sith lord vrook??? "spoiler"

[Dervish]

This is why I hate the Jedi of the KOTOR era, I prefer the Gizkas over them. Nor do I prefer the Sith though... I'd probably just use the Jedi to build up my strength and abandon them. I'd still stick to my favourite side (the Dark side), which would make a simple Dark Jedi, a fallen Jedi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Perhaps we as the audience are supposed to hate the Jedi Order of this era. I too disliked both sides; I actually thought Jolee Bindo was the ideal Jedi

 

I prefer unaffiliated Jedi of the Light (yeah I know, Bindo was gray). Something like Qui Gon.

[Reveilled]

Those three at the meeting are most certainly not Jedi. Not by any stretch of the imagination. The Jedi don't kill their prisoners, this much we know. We can infer from this that they don't torture their prisoners. Even if it would save the entire galaxy, the whole universe, a Jedi wouldn't kill a prisoner. It's the whole mercy thing, the thing the Sith hate most about the Jedi. Now, what greater torture is there to be torn from the force against your will? To a force sensitive, that would probably be a more horrifying and emotionally damaging thing than being raped. that those three masters would not show mercy to the Exile, no matter how much it would benefit the Galaxy, marks them out as Sith. Hell, from what I understand, even Revan (who was also trying to save the Galaxy, it would seem) didn't go about violating individuals on a personal level before her amnesia, and she was the Dark Lord of the Sith!

 

There is no doubt in my mind that those three are Sith, even if they deny it.

[Kalfear]

Those three at the meeting are most certainly not Jedi.  Not by any stretch of the imagination.  The Jedi don't kill their prisoners, this much we know.  We can infer from this that they don't torture their prisoners.  Even if it would save the entire galaxy, the whole universe, a Jedi wouldn't kill a prisoner.  It's the whole mercy thing, the thing the Sith hate most about the Jedi.  Now, what greater torture is there to be torn from the force against your will?  To a force sensitive, that would probably be a more horrifying and emotionally damaging thing than being raped.  that those three masters would not show mercy to the Exile, no matter how much it would benefit the Galaxy, marks them out as Sith.  Hell, from what I understand, even Revan (who was also trying to save the Galaxy, it would seem) didn't go about violating individuals on a personal level before her amnesia, and she was the Dark Lord of the Sith!

 

There is no doubt in my mind that those three are Sith, even if they deny it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which Three? The final three at the start of the ending sequence or 3 of 6 at the holocron message about when you are exiled?

 

While I dont TRUELY consider the three remaining jedis that try to cut you off from the force as real jedi, Id only really call Vrook a sith of the three.

 

reason why is as follows:

 

Whats his name from Nar Shaddar admits he is no longer a jedi and has left the order after you were exiled. Why he is even on the counsil meeting on dant at the end makes no sence to me, but hes left the Jedi order and is now just a cowardly x jedi hiding on Nar Shadar. Id say hes pure neutral if anything as he admits to seeing all the troubles and hardships the exchange is doing to the refugees whom ar e unable to protect themselves yet he decides to do nothing and just watch.

 

Kavar is about the closest there was to a real jedi (prior to the final meeting that is). Hes aiding the Queen with advice and council and playing the political game. Thats very in keeping with Jedi. Now granted hes basically using the people of Onderon as cannon fodder which doesnt sound very jedi like, his goals are based in whats good for all. Hes close to being a real jedi, definately wouldnt clasify him as a sith tho.

 

Vrook is sith all the way. If you see the holocron message of his attempt to have you punished when you were a student you see first hand his motives are driven by jealousy and envy. If you see the council meeting holocron, again him and Atris come off VERY unjedi like. And as others have mentioned else where, he uses one of the militia guards as target practice when training you the Lightsabre style. Also, pretty much everything he says in game in way of conversation comes off as someone who is led by their emotions rather then knowledge.

 

To dig even farther into the Vrook is a sith theory, if you think back to KotOR1, Vrook comes accross VERY unjedi like there as well. Refuseing to see the good in Revan regardless of actions and totally against the councils choice and making that very public and well known.

 

heh, even though I knew Atris was sith from my first meeting with her, Vrook comes across as much more sith like then Atris ever really does.

[Reveilled]

The three at the final meeting is what I mean.

 

And that sole act of tearing the exile from the force, as well as the fact that they speak about it like they have done it before (they know that it is apparently quite painless) is what in my opinion makes them all sith. If the Exile did something like that, s/he would get a ton of darkside points. And if you do consider that the other two are neutral or slightly light sided, an act such as that would be more than enough to send them tumbling over the line of neutrality straight into evil. At the very least, none of those three are Jedi, and while they could be "good" for a certain definition of good (in that they are trying to save the galaxy, even at the expense of others), that definition is not compatible with the Jedi code or the Light Side of the force. That part of the game to me is an exemplary demonstration of that saying "the path to hell is paved with good intentions".

 

I am reminded of Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four when the villain asks the protagonist how he can claim to hold the moral high ground when he claimed previously that he would throw acid in a child's face if it would further his goals.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

Whoa, wait! Atris is a sith? I knew it!

[Dirk Benedict]

I think that calling Vrook a Sith -- or more acurately, a fallen Jedi -- is an interesting observation. It seems that the main theme in Star Wars has always been how people perceive their situations and judge how them as either good or evil... how the Republic was transformed into the Empire, how Anakin was killed by Vader, etc. History itself is not objective, and perceptions change over time, while those who are too close to it only see ambiguities and subtle details and can only react on what they know and see in front of them.

 

The power of the force comes from the person's understanding of how the elements of the universe interact, and the more conviction they have on certain matters, the stronger they become. The difference between light side and darkside is difference between the opposing forces of -- for instance -- inertia and perpetual motion. The Jedi believes in acting only to restore balance, while the Sith believes in the inevitable pursuit of pure power and progress, and its consequences are a natural byproduct. Both sides have their own paradox: sometimes it is neccessary to destroy in order to restore balance, and sometimes is necessary to stop destroying or else there is nothing left.

 

The fact that this pretty obvious to the average person is not the point. The drama of the Jedi and the Sith lies in the fact that they both *HAVE* to believe strongly in either ideology in order use the force their highest potential.

 

The "Grey Jedi", in addition to being rare, is also misperceived. They are not so much "grey", but they actually sway from one side to another so constantly, and they rarely exist in the grey area for long periods of time. Revan, the Exile, Kreia, are powerful Grey Jedis, all who committed great atrocities and yet also sacrificed themselves to save the universe, and are the key players in the turning points of the universe. I would also argue that Anakin/Vader is a Grey Jedi.

[master skidder]

"grey jedi" that a good idea there. i like to hear more