Same Game Version, but different Trap Exp?

[plasticlove24]

For some reason, the traps in Sandswept ruins seem to give different experience for different people, even in the same game version (v5.0.0.0040).

In this video, the first set of traps gives the player 280 exp for each trap. According to the Wiki, this makes sense: Trap level 9 gives 140 exp, and then +100% for party size 1.

When I disarm those traps with a solo character, I only get 64 exp for each one (screenshot below). Someone in the YouTube comments says that they got only 56 exp per trap. I'm trying to understand where these numbers come from, and why they are so different. Are there any other factors that I'm missing? When it comes to experience, if I've dismissed my companions at an Inn, they count as "not inside the party", right?

One small difference is that the guy in the video uses the Steam version, mine is from GOG. But the version number is exactly the same (you can see it at the start of his video).

I disabled all mods before entering the area for the first time.

Edited July 19, 2022 by plasticlove24

[Boeroer]

No idea if this explains the trap xp thing - but maybe this page explains why?

https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Experience_and_advancement#experience_modifiers 

See the point "experience modifiers" and "Quest experience" as well as "Mechanics experience" I guess.

For example the last passage of the Mechanics experience section (under "Deadfire" of course) sounds as if it might explain things. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Boeroer

[plasticlove24]

Thank you for looking into it  

Hm, I had checked the Wiki page, the party modifiers and the formulas under "Mechanics experience" seem to work correctly for the guy in the video (280 exp per trap), but they don't explain the numbers I'm getting Do you think the explanation under "Quest experience" applies? That exp is divided across the sub-goals of the quest. I'm not sure how that would apply to the traps…

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the last passage of the Mechanics experience section

If you're referring to this:

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The party only gains experience from the first 10 locks or traps of each difficulty level. After this, no further experience is gained from picking locks or disarming traps of that difficulty level.

It sounds like a trap should either give experience, or not at all. I think I've seen this in the corridor further into Sandswept ruins. If you disarm all those traps, the "later" ones don't give experience at all. Probably because of this rule. But in my case, the traps give experience, just small amounts.

By the way, I'm from Leipzig. Hello 

Edited July 20, 2022 by plasticlove24

[thelee]

is up/downscaling the issue? it might affect the effective trap level of the area as well.

[Boeroer]

4 hours ago, plasticlove24 said:

It sounds like a trap should either give experience, or not at all. I think I've seen this in the corridor further into Sandswept ruins. If you disarm all those traps, the "later" ones don't give experience at all. Probably because of this rule. But in my case, the traps give experience, just small amounts.

Yeah right... I thought it could be that this part of the wiki might be not correct (anymore? there were quite some patches - and some of them went pretty silently) and maybe nowadays traps could give you less and less XP the more you disarmed that kind of trap? I mean instead of full/nothing which is a bit "unrealistic"™.
Doesn't sound too stupid... but it's just a short in the dark.

4 hours ago, plasticlove24 said:

By the way, I'm from Leipzig. Hello 

Hi there!   We are about to do a trip to Leipzig (and Dresden, too) during the summer holidays.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Boeroer

[plasticlove24]

Thank you for the thoughts and ideas, Boeroer and thelee  

I started a new run, and played through Port Maje without hiring anyone, and without disarming any traps (I think). Then I went straight to Sandswept Ruins, and got the correct 280 exp per trap

As it turns out, dismissed companions at the Inn actually "consume" exp. To test this, I reloaded my save before entering the ruins, sailed back to Port Maje, hired Aloth and dismissed him at the Inn. Back at the ruins, I now only got 144 exp per trap. So at least for disarm exp, you get less if you have dismissed companions.

But here's the funny part. I reloaded, hired Aloth and this time, did NOT dismiss him. Went to the ruins together with Aloth, and now I got 226 exp per trap. More than when he is dismissed  

So to summarize:

    Solo (never hired any companion): 280 exp

    With Aloth in party: 226 exp

    With Aloth dismissed at the Inn: 144 exp

I know this is super specific (obsessive?), but I thought I'd share these results in case someone else is confused by this. Due to the number of traps in the ruins, the total exp difference is actually pretty large.

 

@Boeroer: That's nice, I hope you enjoy your trip. They are interesting cities (as is Berlin, of course). By the way, this is off-topic but I'm trying to play a Steel Garrote/Blood Mage with Offensive Parry from mostly your ideas in this forum. But I'm unsure about attributes; if it needs high INT, DEX, PER, RES and decent MIG (maybe 15?), then CON ends up very low. If you could share advice on this, or give an example of a good attribute spread, I would appreciate it   I'm pretty unexperienced with the game mechanics, by the way ^^

Edited July 21, 2022 by plasticlove24

[Boeroer]

23 hours ago, plasticlove24 said:

By the way, this is off-topic but I'm trying to play a Steel Garrote/Blood Mage with Offensive Parry from mostly your ideas in this forum. But I'm unsure about attributes; if it needs high INT, DEX, PER, RES and decent MIG (maybe 15?), then CON ends up very low. If you could share advice on this, or give an example of a good attribute spread, I would appreciate it   I'm pretty unexperienced with the game mechanics, by the way ^^

I usually go with only mediocre MIG, DEX and CON. Most important to me in this case are RES and then INT.

[thelee]

On 7/20/2022 at 3:54 PM, plasticlove24 said:

As it turns out, dismissed companions at the Inn actually "consume" exp. To test this, I reloaded my save before entering the ruins, sailed back to Port Maje, hired Aloth and dismissed him at the Inn. Back at the ruins, I now only got 144 exp per trap. So at least for disarm exp, you get less if you have dismissed companions.

hi, this is super duper interesting, but can you clarify what precisely you're doing with aloth here? i thought you could only decide to get aloth at the ruins and that was your one shot, is there like an alternate way to recruit aloth? are you talking about a difference between dismissing at the inn versus the world map?

[plasticlove24]

6 hours ago, thelee said:

hi, this is super duper interesting, but can you clarify what precisely you're doing with aloth here? i thought you could only decide to get aloth at the ruins and that was your one shot, is there like an alternate way to recruit aloth?

I spoke to Aloth and the others at the dig-site, but refused to take him along. He was then standing in Port Maje, near the stairs to governor Clario's house. You can talk to him there, and he will ask you again to take him along. If you don't speak to them at the dig-site at all, I don't know whether he will wait at the dig-site, or in Port Maje.

It seems similar for Serafen: I refused him, and then he was standing in the Fort Deadlight courtyard, next to the entrance to the dungeons. Not sure about Edér.

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are you talking about a difference between dismissing at the inn versus the world map?

Hm, I would be surprised if there was a difference between party management on the world map, vs. dismissing at the inn. If I remember correctly, I dismissed Aloth at the Port Maje Inn.

Edited July 22, 2022 by plasticlove24

[Boeroer]

Yes, you can do that with most (all?) of the companions. If you don't take them the first time they will wait in a fitting spot for you to pick up later (see Pallegina at VTC headquarters etc.).

Very nice testing that shines some new light on the XP distribution!

[thelee]

10 hours ago, plasticlove24 said:

I spoke to Aloth and the others at the dig-site, but refused to take him along. He was then standing in Port Maje, near the stairs to governor Clario's house. You can talk to him there, and he will ask you again to take him along. If you don't speak to them at the dig-site at all, I don't know whether he will wait at the dig-site, or in Port Maje.

It seems similar for Serafen: I refused him, and then he was standing in the Fort Deadlight courtyard, next to the entrance to the dungeons. Not sure about Edér.

Hm, I would be surprised if there was a difference between party management on the world map, vs. dismissing at the inn. If I remember correctly, I dismissed Aloth at the Port Maje Inn.

thanks for the clarification.

 

this is a real weird mechanic you've uncovered here! does... quest experience also degrade from having companions in storage? or is it just some oversight with trap exp you think?

[plasticlove24]

58 minutes ago, thelee said:

does... quest experience also degrade from having companions in storage?

Good question…to be honest I don't know

I tested one other thing: How much exp does each party member get? By looking at the actual character sheet exp, not just the console. For the test, I always disarmed the same trap.

• As a solo char: Player char gains 280 exp (as expected).
• With Aloth in party: Player char gains 126 exp. Aloth gains 126 exp. Total 252 exp. I have no idea why this is different from last time.
• With Aloth dismissed: Player char gains 144 exp. Aloth gains 129 exp. Total 273 exp.

Unfortunately, the numbers are inconsistent and don't "divide" easily. So I still don't know exactly where they come from. I'm not sure whether this is an oversight, or by design. It may be for "carrying" dismissed companions along, so they are not too far behind your level, if you pick them up later.

But one thing seems certain: Avoid hiring companions just to get their gear. Even if you dismiss them immediately, you'll get lower exp for the rest of the run.

Edited July 22, 2022 by plasticlove24

[thelee]

heck, it seems like even for a non-solo run (since i barely touch the companions i've decided to not use for a run), you're better off rejecting extraneous companions. there's a lot of traps/locks around so it could mean getting to a critical level-up sooner, which really matters in early game difficulty

Edited July 22, 2022 by thelee

[plasticlove24]

You're right it doesn't matter whether it's solo or not.