Some questions about takn-Herald (Chanter + Paladin).

[Konst]

Hello.
I'm building Herald-tank in a party (passive unconditional chants, paladin auras, healing, revival and infinite invocations - make Herald the best class for tank and tank the best role for Herald).

Full party roles are standard for cRPG 3melee + 2range:
 - tank - this Herald
 - melee striker (GG),
 - melee damager (Eder / Sefaren / Palegina),
 - healer-buffer (Xoti / Tekehu)
 - range CC or damager (Aloth / Maia / Ydwin)

I've come to some point and can't decide - should this herald be "damaging" or "buffing" tank:
 - damaging: Energized(Their Champion Braved) + any AoE damaging chants & invocations (Her Revenge Swept)
 - buffing: long summons (For They Do), and buffs (Set To Their Purpose, Each Kill Fed, Nor Flame Nor Blade)

So both builds looks very viable and fruitful for the party composition. Have different advantages and disadvantages (damaging - more interrupts && paladin heals (zeal by virtuous triumph); buffing: more viable itself and party - less probability of unhappy death), and approximately equally useful.

So is there any advice or critics, or maybe both this builds are garbage?

And some particular questions:
1. Which build from these 2 is better as party tank for some relaxed playing (with customized AI scripts)?
2. Are there some unclear good tricks (or fatal disadvantages) in these builds "every player should know"?
3. Do chanter "Each Kill Fed His Fury" (+5 Might) additive with monk tenacious (other Might inspirations) and gives character +10 Might in conjunction eventually?

Edited October 19, 2023 by Konst

[Kaylon]

You should get the Instruments of Death, Her Revenge... and Their Companion...  and let buffing to more specialized classes. "Each Kill..." doesn't stack with other might inspirations, at least for me...

[Boeroer]

Regarding "tricks": an offensively minded Herald (Troubadour) can use Ring of Focused Flame + Dragon Thrashed + Brisk Recitation in combination with Their Champion (Energized) to get +10 ACC for the chant which raises the chance for crits (in addition to the damage the chant does) - which in turn leads to AoE interrupts via chanting. Sacred Immolation also will interrupt via crit when combined with Energized and will also get +10 ACC. Ring of Focused Flame is an early item used by many Paladins - so if one uses that already this "trick" can be an additional way to let it improve your actions. Potential AoE interrupts every few secs can be very impactful on the battlefield, especially when you face multiple enemies who use dangerous abilities (mostly casters of all sorts). Such a Herald can slowly "melt" and disturb enemy groups just by standing around. Add Brand Enemy to the arsenal and later get the Blackened Plate (which can have a life draining aura) and add the interrupts and this can be effective and fun to play imo. Brand Enemy is fast and has no recovery - it is also cheap. So you can apply it to al lot of enemies at the start of battle quickly (it's an auto-hit, too). All those little ticks of damage add up quickly. If you meet fire-immune enemies you have to do something else though (e.g. switch to Soft Winds of Death).  

However, the invocations Kaylon mentioned, especially Instruments of Death, are usually the more effective approach. Summons are among the best tools any character can use, and Intruments of Death are very good summons on top. 

The question which route (defensive vs. offensive) is more fun to play has to be answered individually. I personally find puppeteering summons a bit boring - but there is no doubt they are very useful and other players might enjoy steering them around. 

There's also the chant "Many Lives Pass By" which is very good at summoning skeletons every 6 seconds (or every 3 with Brisk Recitation) which cannot be controlled by the player but run on AI. That's a type of summon that doesn't require any maintenance but is still great at diverting enemies or good as "sacrifice" for special tricks that require allies to go down (for example: if you have a Single Class Paladin in the party those skeletons can trigger Divine Retribution, giving the Paladin +2 Zeal each time a skeleton dies - and they die very quickly - another example is that a Berserker (confused bc. of Frenzy) might kill skeletons with his friendly-fire Carnage - which will trigger his Bloodlust and Blood Thirst).  

Edited October 20, 2023 by Boeroer

[Konst]

1 hour ago, Kaylon said:

You should get the Instruments of Death, Her Revenge... and Their Companion...  and let buffing to more specialized classes. "Each Kill..." doesn't stack with other might inspirations, at least for me...

Assumingly:
"Their Companion" <=> "Their Champion",
Self buffs do not apply to summons

Wouldn't  it be prudent to focus on either "damage + interrupt" or "summon + buff" because of attributes synergies?
================================================

I always thought:
 - Summoning attributes - Int, Resolve (secondary Con)
 - Buffing attributes - Int, Resolve, (secondary Con, Dex - not in this build)
 - Damaging attributes - Perception, Resolve (secondary Might, Con)
 - Interrupting attributes - Perception, Resolve (secondary Con)

So if we choose "Instruments of Death" + "Their Champion"  we ends up with MAD (too many attributes demanded, neither are perfect) character.
And this character - is a mediocre "passive damager-interrupter" and mediocre "summoner".

So wouldn't  it be prudent to focus on either "damage + interrupt" or "summon + buff"?

Edited October 20, 2023 by Konst

[Konst]

41 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Add Brand Enemy to the arsenal and later get the Blackened Plate (which can have a life draining aura) and add the interrupts and this can be effective and fun to play imo.  

....

There's also the chant "Many Lives Pass By" which is very good at summoning skeletons every 6 seconds (or every 3 with Brisk Recitation) which cannot be controlled by the player but run on AI. That's a type of summon that doesn't require any maintenance but is still great at diverting enemies or good as "sacrifice" for special tricks that require allies to go down (for example: if you have a Single Class Paladin in the party those skeletons can trigger Divine Retribution,

T.Y.
Surviving and gradually benefiting party (melding + interrupting in case of "damaging Herald") - exactly what I meant when called Herald "the best tank".

Do I understand correctly - Blackened Plate in "damage upgrade" requires hit and in case of energized + crit leads to interrupting enemies (I've upgraded it for healing)?
About Skeleton and +2Zeal - thank you a lot. I've always played MC, besides SC Wizard, intending to see more classes for one game passing.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Konst

[Boeroer]

I forgot:

For a support/tank apporoach the resistance chants can be very good, too. They "only" provide resistance instead of immunity - but how the system works they kind of "eat" away afflictions completely. Especially if you use Brisk Recitation.

Example: if you have a paralyzed party member and sing the chant "Seven Men, Onto the Deck They Went" the paralyze will get downgraded to immobilized. But once the chant hits again (eiter 6 seconds after of 3 secs after with Brisk Recitation) the immobilized invocation again gets downgraded to hobbled. Then again to nothing if the chant hits again.

Since those three chants each provide resistance against 2 attribute afflictions (DEX+MIG, INT+PER and RES+CON) you can make your party quasi-immune to all afflictions by repeating the fitting phrase. Which is not flashy - but can be very useful against enemies who makes heavy use of afflictions. 

[Boeroer]

29 minutes ago, Konst said:

Do I understand correctly - Blackened Plate in "damage upgrade" requires hit and leads to crit with interrupt in case of energized (I've upgraded it for healing)?

No, the damaging enchantment puts a "damage-over-time" status effect on every hostile creature in the area of effect. It's an auto-hit, it doesn't make attacks rolls so it is not able to critically hit. It just slowly "ticks" away the health of all hostile creatures in the AoE.

You can add items that do seperate hit rolls - for example the Great Sword "Effort" with its enchantment "Hemorrhaging". It adds a hit roll of either sicken or hobble to ALL other critical attack rolls you do (including spells, chants, you name it). And the sicken/hobble effect counts as weapon attack roll, so it can trigger other items' hit rolls, mainly Hylea's Talons DoT attack and the Ring of Clenched Muscle affliction - which can also crit. In other words: you deliver "invisible" weapon attack rolls (which don't do  damage but apply sicken or hobble) with your chant- and invocation crits basically. This can lead to an excessive amount of hit rolls on all enemies in the chant AoE which raises the cance for multiple crits+interrupts a lot obviously. This can be useful for an offensive Herald. But of course a Great Sword means less sturdyness than a shield.     

Edited October 20, 2023 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

I just remembered that The Dragon Thrashed doesn't profit from Ring of Focused Flame. Eh... sorry. 

But if it's about more ACC for the chants in order to interrupt more you can use the Helm of the White Void and use the chant "The Long Night's Drink" istead. It doesn't deal damage but it does work with "Rymrgand's Influence", giving it +10 ACC. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

On 10/20/2023 at 3:55 PM, Konst said:

Assumingly:
"Their Companion" <=> "Their Champion",
Self buffs do not apply to summons

Wouldn't  it be prudent to focus on either "damage + interrupt" or "summon + buff" because of attributes synergies?
================================================

I always thought:
 - Summoning attributes - Int, Resolve (secondary Con)
 - Buffing attributes - Int, Resolve, (secondary Con, Dex - not in this build)
 - Damaging attributes - Perception, Resolve (secondary Might, Con)
 - Interrupting attributes - Perception, Resolve (secondary Con)

So if we choose "Instruments of Death" + "Their Champion"  we ends up with MAD (too many attributes demanded, neither are perfect) character.
And this character - is a mediocre "passive damager-interrupter" and mediocre "summoner".

So wouldn't  it be prudent to focus on either "damage + interrupt" or "summon + buff"?

You need Energized from Their Companion... which should be used either for interrupting with chants (as Boeroer explained) or for added penetration for melee/Her Revenge... The Instruments of Death don't need many buffs because they tank very well already and the healing from your chants/auras is more than enough to keep them alive for their entire duration. As a herald you should focus on your versatility and pick the best option for each situation. Having summons at your disposal doesn't mean you have to use them every fight - but if you encounter hard hitting enemies it's better to have more meat shields or distractions. Against many weak enemies you don't need summons - you will want to spam Her Revenge... Other enemies can be vulnerable to interrupts and then you can use Their Companion + Thick Grew... and so on... Herald is not boring if you make use of all the tools at your disposal, but can be played also in a "lazy" way, piloted by the AI, because he's almost unkillable and can carry the entire party by himself. 

Another "must have" combo is Many Lives... + Bardatto's Luxury (enchanted with Death and Taxes) for the Hardy inspiration which stacks with everything.