Providence

Then no XP for you... Which is another pro for goal based XP. No just doing half the stuff and tear on the reward, you need to get through the end. That's terrible and arbitrary. You suddenly become "enlightened" when you reach the last dungeon wall.. but before that - nada.

What if you stop half through the dungeon and go somewhere else? Should you get no xp or would you just hand out xp for every step the player takes in the dungeon?

Can't get more NO than that. Even you can't ignore that... :/ That option was chosen by 8% of voters.

Let me explain to you why in-combat automatic regeneration of hit-points, called stamina in PE, is a bad thing (regeneration only outside combat is bad too, but this is much worse): - it is susceptible to cheesy tactics like running from your opponents (even in circles) to regenerate all your precious hit-points back - even though health WON'T regenerate, stamina will, and if stamina is important at all.. it WILL matter if it's full or if it isn't (go back to point 1.) - will opponents have this dual stamina/health bar as well, with stamina regenerating automatically (it would only make sense they do have it as well, if that's the case with the player character and party members) - it is indeed much harder to balance encounters when you have to take into account a constant regeneration of hitpoints

Indeed. Will this be a sneaking/diplomacy simulator or a game that's advertised to have tactical combat as one of its main strengths? why no xp for killing has to mean no reward for combat? if you kill Drizzt in BG and get his super gear but no xp, will you feel like you gained nothing out of it, even if you have taken items that are as rare as they can be? the same goes for PE. you may not get xp, but you get loot for combat. and loot means items you may not be able to get in any other way or extra money to buy that nice armor that the pacifist cant afford I want XP as well because it represents, among other things, getting better at combat/getting more abilities/improving skills. Loot doesn't do that.

Then don't fight if that's not your cup of tea. Use other ways. But I don't want your hate to take out the enjoyment that other people get from being rewarded when they defeat an opponent - in the form of XP. I don't have to explain why XP is important, I hope. It's probable that I'd find useful loot only in a small portion of encounters and money was never an issue in any Obsidian/Troika/etc. game.

Indeed. Will this be a sneaking/diplomacy simulator or a game that's advertised to have tactical combat as one of its main strengths?

I think they're talking about people doing it not because they want to, but because they feel they should get the XP. As it is now, games often encourage you to do these things, like going back to kill monsters you've sneaked past for XP, or killing someone after you've solved the situation diplomatically. We're not talking about discouraging you from doing these things - if you want to, fine. We're talking about keeping the game from actively encouraging you to do this, even if you wouldn't on your own - that's the degenerative behavior that's being talked about. One word: scripting. It's not beyond their ability to prevent that from happening, if they don't want killing quest givers or whatever to give xp after the quest is done. Although, I believe xp is not the only incentive to kill them after the quest is finished, loot is too. Should they have all items removed from them after the quest is over, as well? From an XP and level progression balance perspective this is a nonissue. Kill XP is also a nonissue if there is a limited amount of enemies in the game. The real problem are respawns and random encounters on the world map. Both are usually endless and can really inflate xp, even if that wasn't the player's intention.

Indeed. I hope that's clear for everyone who's reading the results.

Yes, it is divisive because a lot of people like the feeling of getting rewarded after a kill/battle. Among other things with XP points, which is a crucial element of a character's progression. Other people would like to take that away.

I hope you realize that what's going to happen here is that you'll get your kill xp, but it will be ridiculously, meaninglessly low - just to provide Obsidian with a fig leaf to cover over the design philosophy they REALLY want to accomplish. Luckily, the OCD crowd doesn't care how little xp they get. They just want to see those numbers pop up. That would be an insult to intelligence and I hope Obsidian is above that. Kill XP should be meaningful, as should their supposedly tactical combat. OCD crowd? Really? Don't let me start with names for the ""objective""-only crowd, because I can be much more... creative.

Yes, of course my argument is an oversimplification but then again, so was yours. I agree that both mechanics can incentivize players, but which is more effective? That's not an issue. One shouldn't exclude the other because kill xp and "objective" xp can coexist. Talking specifically about Obsidian/Troika/etc. games, the problem never was kill xp, but endless random encounters (Fallout, Arcanum) and endless respawns (Fallout NV). Those encounters are grindable (EVEN if you're not doing it on purpose but just traveling/exploring) and can inflate xp. So instead of eliminating these unnecessary features, they want to remove kill xp. It's... completely illogical.

That system is certainly better than having stamina (aka hitpoints bag) regenerate on its own even during combat (+ many abilities that can replenish it), which is my main gripe with what Sawyer is proposing.

It only recovers when you are not involved in any special activity and takes 1 hr of game time. You probably still do not understand: Darklands stamina DOES NOT recover during combat. PE does. Skyrim does. DA2 does. SKyrim, DA2 use stamina for special attacks; so does PE. Your entire invocation of Darklands is confusing. Why do you keep thinking that this game has any similarity to PE compared to COD or Skyrim or DA2? I've bolded and enhanced parts of the sentence so that curryinahurry can hopefully start to understand the issue, one day. No matter how slow the automatic regeneration is (Sawyer said it will be rapid, which is the opposite of slow).. IF there is any regeneration of hit points during combat it completely changes combat, and not in a good way.

Yes (97 votes [33.45%]) Percentage of vote: 33.45% Yes, but only a small amount to favour other aspects of the game than combat (88 votes [30.34%]) Percentage of vote: 30.34% Yes, but only for big fights like boss battles (25 votes [8.62%]) Percentage of vote: 8.62% Yes, so long as the number of enemies in the game is fixed thereby fixing total combat experience (12 votes [4.14%]) Percentage of vote: 4.14% No (68 votes [23.45%]) Oh, look what I found. Something that is very actual right now. Results as of 16. 10. 2012. are presented above.

I agree bro, there's no better incentive to explore areas full of monsters that want to kill you than awarding no xp for killing them. On the contrary, since monsters are monsters are monsters, what is your incentive to explore any particular area if you can get the same amount of XP from grinding monsters in an area you've already explored? Objective-based XP incentivizes you to go to new places and do new things. Yeah, agreeD because all monsters will be clones of each other and all areas will have the same clones so there won't be any incentive to go to different areas to experience different combat encounters. I thought you people from teh codex had better and at least a bit more sensible arguments... on occasion.

Jesus Christ Shrek, give your crusade a rest for a day, you are becoming worse then VotS, because in his case I am at least reasonably sure that he is trolling. I can't put my finger on it, but I smell a strong impairment in you. This is not the codex, little angry doll, stop the personal attacks.

Getting damaged = getting weaker at everything else doesn't sound appealing to me. but its how it works in real life, try to get shot in the stomach and then go about your day, going to school, or working, it all becomes much harder! Yeah, in real life you also don't regenerate the organs back after being shot in the stomach.

Getting damaged = getting weaker at everything else doesn't sound appealing to me.

LOOK! The advantage of "FOR" is shrinking! Oh noez!! People will start killing themselves if they end up receiving xp for kills!! Right! How could I miss that.. people voted most for games where NO combat xp was awarded (BG and Torment). Nice catch there. No. I'm not interested in a codex. I mean the forum man, RPG Codex, its a decent forum, where they discuss RPG, and hate people like me hahaha we should probably take this to PM if you want to keep going, or soon the mods will force us hahah Ah, the forum you mean. Heard about it from Gaider in some of his very angry Bio-forum diatribes when he would suddenly digress into how "those people are vile idiots" or something similar. Yeah, PM sounds fine.

No. I'm not interested in a codex.

The combat we are expecting for P:E is a hard combat, with tough enemies, and difficult tactical decisions. Its only natural that after the hard work of defeating your enemies, you get a reward, thats how it works in real life too, you work hard, you get money, you get women, you get friends. That has always been how an RPG is played, some people dont like to grind, I personally think it can be boring, but it should be rewarded, because its only natural that those who spend more time doing something, become better at it, than others who are just delivering bread to the old lady next door. Or men. The rest I agree with.

Thank you for totally ignoring my obvious question. If I happen to receive my Nobel prize, I'll donate it to a foundation that helps the blind. What question(S)? The super huge bolded ones? Look above and then judge who's blind.

And about thiZ. Naturally bro, I don't care about my charater advancing his skillz and attributes and combat and non combat abilitiez. All I care about is those giant clubs I got as LOOT from ogrez that I can use to create an amusement-park in the middle of BIB BIG CITY 2. Also, easter eggs.. can't tell you how much I play this game to laugh for 3 months when I see a tank hidden somehwere symbolizing the bond between Brian Fargo, Wasteland 2 and Obisidan. CAN'T WAIT. Dying to find it. Also, story.. throw xp out of the window completely. Who cares about character advancement and xp when we have a big story set in a gripping interactive novel. ALL AFTER ME: SAY NO TO COMBAT! !

Lucky for you that poll isn't biased at all and has a "I don't care" option. Oh wait.. And options 2 and 3 actually appear to be more goal based than the other 2 yes versions. Finally, the thing I STILL haven't seen answered by the against crew (if it was, SORRY!) Most of you appear to be advocating exploring for nothing isn't fun. I agree! But I think you are forgetting a couple of something... LOOT ?! STORY !? EASTER EGGS?! EVERYTHING OTHER THAN XP! Please explain, I am awaiting your answers If you can't explain yourself, I'm afraid you might be experiencing a number fetish. Yeah, not having an "I DON'T CARE, YOU USELESS POLL, HENCE MY VOTE IN THIS POLL I DON'T CARE ABOUT" option, invalidates the poll. Also, "NO" is obviously not enough and is tendentious because next to that option, if you look hard enough, it's written: "I'm a moron". Brilliant observation. Worth of a Nobel prize.