A Rework to the Tools/Weapon Upgrading System…

[ObsidianOwl]

A Rework to the Tools/Weapon Upgrading System…

 

I’ll start out saying immediately that the rocks of Quartzite and Marble need to respawn, period.

 

It would help this game flow better in player progression and honestly it’s adding unnecessary gating to a pointless extent considering:

 

1. You can’t even upgrade tools to the full extent after essentially beating the last boss in the game (meaning that you aren’t able to interact with the full extent of upgrades with tier I, tier II tools, and even tier III tools (kind of…)).

 

2. The upgrades are pretty much a bonus to be put on weapons, so to me it seems kinda weird for it to be gated from players/creates a very bad flow with the progression of the game (makes players either horde rocks that they get or spend it unnecessarily on weapons they won’t be using for the majority of the game).

 

3. I believe the reason for making the craftable recipes for the rocks was to make it less grindy but in the long run I think it actually kind of accomplishes the opposite effect…

 

Grinding in survival games is going to happen one way or another I believe. The thing that separates a good grind from a bad grind is… a lot actually, as it depends on many different variables within a game. However I think a general rule of thumb would be that if there are many different types of mechanics working together, it makes the grind more entertaining and less noticeable. The fact they limited only Larvae, Wolf Spiders, and Black Ox Beetles to the upgrading process is alright but combining the fact that they are the only way to get more of the upgrade rocks is really lackluster. This in comparison to if the rocks were to respawn well… The rocks are placed everywhere around the yard and they are always placed in areas with lots of different types of bugs to fight, more than any of the bugs needed to create the upgraded rocks. The upgraded rocks are also placed in challenging areas so it’s definitely more exciting than fighting the same enemy over and over again within a select few areas.

 

This is overall why they need to respawn. Even if the time to respawn is lengthy, I think it’s way better for the progression and flow of the game.

 

I think the respawn time should be somewhere between 2-3 days (more so 3).

 

With all this said though I would still keep in the craftable bug rock recipes as it would provide a second option to getting more rocks.

 

With that though I would add an extra step to the bug crafting recipes…

Brittle Whetstone - 1x Sap, 1x Larvae Spike, 2x Red Ant Parts

 

Sturdy Whetstone - 1x Sap, 1x Larvae Spike, 2x Black Ant Parts

 

Supreme Whetstone - 1x Sap, 1x Larvae Spike, 2x Fire Ant Parts

 

This is only talking about tools and weapon upgrades, however I believe that certain topics in here could translate over to upgrading armor sets. With that said this is how I would rework the upgrading system for tools/weapons…

 

Tier I Tools

 

Tier I Upgrading phase:

 

(All Brittle Whetstones)

 

Lvl 1. - 1x

 

Lvl 2. - 2x

 

Lvl 3. - 3x

 

Lvl 4. - 4x

 

Lvl 5. - 5x

 

Tier II Upgrading phase:

 

(Respawnable) Tier I Candy Rocks/Shards - Can be broken with a Tier I Hammer (Gives two candy shards). These should be placed in the beginning part of the yard.

 

(Craftable) Flavored Whetstones - Tier I Candy Upgrades: 1x Candy of choice, 1x Brittle Whetstone

 

Lvl 6. - 6x             F.W. - 6x

 

Lvl 7. - 7x     or     F.W. - 7x

 

Lvl 8. - 8x              F.W. - 8x

 

Tier III Upgrading phase:

 

Lvl 9. - 9x     or     F.W. - 9x

 

Lvl 10./Last Upgrade - 10x     or     F.W. - 10x

 

Tier II Tools

 

Tier I Upgrading phase:

 

(All Mighty Globs)

 

Lvl 1. - 1x

 

Lvl 2. - 2x

 

Lvl 3. - 3x

 

Lvl 4. - 4x

 

Lvl 5. - 5x

 

Tier II Upgrading phase:

 

Flavored Globs - Would stay the same…

 

Lvl 6. - 6x             F.G. - 6x

 

Lvl 7. - 7x     or     F.G. - 7x

 

Lvl 8. - 8x              F.G. - 8x

 

Tier III Upgrading phase:

 

Lvl 9. - 9x     or     F.G. - 9x

 

Lvl 10./Last Upgrade - 10x     or     F.G. - 10x

 

Tier III Tools

 

Tier I Upgrading phase:

 

(All Mighty Jewels)

 

Lvl 1. - 1x

 

Lvl 2. - 2x

 

Lvl 3. - 3x

 

Lvl 4. - 4x

 

Lvl 5. - 5x

 

Tier II Upgrading phase:

 

Flavored Jewels - Would stay the same…

 

Lvl 6. - 6x             F.J. - 6x

 

Lvl 7. - 7x     or     F.J. - 7x

 

Lvl 8. - 8x               F.J. - 8x

 

Tier III Upgrading phase:

 

Lvl 9. - 9x     or     F.J. - 9x

 

Lvl 10./Last Upgrade - 10x     or     F.J. - 10x

 

Important Stuff

 

Using lower tier rocks to craft higher tier rocks -

 

(Craftable) 1x Sturdy Whetstone <- 2x or 3x Brittle Whetstones (depending on if 2 isn’t enough).

 

(Craftable) 1x Supreme Whetstone <- 2x or 3x Sturdy Whetstones (depending on if 2 isn’t enough).

 

This is to funnel lesser rocks into making higher tier rocks for higher tier weapons (still makes lesser rocks useful even after the last two tiers are over with). The higher tier rocks still drop lower tiers of rocks so the overall collection of ratios of rocks should be… B.W. - 1/1, ST.W. - ⅔, SU.W. - ⅓ 

 

Craftable Rocks recipes relocations (Current bug recipes for creating rocks) -

 

This is for the recipes you create with bug parts, relocating where you get them progression wise through the labs/chips…

 

Brittle Whetstone - Unlockable after the Hedge Lab Chip

 

Sturdy Whetstone - Unlockable after the Black Ant Lab Chip

 

Supreme Whetstone - Unlockable after the Termite Hill Chip

 

Overall, I think that this would be better for the game and... I am very tired of talking now, so I’m going to stop.

[iMiAMi2014]

In my opinion, there is currently an overabundance of Brittle stones, a sufficient amount of Sturdy, and a categorical lack of Supreme. As a result, to improve the balance, it makes sense to add to the game only the possibility of mutual transformation of stones (in both directions) and, perhaps, adjust the places of recipes unlocking. Everything else (respawn, changing the recipes themselves, the number of upgrade steps) does not make much sense.

[ObsidianOwl]

The way I kind of imagine this is your using Brittle Whetstones for Tier I weapons only for it's full path, then Sturdy Whetstones/Mighty Globs for Tier II weapons for it's full path, and then Supreme Whetstones/Mighty Jewels for Tier III weapons for it's full path. That's why I also gave two new crafting recipes into funneling making higher tier rocks with lower tier rocks, as I know that there's way too much Brittle than Sturdy, and way more Sturdy than Supreme. I do think generally though the rocks do need to respawn in some way or another, I think most people want that back and honestly it does make the game feel way more grindy (Not in a good way). I also made a new crafting recipe for the rocks and modified one already in the game. If we are talking about the bug made rocks (the one I modified), then the reason I added the ant parts was to give an extra step into making rocks and give the ant parts some more use. Lets say that rocks were able to respawn again, I would think having both craftable rocks and respawnable rocks would be way too much, however I do like having multiple options for attaining upgrades. That's way I added an extra step to the bug rock crafting recipes with this new rework in mind. I placed the craftable Brittle Whetstones(Bug parts) at the Hedge because you would be mostly using Tier I rocks with Tier I weapons, then I placed the craftable Sturdy Whetstones(Bug parts) at the Black Ant Lab because you would be mostly using Tier II rocks with Tier II weapons at that point in game, and then I placed the craftable Supreme Whetstones(Bug parts) at the Termite Hill because you would be transitioning into using Tier III weapons at that point in the game (Also would make the Termite Hill more alluring to go to). Obviously, this might not be the most balanced idea, without some modifications of course, but I do think that it is well thought out at least. I also think the way that this was formatted wasn't the best (I wrote this on a google doc and it copied over weirdly). I hope I may clarified a little bit more on what I was trying to get across.

[BlackJack67]

I really like OP (Obsidian Owl’s) post. I think it’s awesome how much love and care the dev’s have put into the game, and with a little more tweaking I think it would be a perfect game!

PROBLEMS-

I totally agree that the upgrade system needs to be revised, especially with tier III. (I think I’m ~in day 380ish within game, and that’s with very seldom sleeping.)

I don’t care as much about base building, so the majority of my time has been grinding for resources. even with picking up almost, if not all of the tier III stones, I still only have one or two weapons at level 9, a small handful at level 8, and finally have most of my weapons/tools to level 7. I thought twinkling shells would have been the hard part, but really it’s been Supreme whetstones.

It looks like Supreme plates are decent, I’ve gotten a decent amount from grinding ladybirds, and I’ve loved that they also drop ladybug parts. I haven’t loved the ox beetle drops though, it’s felt like I get about 1/3 horns for my trouble. The drop rate with ladybirds are also pretty low, but at least one occasionally gets 2 in a drop, with good concentrations of ladybirds in specific spots, and usually quick to defeat.

Another problem with this system is armor vs weapon balance when it comes to upgrade scarcity. I would much rather easily have five level 9 weapons and one level 9 armor vs the opposite which we have now. With bug weaknesses and resistances being as they are, it’s best if one has a specific tool/weapon for the job. Contrasting that is armor can fit into many/most different situations just fine. 

One more change I would make is to the “natural” weapon flavors (mint mace, spicy coaltana, salt morning star, sour ax.) Each has their own flavor, so why do they take mighty globs instead of their candy elements? This just makes them much more grindy (2 stones per upgrade,) which takes away whetstones to upgrade the other weapons/tools.

I do most of the playing and grinding, and a friend occasionally joins me to play through the mission bits. Between us both, it’s taking far too long to get all the upgrade parts we need to get a full arsenal upgraded. 
 

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS- 
Perhaps the dev’s could change the upgrading system to be more like the glue masher with multiple types of bugs to fulfill the whetstone/plating requirement for each tier.

Or like OP’s idea about having each tier of ant part contributing to their respective tier of upgrade material.

Regardless, I think the rocks SHOULD respawn like all the other materials, even if it is 2-3 in game days.

In the meantime, at least please fix the drop rate of black ox horns to 100%, or near that % but with the chance to drop 2? Pretty please?

CONCLUSION-

Thank you to any other players or dev’s who took the time to read this long post! I am a humble enjoyer of this awesome game, the devs would know much more about balancing the game than I. This is my first ever discussion post about any game on a forum, which hopefully shows just how passionate I am about Grounded! Thank you devs for all your hard work!

TL;DR- Dev’s, Please fix the upgrade grind!!!

 

[dazza61]

 

Seen the changes from 0.12 to the present with 2000+ hrs logged..
Thought my heart had been ripped out when they removed respawnable quartzite but then they added the alternative recipes which actually is quite nice. Now I can't make my mind up whether respawnable rocks are better than killing crap loads of bugs. Both are equally as grindy; there are bottlenecks though....

Big HOWEVER though....SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!

WEAPONS
Lv 1-5::: Larva Spikes - crap tons especially if you kill Ladybird Larvae as they can drop up to FOUR spikes. No bottleneck at all and unlimited Level 5 weapons for all four players, even in multiplayer.
Lv 6-7::: Spider Fangs. Kinda small bottleneck but helped by iWolfs that can drop up to FOUR fangs. End game you can kill Wolfs easy and in the main its at least a 100% drop rate across both spiders...Single player fine but bottleneck worse for multiplayer.
Lv 8-9::: Ox Horns. Bottleneck insanity: Drop rates for horns are currently @ 20% (in my world, I got 18 or so horns for 92 kills.
Do the maths and it equates to ONE candy weapon needing 75 Ox kills from Lv 7 -9 OR 150 Ox kills to take a mighty weapon from Lv 7-9 (recipe is TWICE as expensive). Total madness...In my gf and I's world of 500 days - we have a Lv 9 Spicy Axe each and Lv 8's of Fresh Widow Dagger/Fresh Rusty Spear/Salt Morningstar - everything else is Lv 5 or below. The grind to level mighty bows and staves+shovels is just not possible. And thats not including Demon Club and Scythe. So many mighty weapons in the game. You'd need to log 100's, if not 1000's of hours...

ARMOUR
Because the recipes need less plating and are cheaper overall its much less of a grind.
Lv 1-5::: Grub Hide: Although there are plenty of grubs, they are spaced out over the map so this for me is the hardest bottleneck if you want all armours to Lv 9. But its doable even though grindy
Lv 6-7::: Ladybug parts: The fact that these parts drop from Ladybugs and Ladybirds is great. And also drop rates can be up as much as 400%. This is fine and no bottleneck at all even in multiplayer.
Lv 8-9::: Ladybird shells. No real bottleneck as the drop rates are 150-300% plus they are all over the Upper  East. The recipe is cheap too. Nice and balanced...

Do you guys reckon its an oversight regarding weapons? As it stands currently armours are far easier to upgrade. I wonder why they made it easy for armours but hard for weapons. Why not just make it hard for both or easier for both??

As you all have mentioned though, the upgrading system definitely needs an overhaul. I along with a few others have suggested dismantling of weapons so we could at least get the resources back for weapons we made in error (e.g. in early game we are still learning and are not sure what to make). This would allow fantastic RPG and although still limiting we could experiment with different exchangeable loadouts....

Thanks for reading if you got this far. I am really passionate about this game!!