Shizuka2
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Posts posted by Shizuka2
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You have the conversation on the Ebon Hawk after Kreia teaches your
character to "hear" and you "hear" Atton playing Pazaak in his head.
You mean on Nar Shaddaa when she
had me listen to the planet
? I'm probably wrong on that one.
No, it's one of the Ebon Hawk events. Just talk to her about about her limited eyesight.
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Eh...?
I got the "Ebon Hawk Falling" sequence as part of my normal gameplay.
That, to me, explained how it got free of where it was wedged in when it crash landed on the planet.
Nor do I have a problem with the Goto/Remote stand off. Goto flat out says that they'll wait for word from the Exile before doing anything. Why would he do that if all he was concerned about was not blowing up the planet? Why not just instantly fry the Remote?
Goto's primary motivation in the Jedi/Sith conflict is to make certain that there is an order of Force users who will shepherd the Republic. He doesn't care if its the Jedi or the Sith who are acting in that role, so long as one of them is present. And he leaves it up to the Exile to figure out which side will have the job.
As such, his confrontation with the Remote makes perfect sense. The Remote is going to blow the planet up. Goto realizes that there is a possibility that the Exile will decide that the Sith should lead, and set up shop at the Academy on Malakor V. Obviously, this isn't going to work if the planet has been destroyed, so Goto arrives to make certain that the Remote doesn't blow the planet up unless the Exile specifically orders that it take place.
Perhaps the developers should have specifically included a scene where the Exile orders that the planet be destroyed, and Goto allows the Remote to finish the job that it started. It would certainly clear up confusion. I'm pretty certain that's exactly what takes place - only we don't see it personally.
Concur generally, and would only add that they do have such a scene, but it's easy to miss. In the confrontation with Kreia, the Exile can either mention the mass-shadow device and threaten to blow up the planet, or assert that Kreia will die, but the planet will remain. And so it comes to pass.
On HK-47 and Revan, I think you're right. But his first owner post-Revan was a Czerka exec, I think - he's the earliest you can backtrack before you know you're Revan.
As for what happened to your allies on Malachor V? Frankly, the generous explanation is that they wanted you to feel like you had just been in wreck - disoriented, alone, and troubled. Certainly, Malachor V made me feel like I had been hit over the head. Violently. Less charitably, they hadn't finished. Actually, when I saw Mira, I thought "aha! That's why it's Exile only at the moment! Everyone is going to get their own capstone vignette on Malachor V!" Alas, no. Kreia, Bao-Dur, G0-T0, Mira, and Hanharr are all. Visas Marr and Mandalore I can perhaps forgive for Marr's meditation chamber on Nihilis' ship and Mandalore's bombing sequence, but everyone else deserved better. Atton? MIA. T3? MIA. HK-47? Ok, so his capstone was the HK factory, and was cut, so that (unforgivably) explains why he wouldn't have an event on Malachor V. Disciple/Handmaiden? MIA.
What it really looks like is that they were setting up a series of one on one confrontations, not necessarily in combat, on Malachor V - Exile v. Kreia, Mira v. Hanharr, G0-T0 v. Bao-Dur - but canceled the rest, perhaps because of the myriad possibilities of influence. What would it have been, I wonder? T3 v. HK-47? (I retain a sneaking suspicion that HK-47 had been out of commission for a loooong time, and that T3 did him in - that scene when HK tries to press his recovering memories is priceless - although the alternative thought that HK-50 took him down just before the beginning has its points). That would leave Atton, Visas Marr, Mandalore, and the Handmaiden/Disciple to pair up properly. Sooo.... Atton spars (verbally) with Visas Marr, and, uncomfortable with what she can *see* in him, chooses to vanish? Mandalore counsels the Handmaiden/Disciple that the road of loyalty to such a Jedi/Sith can be rockier than he or she might think setting out? Thoughts, anyone?
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What is the minimum requirment for the repair and computer skills?
Nope, you need the Exile to have the skills.
Minimum for the first upgrades is very low ~6. Minimum for the final upgrade is ~20.
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Plenty of backstory and plot as well as upgrades to his dexterity, constitution, and intelligence. You need the Exile to have fairly high computer use and repair checks to pull it all off, though.
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Questions that remain - the HK-50s. Sure, G0-T0 says he purchased the loyalty of several - but that's not all of them, and there's a factory out there.
Presumeably, this would have been a part of the "HK-50 factory" mission, but this particular mission was cut at the last second.
Ah.
Pity.
Actually, stronger language would be appropriate. Then again, it looks the level designers were overworked as it is. No wonder I could not get that sonic sensor to trigger a traceback to the factory.
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Half the problem with the plot holes is that the writers - deliberately, at least in some cases - left a lot to be read between the lines. The other half of the problem is that you really need to work to get the information. I think that, in the end, it is less a matter that the ideas were underdeveloped than that you do not need to read half of the plot to play through the game.
(No real point in spoiler warnings for this thread, right?)
G0-T0, for instance will not really talk to you unless you successfully examined the pazaak droid, the swoop droid, did the Bith scientist quest, talked to the droid in the hidden room in Vogga's droid warehouse, *and* had the discussion thread about why you cannot bring droids into the Jekk-Jekk Tarr...
Once you do, you find out that he is a Republic droid. And yes, his backstory fits with the betrayal theme that shows up everywhere else.
Basically, all the characters are like that, and if you have not explored at least a few of their dialogue threads in depth, trying to figure out the ending is like working a diagramless without all the clues.
To start with - here's what I *don't* know: Canderous, HK-47, and Hannharr definitely have more to say, but I have not gotten them to open up yet. The rest, well... I *think* I learned what there was to learn, but I may have missed a trick or two. Any notes on how to get them to open up more fully would be most appreciated.
Beginning at the beginning -
The Exile ended the Mandalore wars by using a mass-shadow device (some kind of gravity bomb; perhaps a precursor to the Imperial Interdictors?) on Malachor V. That is the initial sound, and almost everything in the game can be understood as an echo of that event. The intensity of the event also led the Exile to completely sever his or her connection with the force, something (to everyone's knowledge then, at least) never before done. The Exile must seem undead to Force users, and if the Jedi are right about the Force being the flow of life, perhaps the Exile is. These two things - the role of the Exile in bringing about just about everything in the KOTOR II present day, and his or her unique freedom from the Force, are what interests Kreia. Remember Kreia's point about planetary manipulation on Nar Shadaa? The Exile is her choice of critical point.
Darth Nihilis? Pretty clearly learned his life-eating technique from the Exile (observation, not instruction); his choice of ship also indicates that he was at Malachor V. In the years since, he has refined the technique until he is more hunger than man - the darkness in which all life dies, if I do not misremember Visas Marr. He is extraordinarily dangerous to everyone... except the Exile. After the Exile injures him, he dispenses with playing around and tries to devour the soul, or life force, or just plain Force of his opponent. And it does not work, because the Exile is outside the Force, only accessing it indirectly through Kreia and company. This leaves Nihilis just starving himself to death faster - no wonder he goes down quickly. It is strongly implied that he might have had problems even if he had not faced the Exile at Telos - the discussion with Visas Marr implies that Kreia manipulated Nihilis into going there although there was no Jedi Academy, and that therefore Nihilis would go hungry. Presumably, this means that he gets hungrier when he acts than if he waits, and fighting a Jedi duel must involve a fair amount of exercise. He had the (twisted) Force equivalent of blood-sugar crash.
I must disagree that his sole or greatest significance is that he can defeat Kreia, true though it is and important as that is in understanding Kreia's plotting. He is also there to show the Exile what the Exile might become. He is yet another echo of the 'wound in the Force'.
Darth Sion? Kreia's apprentice who never got over her. Earlier comments about this in the thread about him marking her but not killing her were very well taken - I will edit in appropriate credit when the search function works again for me. [edit - Maria Caliban, post 55]
I see several complaints about G0-T0 and Bao-Dur's droid, both the Ebon Hawk cutscene and at the end. Others have addressed this before, but it keeps coming up, so: G0-T0 does not destroy the droid, he incapacitates it. There's a shower of sparks and it drops to the ground - it does NOT explode. G0-T0 does this to reprogram the droid, with the results seen later. Again as earlier posted [same note about credit where due when I can search| edit Junior, post 62] G0-T0 is perfectly willing to blow up the planet if the Exile so orders, believing that the Exile in making that decision either way will establish a stable religion for this section of the galaxy. His interest is not blowing it up too soon if at all, because Bao-Dur wants it blown up regardless in order to expiate his guilt in creating the mass-shadow device.
What comes next? There are so many hints about an empire of True Sith out there that this seems the obvious course.
What came before? I wish I knew better; DarthPanda's reconstruction of how HK-47, T3, Kreia, HK-50, and the Exile ended up on the Ebon Hawk sounds good to me. I will go one step further and say that Kreia knows more about that empire - or whatever it is that Revan went after - than she let on. I suspect that she saw Revan there, or at least picked up the Ebon Hawk there, and returned seeking to destroy the force so that she (and everyone else, not that she cared) could find her own destiny.
Questions that remain - the HK-50s. Sure, G0-T0 says he purchased the loyalty of several - but not *all* of them, and there's a factory out there. Who's running it? It's not G0-T0 - he discovered what they were up to, and then exploited the information, but he didn't program the 'wanton slaughter' into them. Also, G0-T0 implies that HK-50 core programming involved getting the exile, contracts aside. Obvious candidates are Czerka (a Czerka executive built HK-47, as I recall) or HK-47's last(?) master Revan, or maybe even someone higher than G0-T0 in the Exchange. I do hope that HK-47's dialogue settles some of these things for me, some of his early comments about the use of the sonic sensor imply that it can be done.
One thing that I think we have mostly missed is the power of negative influence. The designers repeatedly stated that both high and low influence have their uses, and given that influence and alignment correlate positively, my bet is that you can train people to be Jedi just as well with low influence. They may hate you, but that just means that you have a party member with access to the other side's Force powers on the cheap. Possibly, they actually betray you - I do not know of anyone who has spent a full game angering their party as much as possible, or even specific individuals within the party, Kreia aside.
Side-notes: the Sith ritual is pretty clearly about controlling the beasts to attack the Queen. The comments made by the final opponents in Freedon's tomb are about how they just need to keep it going, and how it is too late to stop them fit perfectly with the giant beast assaulting the forcefield, and then turning on everyone.
The constant stream of Sith Lords/Marauders/Assassins at the end, although irritating as gameplay, makes plot sense. It isn't that somehow Kreia or Sion gathered more Force-sensitives than the galaxy had seen in millenia in one place, and trained them to mastery - they are just reflections. They are ordinary, perhaps slightly Force-sensitive people who learned the art of feeding off the Force as Kreia explained early on. They were weak then because the Exile was weak then; by Malachor V the Exile is a major player, and therefore so are they. If you assume that they tap into their target's Force channel - and you are drawing on the Force, even if indirectly - while Nihilis draws on his target's life through its inevitable connection to the force (absent in the case of the Exile), then their ability to do so makes sense despite Nihilis' incapacity. That may be stretching things, though.
Why do the Sith matter to anyone but the hunted Jedi? What do informed people think the Sith will do when they decide they have caught the last Jedi? Right, come out and start in on the less Force-Sensitive population.
Is the Malachor academy ancient? I had rather gotten the impression that it was new - founded by Revan for his conversion purposes, and then appropriated by Treia and co.
The Mira/Hanharr confrontation - maybe Kreia's twisted little gift to your apprentice, in hopes of making her stronger? Something she saw in the force? A way to set up Mira for her own spin-off?
Things I would really like to know - low influence results for all, HK-47 full influence, Mandalore full influence, Hanharr full influence, if anyone had a payoff for convincing Viklu's subordinate to help blow up Nihilis' ship, if anyone could cleanse the areas of dark energy at Freedon Nadd's tomb.
Stinger - Who else _loved_ Kreia's response to a Light Side attempt to redeem her at the end? I found that a perfect capstone to a great (although, as she admits) not very charismatic character.
Repairing HK-47
in Star Wars: General Discussion
Posted
You can finish him after your first planet if you go to Nar Shadaa. Just search any destroyed HK-50s and buy whatever a droid shop has to offer, and you'll be fine.