almondblight

Turn-based or twitchy? What is this, a fight between gramps and a 12 year old Halo player? This is a RTwP game. That means it should be RTwP. I think they could probably find some ways to incorporate the stamina mechanic into it too. And possibly cool downs for special moves.

Zed's right though. Western games have been lagging behind Japanese games in this regard. Remember in Fallout 2 when the gangsters wife would tell you secrets if she was satisfied with your sex? The thing is, you don't have any control over that, it's just a simple skill check. This way would be much more interactive, and open up new and interesting forms of gameplay. Different races and desires would create more challenge. It'd work out quite well with romances, they'd go hand and hand. If you can't satisfy your girl she'll leave you, or you'll have to find the gifts she likes in order to make up for bad sex, etc.

So what - they should have bosses and enemies repopulate Diablo II style so that people who want to keep whacking on them for XP can play this game like a hack and slash? Some focus on this game is a good thing. You'll still get your chance to kill things and level - they've said that that there won't just be quest objectives, but in places like the 14 level dungeon the objective might be reaching certain areas. But they're not going to give you extra XP if you reach those objectives through combat rather than through stealth or other ways. Combat won't be rewarded any less than the other methods - it only won't be rewarded more than the other methods. That's the kind of game they're trying to make. To allow this game to be played as a turn-based hack and slash cyberpunk steam punk fantasy FPS to appease every player is only going to make this game a mess. Focus is good.

What I'm trying to point out is that you're talking about how important the XP is to people, that the reward is critical, that it's how human psychology works. And I agree. But if this thing is so important to people, do we think that it suddenly becomes unimportant to them when they're wondering whether they should go back and kill the guards after sneaking into a castle for the extra XP. If it's so important to players, if it's an inherent part of human psychology, then it's going to affect how people play. Now I agree with you that if the game is about killing monsters, then it makes sense to get XP from killing. It makes sense in Diablo. It makes sense in ADOM. But the developers here have said they want to make a story focused RPG with strong noncombat abilities. That doesn't mean that combat isn't important - it's very important. But it's not a game where the player is encouraged to slaughter everything they see, like those games are. They can still do that - but it's not elevated above other options.

Hmm...

Right. Which is why people favor removing xp from killing monsters - to stop encouraging such a thing. Games encourage you to gain XP. In fact, reason people like you are upset is because the game won't give you xp for this. To then say that only matters for munchkin players - are you lumping yourself into this category? Now, just because the game encourages you to do something doesn't mean you have to. I don't farm herbs in ADOM because I find it tedious, even though the game encourages it. But just because you don't have to do it doesn't make it good design. I don't need XP as a reward for killing monsters. You're saying you do. There are plenty of games where you can grind as much as you want. Not every RPG has to allow unlimited grinding to be good. In fact, I'd say that in a story focused game like this, they're better off removing grinding.

I think they're talking about people doing it not because they want to, but because they feel they should get the XP. As it is now, games often encourage you to do these things, like going back to kill monsters you've sneaked past for XP, or killing someone after you've solved the situation diplomatically. We're not talking about discouraging you from doing these things - if you want to, fine. We're talking about keeping the game from actively encouraging you to do this, even if you wouldn't on your own - that's the degenerative behavior that's being talked about.

Deus Ex had experience given for quests and exploration. This made the game interesting, and kept the player from killing all of the enemies just for the XP. Of course, you could kill everyone if you wanted. But you could also avoid combat, and the rewards weren't any different. I don't think the game would have been better if some "+150xp!" sign shot up every time you shot someone.