Single Class Rogue Gambit Or Vanishing Strike?

[patronkus]

Trying out single class rogue for the first time, want some advice regarding their higher level abilities. Enduring Shadows seems good for the Swift Inspiration so you can ignore engagement and have your rogue on autopilot without getting chewed by disengagement attacks but the 2 big draws appear to be Gambit and Vanishing Strike. Gambit is a Full Attack that rewards 2 Guile per crit of the attack. This means with high enough crit chance you can have 0 net expenditure of guile per Gambit. Vanishing Strike turns you invisible allowing benefit from Assassin passive and Backstab. 

Both seem really good, unsure how any items and stuff interact with either ability but it seems like its a one or the other type thing because I don't think you'll have the actions or guile to use both frequently.

[Boeroer]

You can take both. The big thing about Vanishing Strike is that its Invisibility doesn't break on your hits like other invisibility does. But the duration is very low so you need all the INT and duration bonuses you can get - as well as keeping your action time and recovery time low to get the most out of it. So generally speaking dual wielding + two weapon style is in order.

At the same time Gambit is great if you have 10+ Guile because that means near certain crit conversion (you can get 2 bonus Guile from the Devil of Caroc Breastplate and some more from resting bonuses like from the Luminous Bathhouse). Usually you also need dual wielding of you want the full refund, so that fits with Vanishing Strikes (there are weapons that hit twice with only one strike so you can also get a double refund without using dual wielding, but more about that later). 

I personally think the nicest weapon setup in terms of mechanics but also style is Lover's Embrace + Pukestabber. The combo is extremely fast.

But there's also a weird interaction with Effort (Great Sword) which you can enchant with Hemorrhaging. It adds a secondary attack role that procs on crit and applies either hobbled or sicken. This also counts as weapon strike. If this crits it can trigger itself again (and so on). Because of this Gambit can get the full refund with this Two Hander, too. The hobble/sicken effect of that weapon also triggers on all attack rolls (not just the weapon attacks). Combined with Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak you can use Vanishing Strike + Effort to generate an endless loop of stuns + hobbled/sicken procs as long as you are invisible and get Gambit refunds. I only tested it briefly but it seems to be fun. 

Another two handers that can refund twice with only one strike is Saru Sichr (Morning Star). Its poison attack counts as a separate melee attack roll. 

Also the flail Sun&Moon will hit twice per strike. This increases the chance for refunds with Gambit, too. And you can use it with another weapon, so that's a great weapon pick as well. 

Anyway, for a more classic rogue approach I would pick the daggers. Lovers Embrace has the chance to put Frenzy on you (more speed) while Pukestabber makes your attacks faster as well. Stabby McStabface style...

You can then start combat with full Guile doing Gambit until you think you are getting overwhelmed or lost Guile because of grazes or misses - then use Vanishing Strikes to finish off one or two enemies and then see what's left. 

Another great weapon setup for Vanishing Strike and Gambit are Hand Mortar + Fire in the Hole by the way. It's slower, but you will apply Backstabs to all enemies in the AoE who are at -2m range, Gambit refund is almost guaranteed bc. of AoE crits - and the bonus dmg mechanic of Gambit goes haywire internally because of the many crit rolls that lead to an internal overflow of Guile (that is capped at max Guile afterwards so you don't end up with more than max). I had +200% dmg from Gambit alone easily against some mobs.

This weapon setup is expecially good as a SC Streetfighter obviously because of the modal of blunderbusses triggering "Heating Up".  This is also a setup that is very effective before getting to the higher Power levels 8 and 9/Gambit and Vanishing Strike. Stuff like Arterial Strike and Gouging Strike with Hand Mortar+ Fire in the Hole with enhanced Sneak Attack and superb reloading speed is always great.

But of course you can also just pick one of the abilities. As an Assassin I would prefer Vanishing Strike, as Streetfigther I would prefer Gambit. But if I were to choose I would pick both most of times I think. 

If you have a Cipher in the party then Ancestor's Memory (Brilliant Inspiration) should go to the SC Rogues, too at some point. That can help him to use bith Gambit and Vanishing Strike together more effectively. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

I'm considering going dual blunderbusses (not necessarily mortars, although they are sweet vs crowds) for Confounding Blind into Gambit. Foe's deflection will be going down so fast that getting 2 crits on your 8 attack rolls should be easy.

As Boeroer, you should probably pick both, but probably specialize into one. Max PER in any case, then it is a choice between max INT and DEX, granted you can go reasonably high for both.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Elric Galad