Can 2 ciphers work effectively in the same team in Pillars 1?

[Vasvary5050]

So as it says in the title, can 2 ciphers work effectively in the same team in Pillars 1 (on POTD)? Just to clarify, I don't mean socially can they get on  

I have been using a custom cipher companion from the moment I arrived in Gilded Vale, and they are performing great (great damage and good support). But I've never had Grieving Mother in my party and this time I want to bring her along to see if she has any good story narrative, without getting rid of my original cipher. The thing is, GM's stats spread strikes me as a bit meh for a cipher (too much con and res and not enough perception), and I'm not sure how best to make effective use of 2 ciphers at the same time. I guess both on the back line, one focused on damage dealing, and the other on CC, is one way to go? 

Any suggestions?

As a side question, my party is currently level 8. What's a good level for Cragholdt Bluffs and The White March? I've done those areas on previous run but that was not POTD (and I remember bits of it being fairly rough even without it being on POTD). And I don't remember what level I went to TWM previously (probably about level 8/9).

Edited May 14 by Vasvary5050

[Boeroer]

Level 8 is okay to start the White March. Crägholdt Bluffs is high level stuff. The mercenaries are already tough, but the vessels of Concelhaut are even tougher.

I see no reason why 2 Ciphers wouldn't work.

Her attributes aren't that bad. She's just not a min-maxed offensive glass cannon. I mean 10 RES and 12 CON is hardly on the high side. She's got nice DEX and INT.

I personally think that CC (especially mind control such as Whisper of Treason and Puppet Master) is the best use of focus. To deal weapon damage in order to then deal spell damage seems kind of redundant - might as well continue to deal weapon damage with the help of Borrowed Instincts and Tactical Meld. Of course if it's a CC spell that also does damage (like Mind Wave or Amplified Wave): even better.

But two Ciphers who dominate enemies impact every fight against non-immune foes significantly. 

You can make them both ranged (a blunderbuss  specifically aimed at low DR targets - is a good way to gain big bursts of focus), but Grieving Mother can also be used in melee. Melee combat usually has a bit higher dps than ranged in theory, which should yield more focus. With Time Parasite, Llawran's Stick (quarterstaff with speed) and durgan steel she can reach 0 recovery. She can also stay behind the front line with such a reach weapon. Durance's staff is a nice backup weapon against crush-immune foes then.    

[Chaospread]

WM is ok for a party of level 8, better 9/10 I guess.
Stay away from Crägholdt Bluffs until at least level 12

A part from what Boeroer said, that is all right as usual, a Cipher can be useful also to buff party at (very) higher levels  

[Vasvary5050]

Thanks Boeroer and Chaosspread. 

I'll probably head to WM about level 9. 

I decided to run both ciphers on the backline (I benched Segani to make a spot for GM), and to be honest, it feels great. Very smooth and good fun (ciphers are my favourite class!). That said, I may re-spec GM to use Lead Spitter as I just picked that up. I've never had a huge amount of success with blunderbusses but I would like to make them work.

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Vasvary5050 said:

That said, I may re-spec GM to use Lead Spitter as I just picked that up. I've never had a huge amount of success with blunderbusses but I would like to make them work.

It's a great way to get a huge burst of focus right at the start of the encounter - if you can shoot at a "soft" target. Having a lot focus at you disposal very early in battle can be a big advantage.
Blunderbusses (especially when lashes are involved) are not good against high DR foes, but in most battles there's a few weaklings.

Leadspitter + Ryona's Vambraces + Penetrating Shot gives you a whole lot of DR bypass, which is good for the pierce damage, but DR bypass doesn't work for the lashes on the weapon (like a burning lash enchantment and/or Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr). And since those lashes are based on mutiple projectiles with individually low dmg numbers, they often do not get past enemies' DR in the first place. That's a shame for a Cipher because they would generate additional focus, too (if they can penetrate the enemies' DR). So it's best to target not too thick armor - even if you have a lot of DR bypass (if you can help it).

Against high DR foes it's not a bad idea to bring a backup pistol (same weapon focus).

Blunderbuss + Combusting Wounds is great by the way. 

[Vasvary5050]

Hi Boeroer.  

In previous post you said: "Against high DR foes it's not a bad idea to bring a backup pistol (same weapon focus)."

Been thinking about this a bit for ranged cipher. My issue with blunderbuss and pistol is that (a) once fired they both take a long time to reload, and (b) I like to have to have my characters carrying 2 weapons covering at least 2 or 3 damage types (e.g. war bow and wand), and blunderbuss isn't so great if there aren't any obvious targets with low DR in the fight. I could take the talent that gives me an extra weapon slot so I could get blunderbuss, pistol and something else, I guess. I'm not sure. At level 9 (my level at moment), cipher only has 4 talents, and 2 of those go on draining and biting whip, which doesn't leave a lot of spare talents for this kind of building. ... I guess my question is, what talents would you go for on a cipher using a blunderbuss?

[Boeroer]

Weapon Focus and Gunner. Penetrating Shot and Marksman later.

Penetrating Shot means +30 extra damage per shot (6*5) - it's worth the slower recovery. The reloading is not affected. 

 

[Vasvary5050]

Lol, I know Grieving Mother is veiling who she is, but after dozens of fights where she is blasting the crap out of enemies with her abilities, I figured the party would realise she is a cipher rather than some strange lady just following us around. And then Eder made me realise that its literally only me that can see her, when he says when we ask Grieving Mother to help with his quest: "Look I appreciate the initiative, but I don't think there is much chance that this nice stranger lady happens to be a cipher." Did he not wonder at the psychic howls and occasional disintegrations of enemies.