Xienzi
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Posts posted by Xienzi
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I hope that, unlike other IE games, books are actually considered to be valuable, because, no printing press, low literacy, knowledge is power.You know what would also be nice? A book bag for all those books you'll eventually be looting off shelves.
I went to the Dutch book museum in the Hague once, I was told that the cost for making a book was about equal to what would today buy you a villa.
A villa, eh? So did they have to be hand-written?
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You know what would also be nice? A book bag for all those books you'll eventually be looting off shelves.
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This thread is getting pretty stupid, I think.
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I honestly would be fine with just the slot based inventory and specific item bags system we've been using.. That's it. Nice and simple.
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The only gripe I have with the new system is how it would even work, story-wise. Would it function similarly to portable holes/bags of holding and just have it on you at all times? Gameplay and story segregation always bugs the hell out of me.
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You know what would be a fun idea? Faction and deity non-standard game overs.
Examples?
For example... Well. Considering the recent update, maybe if you see an old woman in rags on an road and you rob/kill her, you'll receive divine punishment from Woedica herself? Little things like pissing off someone really, really powerful. As for faction related non-standard game overs... remember when you could have The Nameless One permanently bound to one place?
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As a side note, are we going to see a character's soul react in some way when the character's actions are at odds with their alignment? P:E won't be using alignment though, hence the reputation/faction system.
If you're playing the equivalent of a lawful or good character, and you kill innocent people, shouldn't your soul react with a guilt warning, and eventually enforce some kind of penalty?
And if you're playing the equivalent of chaotic or evil, and you perform an uncharacteristically good act, shouldn't the same thing happen?
I would still hope one can achieve a character arc that transforms from light to dark or dark to light. You don't *have* to stay with one alignment or play style the entire time. Your choice of deity at character creation (if any) should determine your starting allegiance. But you could swear a new allegiance as the game progresses.
You know what would be a fun idea? Faction and deity non-standard game overs.
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There was no armor durability in IE and I'd rather keep it that way.
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I'm a bit split on this. On one hand, I can see why lugging around hundreds of thousands of goldpieces or whatever passes for currency would feel weird, or that there's no real way to properly spend it all without introducing goldsinks. But on the other hand, there's always that human bit of greed to finding yet another bit of wealth to add to my virtual collection. I suppose gaining favor with various factions could be used as currency, but again that's just shifting the problem over to a new definition.
Won't the stronghold end up becoming one gigantic gold sink?
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Great post generally JOG, as always, and I understand what you are saying. This question is what I want to address actually:
You want a Faction vs. Faction combat?
Yes!
There were talks about "Hey! Defending our Stronghold mini-game?". Now what would be best for that? What if we besiege another Faction's (F2) castle, with the help of another Faction (F1). What would be the best form of "Defense" and the best form of "Attack"?
Besieging seems like it'd just be another dungeon with the help of non-controllable allies. I actually wouldn't mind that, because then you'd actually have to mind your AoEs. Want to defend your stronghold? Just command your own forces and allies through dialog options. And maybe your pet ferret.
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There are many ways this concept could be done.
Each character should have specific goals and varios points of interests on maps.
So you get to town and as you walk around, characters might express their desire to split and do stuff. You can go do your own stuff, or tag along with one of them (if possible).
The other party memebrs go off on their own and there's a chance that they might trigger some event. They might get back to you later with a story. They might wait for you at a specific place. You mgith bump into them unplanned as they do errand in the town.
Ifthey run into (simulated) trouble, you might get a prompt to switch to them and fight.
They might get captured.
They might bump into an interesting lead they decide to follow (so when they don't show up you get curios and have to find them)
tons of possibilities.
This. I would much rather your errand/assignment choices have some bearing on the events/possibilities in the main game than simply produce stuff. (I'm not saying that anyone said "THEY SHOULD JUST GIVE YOU STUFF AFTER A CERTAIN DURATION, LIKE IN ASSASSIN'S CREED!" or anything.)
It's just how it translates in the gameplay (player-software interaction). Sure, in the lore, you chose "Go talk to people in the tavern," and for several hours your companion went and spoke to lots of people, in a raucous room with a lot of interesting folks, and they talked, and there was a brawl, and there was some outcome to the brawl, and it turns out your person gained 30 XP and was rewarded by the barkeep with 50 gold pieces. But, as far as the player's game is concerned, you picked someone from the list of people you weren't currently using in your party anyway to go be unavailable for a while (during a time when you don't need them anyway) and come back with stuff, and there just happens to be a nice little write-up of HOW they acquired said stuff. But, the only way in which the player was effected is that, A) You couldn't put them into your party for a duration because they were "busy," and B) you gained stuff.
Don't get me wrong... I love lore. But I'd rather stick to "this person brought word of some matter that needs addressing that you didn't know about before" and "this person discovered POTENTIAL stuff that you can now choose to actively go and find" for the effects of these little assignments and happenings with your peoples throughout cities and towns in downtime.
Ah, if you do it that way then it could work. The whole picking from a list of pre-written mini-adventures thing, I mean. Then included among them are unique ones for hidden villages/towns and dungeons found during scouting?
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There are many ways this concept could be done.
Each character should have specific goals and various points of interests on maps.
So you get to town and as you walk around, characters might express their desire to split and do stuff. You can go do your own stuff, or tag along with one of them (if possible).
The other party members go off on their own and there's a chance that they might trigger some event. They might get back to you later with a story. They might wait for you at a specific place. You might bump into them unplanned as they do errand in the town.
If they run into (simulated) trouble, you might get a prompt to switch to them and fight.
They might get captured.
They might bump into an interesting lead they decide to follow (so when they don't show up you get curios and have to find them)
tons of possibilities.
Shouldn't the other party members be present for all major NPC interactions? So would "splitting up" just end when you're going to proceed with a quest or talk to major NPCs? Perhaps a button to send out a bird as a messenger to round everyone up or have it just happen? The unease that I'm getting with this whole idea, I think, comes from how it's actually going to operate smoothly and not be totally out of the way.
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Don't pollute my cRPG with a MOBA minigame please.
Minigames in cRPGs should be:
1. Drinking
2. Cards (while drinking)
3. Dice (and a few drinks)
4. and maybe.....maybe arm wrestling (with a bit of ale)
Drinking for wolf medallions again?
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Maybe it's just me, but it seems like actual XP is best reserved for things you actively control. Otherwise you end up having to balance the level/difficulty of all the game content against yet another factor: "How many out-of-party characters did this person send on errands that awarded XP, and what if a player sends them all on money-only errands or something else?"Speaking of Japanese games, I took the idea of sending out allies to gather materials from Wild Arms XF. Anyway, probably sending those "campfire" allies out for "tasks" would reward them with quest exp? That's a fair way of doing it.
*Shrug*... it just feels like passive XP gain. "You there! Focus your efforts, for the rest of the day, on acquiring XP!"
"Okay, I'm back, and I picked up a 6-pack of XP on the way home, just like you asked, ^_^"
I would not, however, be against any other manner of rewards. Maybe even skill bonuses sometimes. It really just depends on contextual elements in the game's mechanics and design.
It's not like he'd be doing it for free since, like I said in a previous post, those tasks would have to take up both monetary and physical resources to somewhat balance the system out.
*Edit* Well, now that I think about it, you do have a good point. Perhaps only certain tasks should give XP?
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I'm reminded a bit of Star Ocean 2 (ooo, Japanese RPG - burn the heretic!) where, upon entering a city your party broke up and did things that they wanted to do (this furthered the character relationship aspects as the Player could then find the NPCs and have dialogue scenes with them, finding out things they were interested in or wanted to do).
That's more of a Bioware Social Network thing, really. The frothing rage at the mention of JRPGs, that is. Chris Avellone loved Chrono Trigger, as far as I'm aware, from his celebratory tweet upon acquiring a set of figures of characters from the game.
Anyway, the idea reminded me of a mechanic from Super Robot Wars Z2, in which characters you didn't deploy in the previous battle could be assigned to one of four tasks which would give them some degree of growth or contribute to your monetary holdings to make up for their inability to do so during the last battle. You could assign ten characters to each of three tasks, each of which would grant benefits of some kind. e.g. One would increase the assigned pilots' level by 1, one would increase their kill count by 2 (this being useful for acquiring "Ace" status for little-used characters, granting each character a unique "Ace bonus,") and one would acquire money, with each character bringing back an amount proportional to their level (money being the primary means of improving your combat ability by buying upgrades to a given robot's stats.)
Speaking of Japanese games, I took the idea of sending out allies to gather materials from Wild Arms XF. Anyway, would sending those "campfire" allies out for "tasks" reward them with less quest exp than what you would get from doing normal quests with the active party? That's a fair way of doing it, I think.
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There's 2 ideas here and they shouldn't be confused.As JFSOCC also stated, it shouldn't be needlessly complicated. Rather, it should just be some quick dialogue options with the results determined by learned skills, the amount of time allocated, party size, and ultimately by the RNG. Another incentive to use the Adventurer's Hall, I would think, since you can just build a character for these non-combat purposes and just keep sending them off to do things for you. These things probably would require some measure of resources to successfully accomplish, though. Both monetary and physical.
I like single-party member quests in cities, which show off their own abilities.
However, since it might be possible that the number of recruited members is higher than you can take in your party at any given time (or, "camp members" as was suggested in another thread) And these I wouldn't mind "sending away on a task" the latter one is what I talking about in the post you referenced.
Ah, right. Things tend to slip my mind when writing lengthy posts. On that note, should crafting and enchanting be an included option for these "send-away tasks"? I feel as if that would take out the fun of doing it yourself. Maybe have them research new recipes?
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Some quick-fire:
* You've got 6 characters, the task ahead only requires 1. Leave 5 behind and go with 1.
* [burglary] send off a character in a city to steal gold (leaves party for X amount of time)
* [scout] send off a party outdoor (leaves party for X amount of time) basically physical "Divination". When character comes back: [Text] of what's in the area.
* [street Smarts] ^same but in cities.
* [business] (sell trash, trade/buy/sell items. One Issue that can arise with "Pre-Trading Management": Too much UI, Torchlight 2 had some minor stuff, like buy potions),
* [Read Ancient Poetry] at Library?
* WarCraft 3: Cave-in, control your party split up. One character falls through a hole, or into a trap.
* [Jail], save a character caught. Trap, Thief, Murder, Kidnapped, Caught by Monsters (when [scout]).
* [Etc. etc.] ~what else cool stuff can be done?
I think we are ready to touch some base with "abilities that has no animation" but fulfills a feature in text only. Could some features be extremely simplified?
* Climb
* Jump
* Toss
* Dig
* Teleport
All are the same, none of them require an animation (simply teleport character from A to B). * Climb a character ~he gets a favorable elevation, perhaps on a roof and can scout the area ahead/below. Controlling the rest of the Party you get further "Vision" ahead. Essential for a Stealth path, also part of "Splitting up" the party.
Does one of your characters have a bad reputation, perhaps "Wanted" posters, and bringing that character into the City by itself alerts the Guard? Perhaps you could send such a character ahead on [scout] or just leave them outside.
In some ways, Reputation being a big business as well?
EDIT: Xienzi, great idea.
Additionally, far-fetched: Adventurer's Hall = Create an army? Lesser "units", to fortify "your Kingdom", perhaps? Not "Classes", but you'd be hiring (for gold/silver/copper) different types of "Units" serving different functions? A "Footman" from a Barracks.
^Maybe not for P:E. It would be cool though
That's a nice idea, I think. The one about having characters of notorious repute go and do other things for a while until you're done. It should, like I said in my earlier post, also be applied to the inactives with the "leave party for X amount of time" part applied to all non-combat tasks. Furthermore, as JFSOCC stated, you might encounter them doing the tasks you assigned if it's located in the vicinity if you wish to recall them for some reason or check on progress. A note with the innkeeper or in your home though could serve just as well if you want them to stop their assigned task.
As for your ideas, here's my two cents:
[scout] - Primary Function: Gather materials, find the lay of the land.
Secondary Function: Depending on the scouting party's composition, have a chance to stumble upon different kinds of dungeons. For example, putting a magic user in the group has a chance to find an old wizard's tower. An abandoned grove for druids, ideal hunting or camping spots for rangers, ruins of religious import for paladins/monks/clerics.
[street Smarts] - Find out what's the talk of the town, people hiring adventurers for quests, rumors of a dungeon in X area. Ideally, I think it should have better chances to unlock optional maps rather than scouting.
[Research] - [1] At the local library. If you have the right person do it, you might be able to discover some new magic spells and even unlock a chain quest to discover more old ruins.
- [2] Or if you have a laboratory, have a character mess around and create things.
As JFSOCC also stated, it shouldn't be needlessly complicated. Rather, it should just be some quick dialogue options with the results determined by learned skills, the amount of time allocated, party size, and ultimately by the RNG. Another incentive to use the Adventurer's Hall, I would think, since you can just build a character for these non-combat purposes and just keep sending them off to do things for you. These things probably would require some measure of resources to successfully accomplish, though. Both monetary and physical.
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This intrigues me :D
FYI, Magic Candle handles the split party by giving the ability for the player to "flip" to the "non-adventuring" characters when the "main party" is not in combat. The non adventuring members will be at the location appropriate for the job in the town you left them. eg. smith for forging, library for researching. I don't think there is too much interaction for the crafting players other than stop whatever they are doing. I don't remember exactly what happen if you stop their job, I think they will rejoin your party after "x" amount of time passed or walk around the town they are in and start another job.
I think split party can be an idea that can be further developed. Personally, I would like more "game"/activity for the non adventuring party integrating some of element from that old, old Koei strategy games like Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Nobunaga's Ambition. Like NPCs would have some "off line"/non-adventuring stats they can develope by doing jobs/quest. So if the player decide to rotate them out for other duties like running a shop, would improve their "business skill" + some extra change in the pocket. And when you get your stronghold, you can have the guy you groom for running a business to take charge of the treasury to improve your domain's income.
A more elaborate version could involve a character volunteer as guards and with improved skill in "military leadership", your NPC can become guard captain in certain city thus giving you some mid game benefit of know the guard captain in a major city. And in late game, you could run into the problem your NPC friend has found his life calling as a guard captain and kind of leave the adventuring to you. A further complication can be in late game, your decision made you an enemy of the city you former ally is now defending making him an antagonist/enemy.
I do like the idea of having the "other" playable characters actually having something to do instead of, you know, just sitting around waiting to be picked to be part of the active party. In that sense, it would also give an incentive to make use of the Adventurer's Hall to hire(create) adventurers to do things for you such as patrolling and hunting around your player home and/or stronghold. Another idea for that mechanic is that maybe certain towns and dungeons can only be found by having a sub-party go out to scout the area and then report back to you.
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If we do get a stronghold, it would be nice to have the option of creating companions in the Adventurer's Hall and hiring them to run errands around the place. Maybe even have your unused companions do things too.
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Relationships and travels (Also, party's jobs)
in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)
Posted
There are plenty of threads discussing out-of-party npc jobs. Just saying.