Jump to content
The Community Blog (An Invitation)

Sensuki

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    9931

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    133

 Content Type 

Posts posted by Sensuki

    The truth behind the words in constantine's "The 'Truth' behind words in RPG Codex's #1 Review for PoE "

    in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

    Posted · Edited by Sensuki

    Stage 2 of loss and grief: Anger - manifested by posting on forums about one's disappointment instead of punching things

     

    Next up is Bargaining, where I'll be "FFS IF ONLY I SPOKE OUT IN THE WHAT MOULDS SHOULD BE BROKEN THREAD"

    Then I'll go into depression where I don't even feel like playing games, because everything sucks (Actually that's where I feel like right now, maybe I'm in stage 4)

    and then will come Acceptance. Someday, I might get there.

    • Like 4

    The truth behind the words in constantine's "The 'Truth' behind words in RPG Codex's #1 Review for PoE "

    in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

    Posted · Edited by Sensuki

    Really? Because I'm pretty sure the opposite of that is, as I stated in the OP, "I liked it, here's why".

     

    And it seems that you have no problem with that

     

    I've also seen people state that bad reviews simply give a list of features and then a summary. You don't see reviews of other media that do that I don't think. Certainly not movie or TV show reviews.

    The truth behind the words in constantine's "The 'Truth' behind words in RPG Codex's #1 Review for PoE "

    in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

    Posted

    What I don't get though, is that why the people who don't like POE hang around in the forums? That's a bit odd. If I don't like a game I move on - it's been a long time since I posted on Biowares forums for example.

    I don't play GTA V or Bloodborne so there's not really any other new games to talk about at the moment. The next upcoming RPG is Serpent in the Staglands, in about a month's time. Which reminds me, I should probably go report some bugs for them.

    The truth behind the words in constantine's "The 'Truth' behind words in RPG Codex's #1 Review for PoE "

    in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

    Posted

    I see what you did there.

     

     

     

    Why did you start a new thread for this?

     

     

     

    I had to, or else my words would end up buried in 45something pages of poster vs poster arguments.

     

    And there isn't a matter of importance, rather than every man stating their views and be criticised for them.

     

    Yes, makes enough sense to me. Is there a forum rule against it ?

     

    What is important to me is that people who haven't played the game yet and stumble into the RPGCodec Review #1 topic, can later check that one-

     

    the truth about it.

     

    :) Spot on

    • Like 1

    The truth behind the words in constantine's "The 'Truth' behind words in RPG Codex's #1 Review for PoE "

    in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

    Posted · Edited by Sensuki

    I would like to point out that constantine's thread here about the author of the RPGCodex review #1 is full of fallacy, and he does not even remotely know the author, or his opinions.

     

    He says in his third post in the thread

     

    What is important to me is that people who haven't played the game yet and stumble into the RPGCodec Review #1 topic, can later check that one-

     

    the truth about it.

    Well, if that's the case - I consider it important to me to point out "the truth" about this post.

     

    To clarify things, Darth Roxor's essay about PoE cannot be considered a 'review', despite the author names it such, if only for the staggering amount of spoilers it contains. A reader has to avoid/skip sentences or be spoiled of the acts of the main quest, certain sidequests and encounters of the game.

    As far as I am aware, a review is allowed to contain spoilers. In fact, there are plenty of reviews online that contain spoilers. A simple google search will produce such results.

     

    The other review for the Codex is going to be written by the prestigious Vault Dweller who recently let us know his opinion of reviews:

     

    A review is nothing but 'I liked it, here is why' or 'I hated, here is why'. It would be dishonest to like a game yet rip it apart (every game has flaws) or hate a game yet give it a favorable review.

     

    A good reviewer (and I'm not saying I am one) should explain why he liked or disliked it, so that the reader wouldn't have to take his word for it but be able to form his own opinion based on the info provided. I believe I've done that and even though it's clear that I liked the game, the review contains plenty of warnings. I explained the setting, character and combat systems in details, so that people can decide for themselves if the game is for them. Beyond that...

    The aforementioned Pillars of Eternity review by Darth Roxor is essentially "I hated it, here's why" - that's a review, whether you like it or not.

     

    Now to the essay itself. The long, tiring to read block of text boils down to this:

     

    'I wanted a crpg with Baldur's Gate's (..BG2, IWD1,2) mechanics.'

    I contest the notion that Darth Roxor wanted a CRPG with Baldur's Gate (or rather Infinity Engine) mechanics. I am under the impression that Darth Roxor is neither a big fan of D&D or the Infinity Engine games. His favourite recent RPG is a game called Blackguards which is a strategy RPG with turn-based combat. Blackguards received critical acclaim on the Codex for it's deep and challenging combat system.

     

    Based on this I can conclude that Darth Roxor simply wanted a game with good combat. He seems to have enjoyed the Baldur's Gate 2 combat but thought Baldur's Gate was mediocre, according to his statements made in the review. He played Pillars of Eternity and did not think the combat was very good. This is not a controversial opinion as there are lots of people (including myself) that criticize the combat as poor for one reason or another. Darth Roxor illustrated the same issues that myself and many others on this forum and on the RPGCodex have with the combat.

     

    B.The author thinks Attributes in PoE do not offer considerable bonuses, then proposes to the reader min-maxing attribute options for various character combat roles, in essence contradicting himself, while proposing a certain power-gaming playstyle in a review.

    Darth Roxor made an individual comment about each attribute and then provided a summary, moving onto the other parts of the character system. He did not contradict himself as constantine said - he outlined which attributes he thought were weaker than others and then summarized that you can dump attributes based on your combat role.

     

    In his summary of the character system he stated that:

     

    everything you pick is kind of, sort of, equally useful (with some exceptions). But the flipside to this is that everything is also equally bland. The characters are samey. The playstyles for different parties hardly ever differ, unless you go for something crazy like 6 wizards. The statistics you pick hardly even matter as long as you have the levels to support them. It is simply weak, generic and uninteresting to boot, and it’s particularly funny just how much it feels like a neutered DnD.
    He is saying here is that in trying to make everything equally useful, the system is less interesting than D&D. I assume he's talking about D&D 3E/3.5E which has a very rich character system that lends itself well to min-maxing and crazy multi-class power gaming builds.

     

    He continues with

     

    But speaking of DnD, I suppose a question needs asking: how does this system compare to the IE games? Well, it definitely has more options than the early 2nd edition ones, like BGs and IWD1, but it simply can’t match Obsidian’s very own NWN2, or hell, maybe even IWD2. Not to mention that the character systems of the IE games were weak to begin with, and saying that PoE reaches higher than that is not exactly much of a praise.
    Everything he says here is absolutely correct.

     

    The character system does not reward min-maxing and munchkin builds as much as D&D 3E/3.5E, in the sense that even if you do make such a build in Pillars of Eternity that they end up 'feeling similar' to playing a completely different character, due to the way the character system works.

     

    It was one of the goals of the character system to be this way, and I believe the 'feeling similar' to a different character part was not an intentional thing, as the outcome or 'feel' was not the focus in the first place.

     

    Darth Roxor simply thinks this is a bad thing.

     

    C.The author claims encounters in PoE are uninterested, easily exploited and fall into MMO-like resolutions. Those statements are not entirely false, but the typical player, who doesn't specifically look to cheat the game, *will* have a vastly different experience.

    Constantine then goes on to kind of agree(?) with the three statements that encounters are uninteresting, easily beaten and feel a bit MMO-ish. However he then goes on to make a statement about the "typical player", who doesn't specifically look to "cheat the game" and how they will have a vastly different experience.

     

    If you change "cheat the game" to a person who "is good at combat in games" then you have a true statement. People who learn systems and gameplay and optimize their playing tend to find Pillars of Eternity's combat a dull, repetitive affair - as Darth Roxor does. Others who may not necessarily learn systems, perform optimal movements and actions in combat or learn from their mistakes, if they even realize they are making one - these people will have a great time.

     

    The difference here is, Darth Roxor belongs to the former crowd, whereas Pillars of Eternity's combat is aimed more at the latter crowd. This is why constantine might enjoy it but Darth Roxor does not.

     

    This next bit is where it gets gnarly

     

    And since the author judges PoE from the old games perspective, it is another insult to the reader's face to choose to ignore how broken, unbalanced and full of exploits combat was in those games. No need to detail here, those issues are known for years. Mind you, I still love and play the old games, but I intentionally hamper myself to enjoy challenge in combat.

    Pillars of Eternity also includes quite a few exploits, as demonstrated by the first person who completed a TCS. There are also more broken and imbalanced combos. One thing may be that Obsidian (well, Josh Sawyer) care more about exploit preventation that BioWare did, and have been trying to actively remove them and they had the benefit of a 7 month backer beta to help them do so. I think this statement is unfair because both games include these things. The difference is that Constantine may not know about the exploits yet as he does with the Infinity Engine exploits, and maybe he finds it hard to resist using them or something as he thinks that not using them is 'hampering himself' to enjoy the game. I disagree with the notion that not using exploits is 'hampering yourself', it's simply not using exploits/cheating.

     

    D.The author is not satisfied with role-playing elements in dialogue choices, PoE's reputation system and world reactivity to player's action.

     

    Again, judging the game from the perspective of the old games, he continues to blatantly lie. The old games (save PS:T) had zero reactivity and only an illusion of rp, most of the part occuring in the player's head, since the actual games (almost) never delivered. Mind you, I love the old games, but one has to give credit where is due (unlike the RPG Codex's 'reviewer'). PoE is tons more rpg than the old legendary ie rpgs.

    This also has a bunch of false statements in it. Here is what he had to say about reactivity

     

    Obsidian even put in a whole system tracking the player’s reputation and demeanor. Most dialogue options you pick have a mood associated with them (aggressive, stoic, rational, etc), and every now and again you’ll find NPCs reacting to them if your score is big enough. Sometimes it can even alter quests in a minor way or scare a combat encounter away. The system has its issues because the reputations aren't mutually exclusive, so you can be known as cruel, benevolent, honest and deceptive at the same time, plus many of their dialogue lines aren't very well-written (all you do as a [stoic] person is nod at everything), but at least it’s something, a good idea. And it’s simply another element in PoE that is disappointingly underused.
    Darth Roxor did not make a comparison of the reactivity in the Infinity Engine games and Pillars of Eternity other than the fact that if you attack people in the Infinity Engine games you lose reputation and people turn hostile, which more often than not does not happen in Pillars of Eternity (you might lose reputation but people don't care).

     

    He did however think that the disposition system was underused.

     

    Constantine is right that Pillars of Eternity contains more reactivity as a whole than any of the Infinity Engine games that are not Planescape: Torment, but one of the problems is that this reactivity is spread very thin over the many races, classes, cultures, backgrounds, reputations with various factions and dispositions - so while there is a large gross of reactivity based on these things in total, you may not actually experience many of them. They made it difficult for themselves in that regard with the sheer amount of options, probably going way overboard.

     

    Darth Roxor finds this disappointing, especially coming from Obsidian.

     

    Then there are some parts about the 'review' that are plainly mean. Darth Roxor must really hate some Obsidian people to throw so much vile. He is unfair about the quality of writing, quest content and resolution and the thematics of the main quest.

    I don't see any hate here, considering that Darth Roxor stated that he enjoyed past Obsidian games. I see disappointment that he thought that the writing was not as good as their past games that had any sort of focus on writing.

     

    I link you here to a 40 page thread discussing "the writing is average": http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-writing-in-this-game-is-average.98103/ that contains many good points.

     

    In summary, I disagree with everything Constantine says in his thread. Darth Roxor's review IS a review, which makes many good points, and he did not just want "BG mechanics".

     

    You do not have to agree with his review, feel free to make up your own mind. Coming from Roxor's gaming background I can easily see why he feels the way he does.

    • Like 6

    RPGCodex Review #1 - Hŵrpa Dwrp

    in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

    Posted · Edited by Sensuki

     

     

    Yes because it echoes your own hyper-negative views that you want to discuss ad nauseum for some reason.

     

    Poor ROI

     

     

     

    Oh and the reason is because I see you and others trying to poison the PoE well, actively trying to hurt its sales as far as I can tell, and I refuse to let you people have your little echo chamber of negativity.

     

    Hahah, oh man. How old are you?

    A bit of negativity on one forum and one thread of a different forum isn't going to do squat, plus I've already given the game a lot of positive exposure over the last two years, particularly around the release date with my character creation videos and contribution to the IE mod.

     

    If I wanted to truly be 'harmful' (in a laughable way) I would remove my videos from the internet. Why would I bother doing that?

    RPGCodex Review #1 - Hŵrpa Dwrp

    in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

    Posted

    I don't really pay much attention to the things you post because all you do is gripe and whine, so I really have no idea if you specifically have made lots of references to BG2 and how this game should be more like that one.  Others have made such posts though.  A lot of them in fact.  As far as you go, I think you should just go find a game that you actually like, play that, and stop trying to ruin PoE for everyone else.  It's not healthy man.

    How am I trying to ruin the game for everyone else?

     

    I'm posting in this thread only, and on the RPGCodex. I am not trying to influence the game mechanics or balance in any way. Nor am I producing any anti-PE content elsewhere on the web.

     

    As to why I am posting, well at the moment I don't have too much else to do and I'm pretty mad about how the game turned out.

    RPGCodex Review #1 - Hŵrpa Dwrp

    in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

    Posted · Edited by Sensuki

    If you think Brother None wanted to appease Bethesda, despite being vocally against the game and Bethesda probably not caring in the slightest what some dude on a website that sees 1/1000th of the traffic of their own boads thinks, be my guest but it kinda looks like you want to discredit him for something other than what he actually writes. Which strikes me as a bit dishonest.

    Way to take a statement way out of proportion. I said it wouldn't have been in his best interest to write a seething review about a Fallout game (and didn't say that he would), like Roxor did with this game. But hey you're free to consider that review and reviewer the shining light of reviews and lack of bias all you like.

     

    I already said I don't want nor expect 100% total, dry objectivity in reviews- even if only because a review with no opinion is impossible if you go into details. But there is a vast difference between this and the nerdrage-y drivel that was the Codex review. If you like it, more power to you, I have no interest in that sort of writing myself. I'd gladly take someone like Brother None, or to take a more popular example Totalbiscuit, who share their opinion, sometimes with passion, but don't back them up with falalcious arguments and gross hyperbole in the name of ''fun''. Lord knows we have more than enough of those sort of reviews on sites like Metacritic (to say nothing of forums), and being overly critical is in my mind just as bad as being an IGN writer who can't give AAA games a bad score for fear of losing his privileged access and marketing money.

    Good for you. I don't really read any reviews outside of Codexian reviews and I don't follow any twitch/youtube personalities. I'm interested in the opinions of people from my home forum who do not write reviews for money, and can do it in any style they like.

     

    I'm sure you'll find Vault Dweller and Grunker's review more to your tastes, which should be out in a few weeks (after VD finishes the game lol).

     

    No, they just wanted a game that completely and totally emulated BG2 in every way possible (even though BG2 was itself very flawed).

    Really? Please link me to where I said such a thing. Pretty sure I've re-iterated many times that I wanted reactive tactical combat (of which, this game doesn't have - it's mostly strategical and rote in nature) and I expressed disappointment about the plot & story which is a lot worse than most other Obsidian games I've played (save for perhaps the NWN2 OC, but even that didn't have such plot issues).

     

    Also, to your above statement - I am posting in this thread because it's a thread about an RPG Codex review. I have not posted in any other thread recently, and don't plan to, so if you don't want to read my opinion - don't read this thread. Simple as that.

×
×
  • Create New...