Cipher build for SOLO in POTD with the new patch

[davoker]

Now that the Cipher no longer has that "trick" with Psychic/Brutal Backlash that caused dragons and many enemies to be permanently stunned (which was obviously a bug, yes, I'm the one who put effort into reporting this so it would get fixed, thanks to the beta patch, and luckily I was heard xD), it's time to talk about builds.

When discussing a SOLO run in POTD (without Triple Crown, I like being able to reload if I die xD), without that talent, what viable alternatives do we have? How important are attributes depending on the style you choose?

For example, I was thinking of something like this:

• MIG – 10
• CON – 8
• DEX – 18 (17+1 for Elf (Pale) race)
• PER – 16 (15+1 for Elf (Pale) race)
• INT – 18 (17+1 for Old Vailia)
• RES – 8

But I think it might be viable to lower DEX to 10 (no less) and increase MIG, or even leave CON and RES at 10 and put MIG at 14, or CON at 10 and MIG at 16. I'm also considering lowering PER to 14 and increasing the other attributes even more (DEX stays at 10).

All this with the idea of playing a tank Cipher, using plate armor, a shield, and a one-handed weapon. The goal is to have good survivability, and with a small shield, even with DEX at 10 and self-buffs, I think it should be possible to generate enough Concentration.

What do you think?

PS: Alternative:

• MIG – 18
• CON – 10
• DEX – 10
• PER – 15
• INT – 19
• RES – 6

6 RES is the absolute minimum I want so I can fully upgrade the Company Captain's Cap, which requires 20 RES. I can reach this in combat using a skill from the ring you get for killing the fool in the Battle of Yenwood, combined with various bonuses (food, resting, etc.) and RES-boosting gear. Reaching 20 RES with 6 base isn't difficult.

Besides, I'm playing a tank, so dropping RES to 6 already feels painful enough.

Edited February 19 by davoker

[Chaospread]

On 2/20/2025 at 12:05 AM, davoker said:

All this with the idea of playing a tank Cipher, using plate armor, a shield, and a one-handed weapon. The goal is to have good survivability, and with a small shield, even with DEX at 10 and self-buffs, I think it should be possible to generate enough Concentration.

You mean Focus, I guess.

Anyway, alternative stats is better imho. I'd prefer skip DEX with PER, PER 10 is viable and I like high DEX characters. Best should be  dump RES and CON and MAX INT, DEX before and then MIG and PER as you wish. If you must have RES 6 (good reason that you explained), I'd dump CON and raise DEX, but if you prefer, you can keep CON mid (maybe 8 or 7 to gain 2 points for others stat, it can be raise to 9 or 10 with bonus and eq easily) and then tend to have high DEX and PER instead of MIG... let me tray:

MIG - 14
CON - 7
DEX - 18
PER - 14
INT - 19
RES - 6
So you max DEX and INT, PER and MIG with bonus can go high enough, if you prefer MAX PER or MIG, distribution like 12 and 16 have little sense, maybe the theory should be MAX PER but also in TCS PER 14 is absolutely viable , Chiper can increase it easily and MIG 14 is a good compromise.

If you MAX PER, you can drop shield with weapons style, best style for a Cipher is two weapons and with high PER you can get "defense" through afflictions of weapons and abilities. Plate armor can be good early game, later even naked is better.

IIRC in PoE1 you can respec full stats and abilities/talent, so you can start with plate, shield, more CON and high PER and then respec with more MIG, light armor and two weapons.

[davoker]

Sorry, double post :S

Edited February 21 by davoker

[davoker]

4 hours ago, Chaospread said:

You mean Focus, I guess.

Anyway, alternative stats is better imho. I'd prefer skip DEX with PER, PER 10 is viable and I like high DEX characters. Best should be  dump RES and CON and MAX INT, DEX before and then MIG and PER as you wish. If you must have RES 6 (good reason that you explained), I'd dump CON and raise DEX, but if you prefer, you can keep CON mid (maybe 8 or 7 to gain 2 points for others stat, it can be raise to 9 or 10 with bonus and eq easily) and then tend to have high DEX and PER instead of MIG... let me tray:

MIG - 14
CON - 7
DEX - 18
PER - 14
INT - 19
RES - 6
So you max DEX and INT, PER and MIG with bonus can go high enough, if you prefer MAX PER or MIG, distribution like 12 and 16 have little sense, maybe the theory should be MAX PER but also in TCS PER 14 is absolutely viable , Chiper can increase it easily and MIG 14 is a good compromise.

If you MAX PER, you can drop shield with weapons style, best style for a Cipher is two weapons and with high PER you can get "defense" through afflictions of weapons and abilities. Plate armor can be good early game, later even naked is better.

IIRC in PoE1 you can respec full stats and abilities/talent, so you can start with plate, shield, more CON and high PER and then respec with more MIG, light armor and two weapons.

I ended up going with the alternative stats in the end. The idea was to use a weapon and shield, but I'm almost level 6 and haven't used the shield yet. I'm using two one-handed weapons because I feel more comfortable with them for now. I generate focus (which in my language is "concentration" xD) decently. The plan is to use Angio's Gambeson and Potion of Deleterious Alacrity of Motion, so having DEX at 10 doesn't worry me. Alacrity potions and Angio's Gambeson help with casting speed.

I raise PER from 15 to 18 early on with Lilith's Shawl, and with some bonuses, I can increase it a bit more. I don’t remember if Cipher has anything to boost it further, it's been years since I last played one.

I can stick with the idea of using Angio's Gambeson, or I could just rely on Alacrity potions and keep using plate armor. But I’m certain I want to use dual weapons. That wasn’t my initial plan, I wanted to be more of a tank. In fact, I still think that for some fights, equipping a small shield wouldn't be a bad idea.

Lowering CON worries me. I'm thinking about those swamp dragons and a few other fights where high CON is really beneficial, so I don’t really consider dropping it below 10. I want anything that adds CON to be a pure benefit, not just recovering and then benefiting. I'm not a fan of min/maxing, but I do use it sometimes. For example, why would I want DEX on a Chanter? DEX out 

PS: I don't remember if the Cipher has any AoE spells, so far I'm missing that, although "Antipathetic Field" is extremely useful for it. There are some AoE spells at this level, but nothing surpasses Antipathetic. Later on, I think there are two or three spells, at least one or two are marked as AoE, and another one isn't AoE but pierces through multiple enemies, if I remember correctly, a spear or something like that.

I'm very used to the Chanter, Wizard, Druid, and Priest (omg... leveling a Priest to level 5 in SOLO POTD feels like living in hell), even though I've played Cipher a lot in the past, I never actually finished a run with it, so I don't remember much, we'll see how it goes.

Edited February 21 by davoker

[Chaospread]

Angio's is very good, potions of DAoM is ok but you need a lot of resources and in some fights you need those slots for other consumables I think. MIN MAX is not necessary, it is only optimization and ok, DEX is more important in Deadfire, in PoE1 you can reach 0 recovery and there is durgan steel etc. so it is ok. I keep my idea, 8 or 10 CON is not an great difference.
Dual weapons is almost always a must. Plate armor in solo is very hard to wear late game... you'll tell to me
Cipher has AoE spells, but in SOLO in PoE1 in some battles you can also use (or have to use) scrolls of paralysis, confusion ecc
I think a Chiper can also raise PER, but I mean ACC for sure

[davoker]

I always try not to overuse scrolls, but with Cipher in SOLO I think I'll have to use a few.

In comparison (and in my experience), priest, chanter and druid can be served alone even without scrolls, that if, all I carry as tankers with shield, I'm making an exception hehe

In fact, my last run with a Druid had the exact same attributes as the ones I posted here, the first set, not the alternative one, but with 1 more point in INT and PER in exchange for having 8 CON instead of 10. My Priest has literally the same attributes as the alternative version of this Cipher, actually, just 1 less point in MIG in exchange for 1 more in PER. Angio's Gambeson, the Priest takes care of himself, he can handle everything, though leveling him up to at least level 5, where he really starts to shine, is really tough.

Edited February 21 by davoker

[Chaospread]

All casters (and some martial classes) have great difficulty early level, maybe only druids are exceptions. Scrolls are not needed actually, except bosses/dragons fights and Cipher can beat some of these without scrolls.

[davoker]

5 hours ago, Chaospread said:

All casters (and some martial classes) have great difficulty early level, maybe only druids are exceptions. Scrolls are not needed actually, except bosses/dragons fights and Cipher can beat some of these without scrolls.

Not at all, only the Priest is hard for me to level up in the first act, the Druid would be second, but he levels up fairly comfortably. The Cipher is quite easy, and the Wizard is definitely VERY easy to level up, even in those early levels. If you know how to handle him, the first act goes pretty smoothly.

I have my own way of playing, which is why I can't do TSC. I have to clear every map as soon as I see it, no matter what level I am. If I enter a map, I have to clear it. This means that, depending on the class, I have to die many times because things rarely work out on the first try. For example, in this video of mine, the bears in the cave at the start of the game, level 2 with a Cipher, took several attempts:

Osrya, with priest, level 4 only
 

I've done this with every class I've played, it's my OCD if I enter a map, I have to clear it, I leave nothing behind. This makes it really hard to do a challenge like Triple Crown. The thing about that challenge is that to complete it, you have to play in a way that simply isn't my style. I haven't seen a single Triple Crown run where they don't stealth through everything, ignoring fights, going straight for gear, and never bothering to go back and clear out enemies.

They constantly leave enemies behind and rely on stealth to avoid fights. Then, when they finally do engage in combat, they just spam scrolls, paralysis scrolls and Maelstrom over and over. If things go south, they just run from the fight, they don’t want to risk dying.

That’s not my playstyle. Every class is played the same way, and to me, it’s boring. It’s a way that literally anyone can beat the game on PoTD. There's no challenge or real achievement in it for me, but that's just my personal opinion.

Yes, I die a few times, I've never finished the game without dying at least 9 or 10 times, sometimes a bit more (and when some fights don't go well at all, I could lose count of how many times I die throughout the game ). But I play my way. I limit myself on consumables, I use scrolls, potions, etc., but if I have to use 10 scrolls, that means I’m doing something VERY wrong. So I let myself redo a fight that went well just because I used too many scrolls, just to do it again without using any, just because I can.

I respect the boring way people do the TSC challenge, but it’s not for me. I’d rather die a few times than be bored because every class plays the same except for minor differences.
PS: This is just my opinion of course.

Edited Monday at 02:04 PM by davoker

[Chaospread]

1 hour ago, davoker said:

I have to die many times because things rarely work out on the first try

Well, any class level easily if you can die how many times you want

1 hour ago, davoker said:

For example, in this video of mine, the bears in the cave at the start of the game, level 2 with a Cipher, took several attempts:

That's why I said druid is easier: they can manage cave bear more easily due to Charm Beast and Hold Beasts, Cipher and Priest can come close with some charm and block, but Druids are the best in that and until Caed Nua XP are restricted also in SOLO, so cave bear XP can make the difference.

1 hour ago, davoker said:

and the Wizard is definitely VERY easy to level up

I don't know if something has changed, but a Wizard PotD SOLO TCS has to go stealth many times till Caed Nua. Yes you can gather XP points quicly that way, but I've never seen a wizard doing all fights before he reached level 5 or similar.

1 hour ago, davoker said:

I've done this with every class I've played, it's my OCD if I enter a map, I have to clear it, I leave nothing behind.

Yes I like playing that way too. Three or foru runs, then it begins to be boring

1 hour ago, davoker said:

They constantly leave enemies behind and rely on stealth to avoid fights. Then, when they finally do engage in combat, they just spam scrolls, paralysis scrolls and Maelstrom over and over. If things go south, they just run from the fight, they don’t want to risk dying.

You know, it's TCS, if you die you have to restart form the begin... it's normal they play that way

1 hour ago, davoker said:

I limit myself on consumables, I use scrolls, potions, etc., but if I have to use 10 scrolls, that means I’m doing something VERY wrong

Yes, house rules, you can use them. But depending on the class and the fight, you need consumable spamming. A last level wizard or priest (maybe also Cipher) can manage almost any encounter without consumables, but I don't think a rogue or fighter can beat Brynlod or Llengrath without extensive use of scrolls...

[davoker]

There are classes that are more dependent on scrolls, yes, they are the ones I don't usually use 

I assure you that wizard can handle everything in the first act, but there is a key to this, and it is called Belt of the Royal Deadfire Cannoneer, you can easily get enough money to buy that belt and the Bronze Horn Figurine, the fire shield and the fire area magic of that belt when you upgrade them (very easy to upgrade to the maximum in 5 minutes, little more) are key, added to “Chill Fog” (Chill Fog stacked is something very beastly, it's the best thing the wizard has the first 2 acts, almost the best xD), plus the talent that makes you more tanky (can't remember the name) that you get early and some more magic make the wizard, in my opinion, the easiest class to upgrade in the first act, above even the chanter tanky (for me the second easiest to upgrade the first 5 levels, all of act 1).

Raedric at level 5, the wizard is the most beastly thing there is, it turns POTD into a walk, obviously you have to use some consumables, at those levels you depend on some healing and evasion:

 

 

Edited Monday at 06:59 PM by davoker

[Chaospread]

Impressive. Anyway, a druid with spiritshift can beat any (in the right order) in act 1 from level 1 with less equipment. The same some other martial classes (unless rogue and ranger). A wizard need to be level 3 (or more) to start working. But I admit wiz can outclass a priest.