniform and wandered around the prison.  This way I was able to attack at Fidel's cell, and fight my way out.  Still, even that was super hard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've found a way to finish the demo without firing a shot.

There also appears to be a special battle scene if you kill all the Americans in town. It dosnt look like it's winnable at all. Don't actually get to see the prison on that route. Maybe someone will win , but I doubt it given how things are set up. It probably didnt help that I happened to be carrying all the weapons from the dead americans so 200-300% weight.

 

If you want to check it out all you have to do is kill all the police in town. Then when the Americans show up kill them too.

 

Maybe they came across stuff that I didnt, but incident with teleporting policemen aside I think they were overly harsh with the review.

Edited December 4, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[kumquatq3]

Ok, Fire Emblem just isn't deeper TB combat than SS. No freaking way. Having played alot of both, just no.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Ok, Fire Emblem just isn't deeper TB combat than SS. No freaking way. Having played alot of both, just no.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your mistaking micromanagement for tactics. You may have to do a lot more popping up and down in SS but as far as overall tactics Fire Emblem beats it hands down.

[kumquatq3]

Ok, Fire Emblem just isn't deeper TB combat than SS. No freaking way. Having played alot of both, just no.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your mistaking micromanagement for tactics. You may have to do a lot more popping up and down in SS but as far as overall tactics Fire Emblem beats it hands down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think your mistaking having options for micromanagement. Your choices, even in terms of RPG type charecter building, is far greater in SS than it is in FE. I mean, you can't even pick how your character grows in FE, except when you "evolve" him. In SS, you have a pretty decently sized skill tree. If you want to bother going into weapons....

 

In terms of the combat, SS doesn't have a set "system" like FE. It doesn't bottleneck you into the best "tactic" to use. If I run into a mixed squad in SS, I can win or I can lose, it all depends on what I do next and a bit o luck. FE is MUCH more forgiving. Tactics, beyond FE system, arn't really nessasary.

 

Seriously, I can't fathom comparing the two games serious. FE, imo, isn't even as deep as it's sister game "Advanced Wars". Close, but I'd give it to AWs.

Edited December 5, 2005 by kumquatq3

[kumquatq3]

Whatever your typing right now is wrong

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I think your mistaking having options for micromanagement. Your choices, even in terms of RPG type charecter building, is far greater in SS than it is in FE. I mean, you can't even pick how your character grows in FE, except when you "evolve" him. In SS, you have a pretty decently sized skill tree. If you want to bother going into weapons....

 

In terms of the combat, SS doesn't have a set "system" like FE. It doesn't bottleneck you into the best "tactic" to use. If I run into a mixed squad in SS, I can win or I can lose, it all depends on what I do next and a bit o luck. FE is MUCH more forgiving. Tactics, beyond FE system, arn't really nessasary.

 

Seriously, I can't fathom comparing the two games serious. FE, imo, isn't even as deep as it's sister game "Advanced Wars". Close, but I'd give it to AWs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats simply adds to the how much you need to think about applying the characters. It also means that the same tactic wont work from game to game.

Depending on which FE you happen to pick , they also have skills which have much more impact. One place I will agree with the review is that the SS combat system isnt as deep as the minutia would have you beleive.

 

While the individual weapon selection is better overall they are likely pretty close.

 

Advance wars isnt deep though it dosnt really punish mistakes even if you S rank the map. You dont have the pressure of keeping every unit alive while at the same time making sure it gets enough battle experience to not become obsolete.

Also you dont have the supports which another level of tactical thinking.

 

Did you mean to say SS is more forgiving ? Because FE is anything but if you screw up you will pay and pay big time.

[kumquatq3]

Thats simply adds to the how much you need to think about applying the characters. It also means that the same tactic wont work from game to game.

Depending on which FE you happen to pick , they also have skills which have much more impact.

 

Not really. On anything but hard the enemy is so weak that it doesn't really matter what your setup is. Your main hero units, or things like assasins, will just destroy all. You can almost beat the GBA FEs with just an assasin.

 

Sure, you can self limit yourself, but thats a whole new arguement.

 

One place I will agree with the review is that the SS combat system isnt as deep as the minutia would have you beleive.

 

Sure, to each his own, but I maintain that SS is on top of the mountain in terms of TB depth.

 

While the individual weapon selection is better overall they are likely pretty close.

 

In FE, you use the "best" (see: damage) weapon you have. THe only reason you don't is because you want to conserve your best weapons for bosses. Then there are the reverse weapons that reverse the battle system. Thats really your weapon choices. A few do better critical damage or some such, but you get very limited in those terms.

 

That doesn't happen at all in SS. You just pick the best weapon in terms of your strategy. Silenced weapons, melee, long distance, burst, grenages, multishot pistols, etc

 

Advance wars isnt deep though it dosnt really punish mistakes even if you S rank the map. You dont have the pressure of  keeping every unit alive while at the same time making sure it gets enough battle experience to not become obsolete.

Also you dont have the supports which another level of tactical thinking.

 

But FE gives you things like colleseums so you can just up your exp.

 

In AW you have to worry about things like Fuel and your commanders special powers (and their commanders powers)

 

Both games boil down to who wanders into whos "kill zone" first. Thats the real "tactic" of it all. Even then, the enemies usually can't kill you if you do before you get a turn to retreat that guy.

 

Did you mean to say SS is more forgiving ? Because FE is anything but if you screw up you will pay and pay big time.

 

You go into an enemies kill zone in SS, your dead. In FE, you can pick up that guy with another unit or, more likely, you survive and just run away behind other guys. Unless, of course, you are retarded and completely send your magic guys up front. That is like sending medics up front in SS, it's just to stupid to call not doing it a "tactic".

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Not really. On anything but hard the enemy is so weak that it doesn't really matter what your setup is. Your main hero units, or things like assasins, will just destroy all. You can almost beat the GBA FEs with just an assasin.

 

Sure, you can self limit yourself, but thats a whole new arguement.

 

Sure, to each his own, but I maintain that SS is on top of the mountain in terms of TB depth.

 

In FE, you use the "best" (see: damage) weapon you have. THe only reason you don't is because you want to conserve your best weapons for bosses. Then there are the reverse weapons that reverse the battle system. Thats really your weapon choices.  A few do better critical damage or some such, but you get very limited in those terms.

 

That doesn't happen at all in SS. You just pick the best weapon in terms of your strategy. Silenced weapons, melee, long distance, burst, grenages, multishot pistols, etc

 

But FE gives you things like colleseums so you can just up your exp.

 

In AW you have to worry about things like Fuel and your commanders special powers (and their commanders powers)

 

Both games boil down to who wanders into whos "kill zone" first. Thats the real "tactic" of it all. Even then, the enemies usually can't kill you if you do before you get a turn to retreat that guy.

 

You go into an enemies kill zone in SS, your dead. In FE, you can pick up that guy with another unit or, more likely, you survive and just run away behind other guys. Unless, of course, you are retarded and completely send your magic guys up front. That is like sending medics up front in SS, it's just to stupid to call not doing it a "tactic".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sure if you have overleveled them. Kind of defeats the point though dosnt it. As well as destroying your overall score.

 

Theres a difference between limiting yourself and sitting in the Arena till all the units reach level 20 though.

 

Well you can maintain that but I found myself using the same tactics over and over to the point they got repetative. Come to think of it, tactically it's not much changed from Xcom.

 

Or the best you can use. If you want to use better weapons then you need to get your weapon level up. Thats not counting things like the Hammer, Halberd,Armour Slayer etc. Or what a mess they will make of you if you happen to get close with the wrong unit.

 

Yes but you abuse those at your own risk. It will totally ruin your end score and anyone who dosnt get an A or B cant really call themselves a tactician can they

 

Special Powers in AW are easy to see and prepare a counter for since the charge meter is right there on the screen. As for running out of fuel, never seen it happen. I've had the odd tank run out of Ammo but thats why you send an APC along after all. As I recall it takes care of the fuel too.

 

Its a case of outranging them, or if you cant do that use as much cover as you can. I dont consider it worthwhile enough to be called a tactic since it's so obvious. Anything else is down to luck as they will just keep shooting. Since they the AI dosnt think beyond the current battle.

 

Rescuing someone is a useful tactic, especially when your in an area with only one direct attack squre. It's also handy for mass transporting your army and improving your time rank.

 

So generally if all your concerned with is finishing the game, then yes you could say that SS has more tactics since you can just level up at an arena and bully your way through . But if you want the sort of score that makes the whole thing worthwhile, SS really dosnt come close overall.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Anyways back to the topic at hand.Have you figured out any way to beat the American ambush scene after you kill the patrol in town ?

[kumquatq3]

Ok, I'm about argued out on these boards. Agreeing to disagree in 5...4....3...2..

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Ok, I'm about argued out on these boards. Agreeing to disagree in 5...4....3...2..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fair enough. But if you do manage to beat the ambush let me know pls.

[kumquatq3]

Ok, I'm about argued out on these boards. Agreeing to disagree in 5...4....3...2..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fair enough. But if you do manage to beat the ambush let me know pls.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not sure if I want to help you kill Americans. :ph34r:

 

 

First, the only time I've seen Americans on that map are:

 

1. When the Spanish guy gets arrested, but thats a cut scene and hence can't fight with them.

 

2. If you kill all the cops, or at least, lots of them, then a bunch of US soldiers pop up. At least 4. I have comfired 3 with my eyes, but I was exectued by a very powerful machine gun from behind, so I'm guessing 2 squads of 6.

 

If you have the patience, I'd fight my way into a house and just "Alamo Up", if you will

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I'm not sure if I want to help you kill Americans.  :ph34r:

 

 

First, the only time I've seen Americans on that map are:

 

1. When the Spanish guy gets arrested, but thats a cut scene and hence can't fight with them.

 

2. If you kill all the cops, or at least, lots of them, then a bunch of US soldiers pop up. At least 4. I have comfired 3 with my eyes, but I was exectued by a very powerful machine gun from behind, so I'm guessing 2 squads of 6.

 

If you have the patience, I'd fight my way into a house and just "Alamo Up", if you will

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh I can kill the town squad , they tend to group and make good grenade fodder. I expect thats why Ivan came with one. I think there are about 8 of them.

 

After you kill the cops and the squad when it shows up. If you leave the map you get another map different from the one in the prison event. You also get another event which is kind of spoilerish.

 

Anyway the map you end up on is full of Americans and I cant see anyway that it's winnable. It's all open, no cover to speak of.

Edited December 5, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Hurlshort]

Well, I think the point of Hammer and Sickle was to use minimum force...so maybe they are just trying to teach you a lesson...Mr. Violence

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well, I think the point of Hammer and Sickle was to use minimum force...so maybe they are just trying to teach you a lesson...Mr. Violence

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I dislike no win maps.

 

If you get shot at you shoot back dont you.

 

It dosnt look like anyone else has found the map I'm talking about Don't happen to know if there is a demo Forum do you ?

[kumquatq3]

The prison level, right?

 

Anyway the map you end up on is full of Americans and I cant see anyway that it's winnable. It's all open, no cover to speak of.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Unless, of course, you are the master of things TB (and all things carmel popcorn)

 

Seriously, this level is a bitch and I think they send you in under-armed and below in levels and troops.

 

This is what I did:

 

Strangle the commanded, use his uniform and the American officers uniform you already have to get 2 of your guys to the second floor.

 

Actually, take one of those guys, and hit the loot button. You should find wire cutters, that will allow you to put a hole in the back of the prison fence (you might have to turn off the power, dunno, I dont think I did tho). Then send that guy up to the 2nd floor. Take the third person, sneak them past patrols too the nook by the back door. Some times the towers spot you while sneaking in, should only take an attempt or two tho.

 

Now your prepared for combat.

 

Place your guys on the 2nd floor in position to kill as many guys on the first turn as you can. I recommend by the safe on the 2nd floor, when that one guy who patrols passes by, there are 3 of the 4 gaurds on the 2nd floor in front of you, but thats not it. If you leave your 3rd person on the first floor, kiss them good bye.

 

You have to start the combat like this: Have that third person "run" to the 2nd floor. Won't get very far, as you'll be spotted, but take the few steps you can get and then start combat yourself. Have that person run to the 2nd floor, using whatever cover you can. Prolly get hit once, so level the mde equipment with that person. Your other two guys take out the 3 gaurds and move on to elimanating the 4rd one on the next turn. From there, you got two places to hold.

 

The stairs and the ladder that runs to the roof which is excessable to you from the hatch in the ceiling.

 

For a little help, the prisoners eventually break themselves out, and if you leave weapons on the ground (guns, knives won't help) they just might kill a few guards for you.

 

Have the squad leader talk to the spanish guy ASAP when that happens and he'll join you. He can break open the safe as well, special gun and med stuff iirc. Not a very good shot tho, pair him with your strongest burst guy and a pistol for cleanup duties.

 

Thin out the majority of them at the chock points, then fight your way out from there. If nessasary, blow up the stairs with grenades so no one can use them, but I'd hate to have to use the ladder to get down, your in the middle of everything and can't cover your guys very well. You can blow up the ladder too, now that I think about it.

 

O, and keep you guys out of the direct path of those windows in the middle of the room.

Edited December 5, 2005 by kumquatq3

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Anyway the map you end up on is full of Americans and I cant see anyway that it's winnable. It's all open, no cover to speak of.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Unless, of course, you are the master of things TB (and all things carmel popcorn)

 

Seriously, this level is a bitch and I think they send you in under-armed and below in levels and troops.

 

This is what I did:

 

Strangle the commanded, use his uniform and the American officers uniform you already have to get 2 of your guys to the second floor.

 

Actually, take one of those guys, and hit the loot button. You should find wire cutters, that will allow you to but a whole in the back of the prison fence (you might have to turn off the power, dunno, I dont think I did tho). Then send that guy up to the 2nd floor. Take the third person, sneak them past patrols too the nook by the back door. Some times the towers spot you while sneaking in, should only take an attempt or two tho.

 

Now your prepared for combat.

 

Place your guys on the 2nd floor in position to kill as many guys on the first turn as you can. I recommend by the safe on the 2nd floor, when that one guy who patrols passes by, there are 3 of the 4 gaurds on the 2nd floor in front of you, but thats not it. If you leave your 3rd person on the first floor, kiss them good bye.

 

You have to start the combat like this: Have that third person "run" to the 2nd floor. Won't get very far, as you'll be spotted, but take the few steps you can get and then start combat yourself. Have that person run to the 2nd floor, using whatever cover you can. Prolly get hit once, so level the mde equipment with that person. Your other two guys take out the 3 gaurds and move on to elimanating the 4rd one on the next turn. From there, you got two places to hold.

 

The stairs and the ladder that runs to the roof which is excessable to you from the hatch in the ceiling.

 

For a little help, the prisoners eventually break themselves out, and if you leave weapons on the ground (guns, knives won't help) they just might kill a few guards for you.

 

Have the squad leader talk to the spanish guy ASAP when that happens and he'll join you. He can break open the safe as well, special gun and med stuff iirc. Not a very good shot tho, pair him with your strongest burst guy and a pistol for cleanup duties.

 

Thin out the majority of them at the chock points, then fight your way out from there. If nessasary, blow up the stairs with grenades so no one can use them, but I'd hate to have to use the ladder to get down, your in the middle of everything and can't cover your guys very well. You can blow up the ladder too, now that I think about it.

 

O, and keep you guys out of the direct path of those windows in the middle of the room.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wrong map sorry. The map I'm talking about is pretty much open and trees with a ruin towards the top. Those are brits btw on the prison level

 

Theres a much simpler way. Go to the office show the papers and he meets you back at the hut. Thats all there is to it not as much fun though.

Edited December 5, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[kumquatq3]

Ok, your all alone with that map, how did you get it again?

 

 

EDIT: then I massacred your peoples troops

Edited December 5, 2005 by kumquatq3

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Ok, your all alone with that map, how did you get it again?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In the town kill the policeman who comes to annoy you. Then the ones that emerge from the station. Kill the American patrol that shows up and then select leave.

 

Spoilers to follow.

 

 

You then end up on this map. Sanders says sorry and leaves and it's just you and the jewish guy vs 20 something Americans.

 

 

Er so did I not much moral highground to go around is there

Edited December 5, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[kumquatq3]

before you left did you talk to the Spanish guy, maybe he would join you

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

before you left did you talk to the Spanish guy, maybe he would join you

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yep spoke to him first before taking out the other police. He gets carted off like he normally does.

 

My plan was to do in the patrol , steal the weapons and use them for some extra range on the prison level. However if you do, you never get to see the prison level.

[kumquatq3]

I would suggest doing your best to hide one of your guys and have the other dress in the US army officer uniform and get the jist of where the troops are. Maybe you can knife a few to death quitely.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I would suggest doing your best to hide one of your guys and have the other dress in the US army officer uniform and get the jist of where the troops are. Maybe you can knife a few to death quitely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wait till you see the map :D . Knowing where they are isnt really that much of problem.

[kumquatq3]

I would, but the game is out today anyways, so redownloading the demo seems fruitless.

 

Got find a store tha thas it, I think that might be hard.

[kumquatq3]

Release date got bumped till tomarrow