[Pallegina is standing in the Ocean. Why is this?]

Just came here to say I had the same thing happen to me (for the record).  I don't know of a fix myself. :/  I suspect this is the game handling issues with how the characters reacted to choices in past.

 

E.g. My choices were to fake-join the RDC and then back out, so that I could join the huana, and Pallegina and Maia never commented on it.  Now they both have issues and leave (Pallegina with a letter, Maia with a convo).

[Pallegina Left My Party and Is In the Middle of the Sea]

Thank you!! I'm glad I'm not a weird one-off case, at least.   And thank you for the link!

[Beast of Winter impressions]

Just a side note:  Thank you for being such an active and responsive member of the forums here, Alex!  It's really cool to hear your perspective on lore, writing, etc. as someone that's more involved in the process, and you're pretty open to questions and cool about various opinions.

 

 

 

The problem is though, that the information that is given in the lorebook of PoE I & 2, sets the event of prior to Saint's war, and the war itself, as a fanatical holy war campaign. Plus, wasn't it the dawnstars that visited Waidwen first? And not Eothas himself. According to BoW, it isn't so. Plus, Eothas says that Woedica's past in PoE II is made up. It's a bit messy tbh.

The lore books are written from an in-universe perspective and that of an outsider to boot. Beast of Winter gives us a chance to converse with the parties involved first hand and get a look at how it actually happened thanks to the Watcher gifts. It's not necessarily contradicting, you just have to realize that the stories told about events and the events themselves are not necessarily the same.

I mean, in a broader sense, the Pillars story is about identities and the factors that shape them. Engwithans imposed a new order, a new identity through their religion. This order lasted for a time, upheld by the Leaden Key and the structures of power that dominated them, but as humanity develops and wants to forge a new one, the gods struggle to reconcile humanity slowly learning to exist without them and their own centuries-old identity as divine beings essential to the world.

So Eothas wants to force the gods and mortals to reconsider and reevaluate their role in the grand scheme of things. He wants to give them the tools to build a new identity, but realizes that he is still clinging to the old notions of godhood and relationship with humanity, so he allows himself to be (apparently) killed, creating a new myth.

I'm kind of rambling here, I need to refine this thought.

 

 

Those are really great points.  A large part of what we know comes from subjective sources and perspectives, including the lore books in the universe (that's part of why I like the books in the game), and a lot of themes stem from the stories people and cultures are told or tell.

[Pallegina Left My Party and Is In the Middle of the Sea]

I haven't played the game for months, but I came back to play the two latest DLC's.  After resting while playing Seeker, Slayer, Survivor content, Pallegina gave me her farewell letter, left the party, and appeared in the middle of the sea on the global map.

 

Picture of her:

https://imgur.com/a/oXVX7rf

 

Is there a way to avoid or fix this??  I'm hoping other players might know more about this than me.

 

---

 

For some background/context: I beat the game a few months ago.  I had offered an alliance to the Royal Deadfire Company, then backed out when they said their plans to assassinate the Onekaza - which causes a 'shootout' which kills a lot of people and deals a blow to the faction.  I allied with the Huana after.

 

Pallegina and Maia didn't have issues (or comments) on this at the time, except that Pallegina understood why I'd side with the Huana. 

 

 

 

 

[Pillars of Eternity based MMO game]

I'm inherently wary of things like multiplayer and MMOs because it's a strong sign of a developer going in a generic, dumbed down ("streamlined"), mainstream direction. Which usually is a sign that they're going to dump attempts at quality or trying new things.

 

So I'd be against it on those terms. If it didn't affect them or the games, I probably wouldn't play it, but I wouldn't mind that it exists or anything.

[Eothas is Thaos (not literally, duh)]

The only thing I was thinking through-out this entire story line is before the Engwithans and the gods there must of been a way people were born with souls in order for the ancients to become gods. They never once touched on this and the story fell to pieces for me the more Eothas talked about fixing the problem but there may be consequences and mortals must find their way... and still never mentioned a single thing about how it worked prior to them all becoming gods. It's quite a major plot point that requires revelation.

There was an explanation, but it got cut in editing and they didn't realize it was an issue until after release. There are a couple posts from the devs on this.

 

Explanation itself:

The reincarnation cycle always existed, but the Engwithins modified/rigged it to work the way they wanted. One of the things the modified wheel does is feed the soul pieces kith shed to the gods.

 

But breaking the wheel doesn't fix the original process. As Alex Scokel explained, it is *similar* to installing a dam on a river and then breaking the dam. Breaking the dam doesn't fix the river.

 

So when Eothas breaks the wheel, he is

is forcing the gods and kith into the same predicament. Life will cease to exist and the gods will die if they don't fix the cycle.

 

Next part is a bit of speculation - I believe Eothas' intent was to make kith realize what the gods really are (not all powerful and immortal and flawless beings), give kith a choice about whether they want the gods at all, and give them a more equal relationship where the two might have to cooperate together to fix things.

[Curse: Berath's Wrath, a bit exaggerated maybe? (spoiler alert)]

I actually wish the blessings and curses were more like this one. One that *seriously* affects you. I get more why they avoided permanent intense blessings though.

[Eothas is Thaos (not literally, duh)]

I just realized this. Something interesting about Eothas acting similar to Thaos - and the other gods, and many main characters/playable characters - in his willingness to sacrifice other lives for what he thinks is the greater good, but for inverse reasons.

 

Thaos behaved that way to control kith and how they thought, and maintain the faith of the gods and what they were. Eothas behaved that way to give kith the chance to make a choice to be independent or equal or not, and to completely break what everyone thought about gods. Even his choice to die (the first time) served that.

 

Cool parallels! Both cases really bring up the question of, ethically, how much does method matter versus intent versus consequences.

 

I also think it's interesting how both react when you call them out on their choices.

[Started playing Divinity 2 and...]

Mmmyeah... Deadfire is a league above in a number of departments compared to DoS 2.

 

Wait, you think so?  I'm used to people saying it the other way around, but I haven't played DOS 1 or 2.

[The Couriers Calling, Maia dialgoue when shes not in party]

That sounds like a bug. I've never seen the game do that.

 

However, you can let it happen even if she's there. But I think you might have to kind of be a **** about it.

[Questionable quest design - Terms of Trade/Dim Prospects *spoilers*]

Stuff like the post above shows the seams of the game a little I think. I don't think it's laziness, more the result of trying to account for so many possible factors in a game they actively made more dynamic.

 

I don't know if I'd say shallow but I do get the frustration actually.

[Bad ending questions (spoilers)]

Thanks Taevyr for your input. I'm not saying that you are not right but unfortunately I fail to understand the sense of it. To be frank, the way you put it does not change the doubts I had but just rephrases the questions. So if your point were to be true, why is Eothas' outlook so impactful on the world of Eora? Can other gods infect it in the same way? In this case, given the nihilistic attitude of Rymgand, why doesn't he have the same effect on Eora already?

I assume it's because Rymrgand isn't the one in the statue breaking the wheel directly?

 

I haven't read that ending or what happens exactly, so I'm guesstimating.

[Official Characters and Romance Thread (Spoiler Version) Part the Third]

And with "Seeker, Slayer, Survivor" Tekehu's pride finally broke Aloth:

 

 

(Also, there is nothing wrong with necromancy. Better than constantly littering forums with short lived new topics. )

That is amazing hahaha. The game doesn't know how to handle it.

[What's after PoE2 ? And consoles release date?]

There is *definitely* set-up for the third game. There are a few constants in every ending that create a problem that kith are being forced to deal with, with no guarantee they can actually handle it, there are multiple points in the game that discuss and ask about how the cycle of souls work and what animancers are learning, and all of the aforementioned set up ties into one of the major themes/questions in both PoE I and II.

 

That said, Obsidian could probably end the series here if they wanted. Deadfire did a good job of making an ending that closed most of the threads and gave you an idea of what the future is, while still keeping it open enough that there is serious potential for a third game's story.

 

I'm hoping they make a solid (not stripped down) third game that follows up on all of this though. The stuff they brought up was a really cool follow up on the last game's ideas and offered some really cool possibilities for the next one.

[Why is it still not possible to turn off the narrator?]

Gifted mentioned this, but I thought there was already a thing that essentially slips narration? Like a space bar? Maybe that's the last game /just the BG style stuff?

 

 

You don't know how easy or hard it is to do. The devs do. That's why I would like a response from them.

I was actually going to post some sort of grumpy reply like:

Yeah, the narrator is a speaker like any other character, the game would need to run a test against every line of dialogue to... blah... blah...

and then I poked around the binary a bit. The game already does specifically test and handle narration differently. It really is just a single if/then and fancy button away from redirecting (almost) all calls for narration off to a null.

 

The caveat is that there are still something like 100-200 pieces of dialogue which include narration, but are owned by a different speaker. Any time you come across something like:

[sNARKY GOD]: "FI FI FO FUM, I SMELL A WATCHER... AND... VATNIR? SERIOUSLY. TAKE A BATH, DUDE."

You swear his lips remained motionless, but the weight of the reverberating sarcasm brings you to your knees.

that is all a single piece of text and single audio file owned by [GOD]. Splitting it apart would mean inserting a new dialogue node for just the narration and cutting the audio into two pieces. There's no easy coding fix to address those instances, and would require a moderate level of rework.

 

But as I mentioned before, there is a relatively quick thing you can try. Just dig through your install to find:

StreamingAssets/Audio/[platform]/Voices/English\(US\)/narrator

Renaming/deleting that single directory will cut out any audio where only the narrator speaks. That accounts for something over 80% of her total lines. The mod on Nexus took a more complicated approach to achieve the same effect, but the audio subsystem is fairly resilient, and doesn't appear to get too upset when it simply can't find a piece of VO.

Side note, but I always love the code /mod posts you do on this stuff. It's neat to read how it works.

[Seeker, Slayer, or Survivor - Achievements]

Opener Of The Way is interesting. I'm keen to see what there is to the story beyond the combat arena

I was actually less interested in this one because it sounded like 100% combat, but it'd be cool if there was some story too. That trophy description has some cool implications.

[How much of the game do the faction quests take up?]

I was actually going to say that faction quests are the large majority of this game - as a fan of said game. A big part of that is because so many elements of the game have *some* tie to one or more factions, though. E.g. I would count the Wahaki as faction related.

 

That said, there are a decent number of little, completely side things on the smaller islands you explore. And at least a few side quests (also small ish) with little to no relation.

 

I would just recommend that you save every time before you talk to a faction leader, because eventually they will ask you to do a quest that locks you out from everyone else, and you'll miss out on content at that point. The best way to get the most content, *I think*, is to remain *technically* faction less until the end game.

 

Edit : Also, avoid Ashen Maw until you've done most of the content.

[Waterlogged Journal - anyone figured it out?]

Woah! I saw a couple pieces of info but didn't put it all together. That's such a well done puzzle-piece type mystery. It's cool that they're actually in game too.

[My Character Playlist]

That's so cool! Funny enough, I actually used PoE music to get into a vibe that I could make a DnD character. One that I actually had to think a little about.

 

Thank you for sharing! :D

[To kill Harmke or not?]

I mean, it wouldn't be much of a sacrifice if you could get both of the things you want, but couldn't you console command his armor and just kill him?

[So, how do you keep Maia from...]

I got her to stay by going with the Huana, but it was sort of a loophole to be honest. Not sure if the game intended that.

 

Theoretically she should stay if you romance her and make her leave the military, but that doesn't seem like a great ending for her. I don't know how you

you convince her to stay in this case.

[Is being a Pale Elf necessary for BoW or has Ydwin got your back?]

 

They liked that I was big.

To quote Plato: "ayyyy lmao".

 

This DLC feels like it was made for Ydwin fans.

I think she was given some additional attention in part due to the fan response, but she probably was always going to have a few lines due to the subject.

[So...No New Companions]

Also, I suspect the depth they added was largely in their responsiveness. Playing Pillars of Eternity again, I was struck by: 1) How quiet the companions are in conversations and 2) the fact that people rarely if ever respond to your companions when said companions react. *And* you could never respond directly to what the companions said.

 

Those are all giant improvements in Deadfire and it's so natural and ingrained that I didn't properly appreciate it until I played the first game again.

[So...No New Companions]

I'm not surprised by that. And I'm actually fine with it. If they were doing two big expansions I might expect one or two additions, but with how quickly they're cranking out this DLC there's no way I'd expect it in those. The time they'd have to implement them is insane.

 

I just want more dialogue hub conversations or more in depth conversations with the companions we have. *Maybe* sidekicks too if that's at all doable. I think the companions are all awesome characters and I love how much work they did to make them more dynamic and responsive, but I really miss being able to have more branching, developed conversations.

 

E.g. Talking to Serafen more about factions or pirating or slavery could be really interesting. Talking to Xoti about faith or her differences with other Eothasians or her culture or the nature of Gods or Eothas (toward end of game) would be great too. That was the

the most interesting part of the character to me and has a lot of potential.

 

And I've said this before but, as much as I love the voice acting, all the added stuff could be entirely silent and I wouldn't care. The whole game could

be silent and I wouldn't mind if it meant the writers could do what they want.

[Backer rewards rip off]

 

I feel bad for the backers that didn't get what they were hoping for or expected. Getting burnt on this kind of stuff really sucks. :/

 

But I don't get why people treat any of this like a guaranteed product. Especially when so many things can change during production. Things like Kickstarter and Patreon are to help fund something getting made in the first place, not to purchase some item or items. When one donates/pledges money to these things, you should know going in that that money is gone (and that you're okay with that) and that the project may or may not turn out how you want.

 

To be fair, I think the wording on a lot of Kickstarters word it like a promise or a guarantee, but I don't think it's realistic expectations.

But the fact that they ARE worded that way means that they should be delivered as stated. Anything else could easily be considered fraudulent. Besides, how many people do you think would donate hundreds of dollars so that they MIGHT get something?

I would donate that kind of cash, not to maybe get something, but to support a group or person I like and their projects or to support a potentially cool project on its own.

 

Though yeah, I get that feeling /what you're saying. I think Kickstarters feel a pressure to promise a ton to gather support and tend to promise more than they *know* they can deliver, though I'm sure it's hard to really predict that. I still stand by the point that people don't treat these projects like they should, but at the same time the Kickstarters maybe shouldn't so firmly promise things that aren't tangible yet /so far away.