Melee Cipher PotD advice?

[Fidero]

really, only stat spread questions.

The problem in big battles is always the same. Either I blast through each encounter, or I lose the moment my Cipher gets targeted.

But I like the theme of a melee Cipher a bit more than ranged. Which is ironic because I settled on Wood Elf for flavor

My Stats look like the following rn - respecced so often already:

M 16 C 8 D 12 P 18 I 16 R 8

16 might gets me massive focus boost it seems when using Firebrand and Perception seems far more important than Dex for a Cipher...

Currently wearing Edér's armor for the added defense, simply because of having an 'Oh-****'-button

 

[Boeroer]

PER is more impactful at the start of the game because you have no means (or let's say only few means) to raise your accuracy otherwise and at the same time lower enemies' defenses - but DEX is the only way to speed up attack and casting animations. All other speed bonuses only shorten the recovery time or reloading time. DEX lowers recovery/reloading time as well as animation time and is always good to have (it has no diminishing returns like PER can have: once the accuracy/defense ratio reaches a certain value - via debuffs and buffs). 

Certain enemies have preferred targets. For example Barbarians love to target low deflection, Rogues like low DR and endurance (and also casters) and so on. Generally speaking: if you have better defenses and DR you will not only go down less easily because of those increased stats themselves (receiving less damage fron attacks) - but also because enemies will not target you that much but focus on more squishy companions. A heavy armor can already make quite the difference in "felt sturdyness" at the beginning of the game. 

You will be slower, sure, but knocked out characters are even slower, so...

All defenses have increasing returns by the way. So every additional point of deflection for example has more impact than the one before. This means that if you deflection is already okay (for example because you are wearing a shield and/or use stuff like Borrowed Instinct) it's not the worst idea to also get high Resolve. If your deflection is bad anyway you can safely dump Resolved because it wouldn't make a lot of difference anyway (but watch out: resolve also influences interrupts/Concentration and that can be really annoying if you get attacked a lot).

Melee dps output is usually higher than ranged, but you'll have the problems you mentioned. You need to compensate for the fact that you will get hit more often. 

I personally just go with a heavy armor at the start and gradually reduce it with levels I gain. At some point you CC and debuffing capabilities will be enough to prevent too many attacks against you.  

Also stuff like mind control (charm, dominate) can lead to a lot less attacks on you because mind controlled enemies often present themselves as way softer targets than yourself AND you took away a potential attacker at the same time. 

Generally speaking the squishyness gets a lot better after the early game. That's true for all classes that feel a bit soft at the beginning. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Boeroer

[Fidero]

thanks for the thorough info

as wtih resolve and defenses in general, would a more balanced spread be better here?

like M 12 C8 D14 P 14 I 16 R 14 ?

or more extreme (because of low base deflection anyawy) M 15 C14 D16 P 14 I 16 R 3 ?

Would still get me lots of dialogue which is nice, only sacrificing either might checks or res checks...

[Fidero]

Also, if the first spread is deamed better, would you say I should keep 2handed weapons or go for sword and boar?

[Boeroer]

Sword an Boar is only for Rangers.

You can drop RES to 3 if you're not the one who's engaging first but play your cipher more like a flanker. Or if you have a Priest who can cast Holy Meditation.

And if you're dropping to 3 RES you might as well go with a no-shield setup. 

I personally like dual wielding more with a cipher because your weapon recovery will be much faster and that leads to better responsiveness - because as a cipher you are always alternating between attacking and casting and it's beneficial to not have such long weapon recovery times. The dps between dual wielding and two hander is comparable so the higher responsiveness due to shorter recovery is nice. 

Also later you can gain 0 weapon recovery time with Time Parasite while still wearing fat armor and using Vulnerable Attack (because dual wielding + several item and ability speed bonuses + Time Parasite leads to such a big overhead of recovery bonus that you can fit in fat armor + Vulnerable Attack without adding recovery). 0 weapon recovery time as a weapon/caster hybrid is a very nice thing. 

Bit if you like Firebrand too much that's also okay. What it lacks in speed it makes up with high numbers per hit. It's one of the best mid-game weapons for a melee cipher for sure and only falls behind a bit after you gain access to Durgan Steel. 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Boeroer

[Fidero]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Sword an Boar is only for Rangers.

 

d
 

Dual wield isn't the worst thing xD
what weapon (type) would you recommend for that? Sabres for the higher base damage? Sabre of the Seas is still pretty much the est weapon I got I think xD Or Stilettos or maces for the DR bypass?

[Fidero]

Aaaaand another followup: including DLC, what's the highest stat dialogue check? Because the wiki doesn't feature DLC in the lists...

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, Fidero said:

d

'twas just a joke, because "boar". Ofcourse a Cipher can go sword & board. It's totally viable - what dmaage potential you lose you'll make up with staying power. It depends a bit on the party what is better. For example if you also have a Chanter (who have powerful but somewhat slow mechanics) it's not bad to go more defensive.

2 hours ago, Fidero said:

what weapon (type) would you recommend for that? Sabres for the higher base damage? Sabre of the Seas is still pretty much the est weapon I got I think xD Or Stilettos or maces for the DR bypass?

Sabres are nice. The best one is (imo) Bittercut because it has two damage types and also because it gets a 20% dmg bonus from Spirit of Decay because it deals corrode damage (and slash dmg as secondary dmg type). Also Sabres of the Sea + Resolution (also obtainable pretty early) is a good combo.

Just note that some enemies have really high slash DR - or are even immune. So make sure you have some backup weapons in the second weapon set that deal non-slash damage (like stilettos or clubs - which shares the same weapon focus as sabres).

Hammers are also one of my preferred weapon choices because there's good unique ones that don't kone late and because they deal pierce/crush dmg (choosing the more effective dmg type automatically like all dual dmg type weapons).

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Fidero said:

Aaaaand another followup: including DLC, what's the highest stat dialogue check? Because the wiki doesn't feature DLC in the lists...

I don't remember, sorry. I never payed too much attention to those dialogue-unlocking things in the first place (since you don't gain any mechanical advantages besides maybe being able to avoid combat from time to time - so after the first playthrough right after release I didn't bother much) - and then the last time I played PoE1 was years ago.  

[Fidero]

Hammers would be cool. Back to my Cleric/Sorcerer in NWN...