G-Phoria: KotOR II - Did they earn it?

[GhostofAnakin]

But why did Kreia want Mira killed?  And as for the droid quest, it is a plothole since there were direct references to it in the game.  And as I said, you and Battlewookie both listed plotholes, so why list them over again?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Who knows? Kreia works in mysterious ways.

 

What bounty hunters thing are you referring to?

[Dark Moth]

But why did Kreia want Mira killed?  And as for the droid quest, it is a plothole since there were direct references to it in the game.  And as I said, you and Battlewookie both listed plotholes, so why list them over again?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Who knows? Kreia works in mysterious ways.

 

What bounty hunters thing are you referring to?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But see, it's a plothole, then. And most things Kreia does can be explained in the game.

 

The ones you mentioned: the two bounty hunters on the surface of Telos.

[GhostofAnakin]

2. Since there is no idea what exactly happened. Tell us what happened...

4. Telos

5. Mentioned only 5+ times ingame

6. Yes, but HK has offered to unlock it. We know Kreia locked it, but there is no way to unlock it even if the game mentioned it should do so later

9. Why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

2. I have no clue what he's even referring to, so I can't explain what happened.

4. I mentioned that one to him already

5. So was Sleyeheron.

6. that's cut content, it's not a plothole. I asked for plotholes, and that particular plot makes sense

9. she wanted to keep Mira from joining the Exile in the Treyas academy so that the Exile would have to face Kreia alone and "complete his training".

[Dark Moth]

2. Since there is no idea what exactly happened. Tell us what happened...

4. Telos

5. Mentioned only 5+ times ingame

6. Yes, but HK has offered to unlock it. We know Kreia locked it, but there is no way to unlock it even if the game mentioned it should do so later

9. Why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

2. I have no clue what he's even referring to, so I can't explain what happened.

4. I mentioned that one to him already

5. So was Sleyeheron.

6. that's cut content, it's not a plothole. I asked for plotholes, and that particular plot makes sense

9. she wanted to keep Mira from joining the Exile in the Treyas academy so that the Exile would have to face Kreia alone and "complete his training".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As for Sleheyron, it was only mentioned so Yuthura could explain her past. It was really of no other importance to the game.

 

As for Kreia, then why didn't she do the same for the other characters? You could say they were all unconscious, but we know Bao Dur wasn't, and someone had to fly the Ebon Hawk in the LS cutscene. And if you look at the cut content, most of the party members join the exile, not just Mira.

 

Damn, I gotta stop editing my posts. As for the GOTO/remote cutscenes in the Ebon Hawk, you see parts where GOTO confronts remote or in one scene, seems to blast the remote in the hyperdrive room for no apparent reason and the remote falls to the floor. And then, the remote is just floating there next to the hyperdrive as if nothing happened.

Edited August 10, 2005 by Mothman

[GhostofAnakin]

As for Sleheyron, it was only mentioned so Yuthura could explain her past.  It was really of no other importance to the game. 

 

As for Kreia, then why didn't she do the same for the other characters?  You could say they were all unconscious, but we know Bao Dur wasn't, and someone had to fly the Ebon Hawk in the LS cutscene.  And if you look at the cut content, most of the party members join the exile, not just Mira.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Neither did the droid planet. All that was there was to resolve the HK-47 vendetta against his lesser clones. We already knew who sent them after the Exile, so it didn't affect the actual plot other than HK's sidequest.

 

I can't speculate on what would or wouldn't happen if the cut content was in the game. As for why just Mira, because she's a bounty hunter. Kreia probably believed she had the best chance of hunting down the Exile's whereabouts, whereas the others would just get lost on Malachor V.

[BattleCookiee]

2. How is the Ebon Hawk one a plothole?  The Malachor one, again, I gave you

2.  I have no clue what he's even referring to, so I can't explain what happened.

 

Plot hole detected :D

 

4. I mentioned that one to him already

5. So was Sleyeheron.

6. that's cut content, it's not a plothole.  I asked for plotholes, and that particular plot makes sense

9. she wanted to keep Mira from joining the Exile in the Treyas academy so that the Exile would have to face Kreia alone and "complete his training".

 

4. Yes

5. No, I didn't get the intention from talking to Yuthura that I should have been able to go there. From the convo's with Go-to, HK, The HK-50's and others I did get that feeling for the Droid Factory (not to mention the door on Telos)

6. Yes, it is a plothole, since even when we know who locked it, we cannot complete, and it is also mentioned.

A whole cutscene and convo to announce cut-content

9. Is that so? Where did you find this "proof"

[Dark Moth]

But with HK's sidequest, he makes specific statements toward finding the factory. And you have the subl-level on the military base on the surface of Telos which could not be entered, which may have been part of the factory. And after the game, you still potentially have HK-50's running around hunting you, and you don't know where they came from or who was making them.

 

Yuthura mentioning Sleheyron was only to explain her past, that's it. She didn't make a reference to it as if it would be a potential sideqest, like HK-47 did. You didn't have a sonic imprint sensor that was tracking you, as you found out from HK-47. That's another reference to the quest, there.

 

As for GOTO and remote, see my edited post above.

[GhostofAnakin]

Again, I've never stated there are NO plotholes. So far you guys are harping on about 9 or 10 (some of the VERY minor variety) and using that as conclusive proof. I can come up with 10 plotholes in K1. Is that proof that my argument is more solid? No. It just means that games in general have plotholes. So I'm not sure why you're holding K2 to a standard higher than that found in K1.

[BattleCookiee]

Once again; look here:

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=35668

[Dark Moth]

Again, I've never stated there are NO plotholes.  So far you guys are harping on about 9 or 10 (some of the VERY minor variety) and using that as conclusive proof.  I can come up with 10 plotholes in K1.  Is that proof that my argument is more solid?  No.  It just means that games in general have plotholes.  So I'm not sure why you're holding K2 to a standard higher than that found in K1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Name them. And I think you'll find that they're very insignifant, much more than those in K2. As for plotholes, for a game, that amount of plotholes is a lot, and no, they are not that insignificant. If it's enough to be noticed by a lot of people, then it is significant.

[Musopticon?]

Cut content doesn't equal a plot hole.

[Dark Moth]

Cut content doesn't equal a plot hole.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When it is still mentioned in the game and has an impact on it, it is, and I am referring to the droid planet/factory quest.

 

Hey, I saw that same avatar on SOE! Copier!

Edited August 10, 2005 by Mothman

[BattleCookiee]

Cut content doesn't equal a plot hole.

 

Do we say so: No

Does GoA says we say that: Yes

 

Big difference here...

[GhostofAnakin]

Name them.  And I think you'll find that they're very insignifant, much more than those in K2.  As for plotholes, for a game, that amount of plotholes is a lot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'll get you a list. It's been a while since I've played K1, as opposed to K2 being fresh in our minds. If I don't respond to this, remind me in a PM in about a week.

 

One off the top of my head though is Calo Nord telling Malak that Revan escaped Taris with "a republic officer and a Jedi" when it was impossible for him to have know about the two of them since when you meet him at Davik's, Canderous is in your party which means only ONE of the two would also be.

 

Another BIG one is how Malak gets Saul to ask Revan where the Jedi Enclave is. Considering Malak and Revan found the Star Forge map on Dantooine, you'd think Malak would know this.

 

That's two major ones off the top of my head after not playing a game for over a year.

[Musopticon?]

Cut content doesn't equal a plot hole.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When it is still mentioned in the game and has an impact on it, it is.

 

Hey, I saw that same avatar on SOE! Copier!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I had the avatar first dammit. Kirottu gave it to me.

 

 

But has it impact on the game? As far as I can see a plot hole means that something which has an overall effect to the games story(/plot) is missing.

So the story doesn't make sense as a result.

[Dark Moth]

I had the avatar first dammit. Kirottu gave it to me.

 

 

But has it impact on the game? As far as I can see a plot hole means that something which has an overall effect to the games story(/plot) is missing.

So the story doesn't make sense as a result.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I stand corrected.

 

The droid quest is a plothole, since the quest was cut out, but without it in the game you don't know where the factory is or who was building the droids or how they stole HK's design in the first place. That is when it became a plothole.

 

@GOA:

He was trying to get you to betray the Jedi. And he said afterward that it was a trick question because they already knew where Dantooine was and that it was already destroyed.

Edited August 10, 2005 by Mothman

[BattleCookiee]

I'll get you a list.  It's been a while since I've played K1, as opposed to K2 being fresh in our minds.  If I don't respond to this, remind me in a PM in about a week.

 

One off the top of my head though is Calo Nord telling Malak that Revan escaped Taris with "a republic officer and a Jedi" when it was impossible for him to have know about the two of them since when you meet him at Davik's, Canderous is in your party which means only ONE of the two would also be.

 

Another BIG one is how Malak gets Saul to ask Revan where the Jedi Enclave is.  Considering Malak and Revan found the Star Forge map on Dantooine, you'd think Malak would know this.

 

That's two major ones off the top of my head after not playing a game for over a year.

 

You'll meet Calo in the Cantina, with Carth. 1

Everybody in the Lower Levels heard of your Swoop Race, where you won the Jedi... 2

 

Ah, but didn't it Carth said later: "It doesn't matter what you say, Malak already knew all these things"

[Musopticon?]

^^That's called pwning by the way.

[GhostofAnakin]

You'll meet Calo in the Cantina, with Carth. 1

Everybody in the Lower Levels heard of your Swoop Race, where you won the Jedi... 2

 

Ah, but didn't it Carth said later: "It doesn't matter what you say, Malak already knew all these things"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're speculating on the first one, just like you pointing out I was speculating on Kreia. There was no proof either through dialogue or cutscene that Nord actually saw you with Carth and Bastila. And put it this way, if Carth was in your party in both the cantina meeting AND with Canderous at Davik's, there's no way Calo knew Bastila was with you.

 

Which then brings up the fact that Bastila was shocked if you told Karath the location. She would have said "it's no big deal, Malak already knows since he was there before". But she acts as if you just betrayed a huge secret that Malak wouldn't know. Not to mention Revan would know Malak has been there, since it was said that Dantooine is where him and Revan found the Star Map.

[BattleCookiee]

You're speculating on the first one, just like you pointing out I was speculating on Kreia.  There was no proof either through dialogue or cutscene that Nord actually saw you with Carth and Bastila.  And put it this way, if Carth was in your party in both the cantina meeting AND with Canderous at Davik's, there's no way Calo knew Bastila was with you. 

 

Which then brings up the fact that Bastila was shocked if you told Karath the location.  She would have said "it's no big deal, Malak already knows since he was there before".  But she acts as if you just betrayed a huge secret that Malak wouldn't know.  Not to mention Revan would know Malak has been there, since it was said that Dantooine is where him and Revan found the Star Map.

 

Ehm, no

Carth was most likely (according to the plan of Taris) with you in Cantina and when he got a bounty in one of the housing blocks.

And, like you seem to ignore, everybody in the Lower Level knew of your win and the fact that there was a Jedi as price in the race. You get even into Davik's place, when Davik and Calo comment on your swoop race...

 

2. Revan lost his memory, remember ?

And why Bastila would act like that, don't know.

But fact is that Malak knew, already destroyed it and was just doing it for torturing fun.

 

And now, for you, a real plot hole of KOTOR1:

Why can Bastilla savely swing around with a lightsaber on Taris...

[Dark Moth]

Okay, the Bastila plotholes are significent, but aside from that, I can't think of any others, at least big ones. But even with that in mind, K2 didn't improve on that, either. Which goes along with what I said earlier about K2 not improving enough on the bad things in K1, and in some cases, getting worse. Until GOA lists the 'other' plotholes in K1, the plot holes in K2 still outnumbered the ones in K1 and are more noticeable (as a whole).

Edited August 10, 2005 by Mothman

[GhostofAnakin]

Ehm, no

Carth was most likely (according to the plan of Taris) with you in Cantina and when he got a bounty in one of the housing blocks.

And, like you seem to ignore, everybody in the Lower Level knew of your win and the fact that there was a Jedi as price in the race. You get even into Davik's place, when Davik and Calo comment on your swoop race...

 

But again, that's speculation. I'm not saying that isn't plausible, but I'm saying there is NO VISUAL PROOF that Calo saw you leave Taris with BOTH Carth and Bastila. Yes, he probably put two and two together. But you wanted proof with my explanations for Kreia (ie. actual dialogue or cutscene proof), yet in this case there is also no dialogue or cutscene proof.

 

2. Revan lost his memory, remember  ?

And why Bastila would act like that, don't know.

But fact is that Malak knew, already destroyed it and was just doing it for torturing fun.

 

Revan lost his memory, but when he, Bastila and Carth found the Star Map in the cave on Dantooine Bastila stated, with Revan present "this must have been where Malak and Revan began their journey", which means Revan (the memory less one) would have known Malak knows where Dantooine is. Thus, he shouldn't have worried one way or another about answering Saul's comments.

 

And now, for you, a real plot hole of KOTOR1:

Why can Bastilla savely swing around with a lightsaber on Taris...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No clue. But according to Mothman, K1 had much less. That's 3 plotholes already and I haven't played the game in over a year.

[BattleCookiee]

But again, that's speculation.  I'm not saying that isn't plausible, but I'm saying there is NO VISUAL PROOF that Calo saw you leave Taris with BOTH Carth and Bastila.  Yes, he probably put two and two together.  But you wanted proof with my explanations for Kreia (ie. actual dialogue or cutscene proof), yet in this case there is also no dialogue or cutscene proof

A movie in the Cantina where he sees you and Carth. A movie where he is in that comments about your great Swoop race.

Ah well, guess some people need more proof then others

Revan lost his memory, but when he, Bastila and Carth found the Star Map in the cave on Dantooine Bastila stated, with Revan present "this must have been where Malak and Revan began their journey", which means Revan (the memory less one) would have known Malak knows where Dantooine is.  Thus, he shouldn't have worried one way or another about answering Saul's comments.

You do know that people can move somewhere else, don't you? It's not like you live in the same house from birth to death, is it?

No clue.  But according to Mothman, K1 had much less.  That's 3 plotholes already and I haven't played the game in over a year.

I see 1... Could be me, though :ph34r:

[GhostofAnakin]

A movie in the Cantina where he sees you and Carth. A movie where he is in that comments about your great Swoop race.

Ah well, guess some people need more prove then others 

 

Really? Was Bastila AND Carth present when both these cutscenes played? No. You seem to refuse to read what I said. I said where is the proof he SAW both of them with Revan. BOTH OF THEM. Not Carth, not rumors about a swoop race, but BOTH OF THEM WITH REVAN. There is no actual dialogue or cutscene proof.

 

You do know that people can move somewhere else, don't you? It's not like you live in the same house from birth to death, is it?

 

How the hell does that answer what I put forth? I didn't say a thing about where someone lives. I said Revan knew Malak had been to Dantooine, thus he'd know where the Jedi Enclave was. My God, that answer was ridiculous.

[darknesslord]

the only plot hole I see in kotor 1 is how the hell did calo get out of the building alive when we clearly see the building getting destroyed right after the ebon hawk take off

 

and why none of the siths see bastila when they're all searching for her....

 

anyway, these are not even plot holes, plot holes is when you have to do something, and you can't do it (like the hk factory (not the damn droid planet) and k2 had lot of these, I remember first playing k2 ans now understanding why the hell I was doing all these things. and the frustration at the end of the game, there were no such feeling in k1