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Chrisimo
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Posts posted by Chrisimo
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Both options deny the heretics the possibility to self-determinate. The difference is that the Renegade choice is permanent. As with many moral decisions in this game there is not a distinction between black and white but between gray and grayer.
Killing is seldom considered paragon as it can't be reversed.
No, only the option to rewrite denies the heretics self-determination. The other results in their destruction following a freely chosen course of action.
And Paragon or not, I don't think Shepard has trouble killing, as long as it's not unnecessary. This choice is between killing a group of sentients, or relegating them to the role of mere machines to be debugged when need arises.
Destruction means that they won't be able to self-determinate anymore. Rewriting them gives them the choice to self-determinate again in the future. They might even convince the others to join the Reapers. Destroying them denies them that possibility. Besides that it is irrational to argue from their point of view as we don't know their point of view. We only now the point of view of the other Geth and the heretics have decided that they don't want to self-determinate anymore. And they made that decision somewhere in the past. Maybe there is even a dispute going on within the heretics collective as to whether they should continue following the Reapers. We don't know that. Therefore their point of view should be outside of our reasoning.
And it's not the question if Shepard has problems with killing. Of course the renegade shepard does not have a problem with it. The paragon Shepard though has more of a problem with it.
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Concerning Legion's loyalty mission:
Anyone else feels that the decision in that quest (and the morality point reward) is inconsistent with what's being done? Or perhaps Bio has an ace up their sleeve with regards to this for ME3 and they were intentionally playing games with this quest?
Legion specifically remarks that "Geth believe that every sapient species should self-determine"... which is the exact opposite of what the "Paragon" option does. In this case, destroying the Heretics is both a necessity motivated by self-defense and consistent with Geth creed. However, the game seems to suggest the opposite, with rewriting being presented as the more merciful choice. By rewriting the Heretics, Shep is sending the message that he doesn't care much for synthetic self-determination, and is thus making the Heretics' logic seem more valid. Only now, the former Heretics and their intact memories are an integral part of the Geth. Smells funny, no?
I can't solve this dilemma.
Both options deny the heretics the possibility to self-determinate. The difference is that the Renegade choice is permanent. As with many moral decisions in this game there is not a distinction between black and white but between gray and grayer.
Killing is seldom considered paragon as it can't be reversed.
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"Hey, does anyone here think that ME1 is better than ME2?"
They're about equal. ME2 combat *is* dumbed. The end sequence espciailly the C&C leading up to it is better. But, the dumbed down combat *and* character system as well. Dunno why people are defending a dumbed down system.
Some people prefer a cut diamond to a raw one.
"the citadel definitely felt more alive, even if it felt smaller, better missions, better visuals"Kiddin' right? The Citedal in ME2 was a waste. They didn't even try with it. Never added to the game. ME Citedal is one of the best 'city' areas in any game.
I liked the new Citadel just as much, if not more. Sure, it was smaller, but I liked the design and interactions. Having the ME1 Citadel again would'nt have been as good. Glad to see a different part this time.
Also, mako in ME1 is underrated. mako wasn't the problem with exploration, the all bumpy akll the time terrain was. Mako should ahve been twinked not removed.True, the main problem was the bad terrain. Not all planets had this and the ones with better terrain had at least some nice views into the eky. But the carbon-copy type of building were another problem.
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I'm not sure I understand the reason for implementing such DRM schemes. DRM only works with people who don't look for cracks, right? So we have three groups of people:
- People who buy the game
- People who don't buy the game and download a crack
- People who don't buy the game, don't download a crack and can't play the game because of DRM
So the last group is where DRM works, but the most basic disc check would suffice. Every thing on top of that would annoy those who buy the game if it malfunctions.
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Because its childishly simplistic and unimaginative. The alien/fantasy race is usually a human society frozen in some sort of pre-defined characteristics. Star Trek is the worst example.
Its also often anthropocentric with humans being capable of everything, and the most reasonable and sensible of the lot.
I think the Geth are a cool invention, the only really alien race in ME. Of course the self aware AI hive mind has been done before, but this is a well thought out idea nonetheless. Particularily the convincing hardware software deal, which just proves that personal experience (of the devs in this case) nets the best ideas.
The Geth are just really small emotionless humans with direct brain to brain ftl communication and a democracy where only 100% votes count.
Really, view Legion as a spaceship with humans onboard who need to get consensus before the spaceship can go anywhere.
It's a collective in a sense like we humans are. Individual decision based on shared information yet every individual retains it's own perspective. Their communication is more effective and more efficient, they lack our emotions but have other drives and of course have a modular configuration (individual Geth programs make up Geth runtimes who make decisions), but in the end they are not very different from us.
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Yup, let's just ignore the obvious threat to our existence when we are given actual physical evidence. I can see them not telling the people that, but they didn't seem to be doing anything in secret either.
What evidence? They said that they examined the parts of Sovereign and found no evidence that they were anything other than advanced Geth technology. The Prothean VI doesn't work anymore, either. Ok, they could at least do some something in secret, that's true. But it seems like they wouldn't tell you if they were, because you are associated with Cerberus. Convenient, I know, but I'm sure we would find enough examples like that in the real world.
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The council took such a backseat in ME2 that it might just as well been in another car.
"Nothing happened to the Citadel, it was just a weather balloon, move along."
To be honest, it seems perfectly believable that they attribute it to the Geth. The thought that there would be maybe thousands more of those big ships is simply too scary for many. Easier and more convenient to believe that it was a Geth flagship.
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"It would be funny if it turned at the end of ME3 that the Reapers have been harvesting the galaxy for millions of years just to prepare themselves to ultimately fight an even greater threat (maybe their creators)... and in the end, as the last Reaper goes down in flames, Shepard finally realizes the Reapers were saviours, instead of destroyers, and that all (s)he has done is just dooming the galaxy to final extinction."
I would buy that gladly, but since it's a biogame, I don't think anything cool as total destruction of life is going to happen.
The thought that game to my mind, is that the race that created the reapers ages ago evolved to a point that they became more like "energy" or something that's beyond life and death. They became just about immortal, but their minds couldn't take it and it was more like hell to them. Who would want to live forever anyway? So to ensure that no other race will achieve that level they created the reapers to sweep them under the carpet every 50000 years.
Didn't the harbinger say something like "destruction is your salvation?
At the end of the ME3 would be a sniff sniff waah waah dialogue with the creator race how they just wanted to help.
I think the Reapers maybe were not created but evolved to what they are now. Maybe their ancestors were the equivalent to our transhumanists, believing that their then current state of evolution was merely a trantitional state and they would evolve into higher beings by merging with their technology.
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Also, I'm confused.
Just how in the hell are the reapers doing anything from all the way out in dark space? I thought they were hibernating. Now we find out they're pulling all kinds of junk.
What gives?
Maybe Sovereign woke them up before trying to open the Citadel Portal...so that they would be prepared to go through once it's open without having to boot up
. Back to TIM's plans, I see one of two possibilities. Either he intends to "evolve" humanity into to their "pinnacle" state that is a human reaper. Or he intends to build a counter-reaper force by harvesting aliens into alien reapers. Now a Krogan Reaper would be immense IMO. That or a Blasto The Hanar Reaper. Or even just Blasto himself. Yeah, that ought to teach them.Why build a Reaper? Just salvage the technology. The upgraded Normandy gun is based on Reaper tech and packs quite a punch. EDI is based on Reaper tech. TIM wants power for himself (mostly) and humanity at any cost but even he would try to make use of the technology first before building an own Reaper.
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keeping fish alive is harder than saving the galaxy...If you
invite Kelly to your quarters for a "dinner date", then she'll offer to feed your fish for you
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Does that mess up any of your romances with other characters?
No. Not sure if it interferes with continuing ME1 romances, but does not interfere with ME2 ones.
You can always check the status of the ME1 romances by going to the captain's quarters and looking at the picture frame. If it lies on the table then your ME1 romance is over or at least suspended. If it shows your ME1 LI then the romance with that LI is still active.
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RE Shadow Broker: the impression I get is that the SB is not a new player in the galactic scene, unlike humanity. This is not supported by facts, though, so it could be easily either way.
Yes, that is my impression, as well. And it was mentioned by Barla Von that the Shadow Broker tries to keep the current power balance. That doesn't fit with Cerberus' motives. Of course it may just be a plot to get aliens or humans working for him.
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Just a guess:I don't know if you were being sarcastic here because it doesn't make sense to me.he meant that TIM having absolute control means he supervises the evil splinter groups too.
Yeah, that's how I understood it, too. And that's what doesn't make sense.
Jack's loyalty mission shows a Cerberus group gone rogue from Cerberus. So the Illusive Man took direct control over the groups because of splinter groups like that. So that it doesn't happen again.
Anyway, I think it's possible that Miranda did not have a problem with the methods of those splinter groups and only changed her mind after seeing some of those things in person (you can see the same type of conflict with Mordin). Like someone might condone torture and changes his mind when he is present while someone is tortured.
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I think most people don't like his monotone voice and think he can't (voice)act because of that.
I think even more people just don't like him and his voice in general, and try to objectify their subjective preferences by claiming he's not good.
True...that happens very often when you don't like something. You try to find reasons to explain your dislike but even if those reasons are removed you still don't like it overall.
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And did I miss something or is it actually possible TIM is the shadow broker? You can't tell me he isn't an intel magnet. And I don't know why but I can't help but escape the feeling he could be the final villain in ME3, where we'll see him put his implant modifications to use. I suspect when the Reapers are gone either paragon Shepard will have to stop TIM from controlling humanity/the galaxy through Cerberus, or renegade Shepard will try to overthrow TIM and take over humanity/the galaxy for himself/herself.
It is explained in the Comics that the Shadow Broker tries to get Shepard's dead body for the Collectors and TIM recruits Liara to work against the Shadow Broker and recover the body for Cerberus
And Numbers Man, you're not the first person to not like male Shepard's voice acting, and as you said, I suppose if you're not carefree on whether you mind hearing someone else saying your lines rather than in your own head, you wouldn't like it, but if you were, it might just be the sternness and aggression in Shepard's delivery that's off putting, especially for the paragon players, but I think it's great and fits well for renegade Shepard especially, as this clip demonstrates.I think most people don't like his monotone voice and think he can't (voice)act because of that.
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You mean it couldn't possibly be that she's using Shep and pretending...?She already is at the end of ME2 depending on your choices.Frankly, the prospect of a Mata Hari of sorts is more interesting to me than yet another not-evil-but-misguided character that returns to the light by virtue of Shep's Saving Grace.
Of course it's possible but what would be the reason?
Even if you play as a renegade and give the impression that you really believe Cerberus is right she will criticize your decision to keep the base and if you choose to destroy it she doesn't try to stop you but quits with Cerberus.
Of course this may be all for show but that would just seem strange.
You meanyeah, and well, it's pretty clear from the dialogues that she's been getting the "Fox News" version of Cerberus activities while working on the science side. WhenEDI gets full access
, it becomes pretty apparent that it's not just "splinter groups" within Cerberus that are, well, downright evil.
EDI's comment about Cerberus never keeping more ops than TIM can personally oversee
, right?
Yeah, that makes sense.
I don't know if you were being sarcastic here because it doesn't make sense to me.
TIM wanting to have full control over the projects might be explained as a reaction to evil projects in the past. At least it could be explained to Miranda that way. No need to hide that information from her. Not that I believe that he wouldn't condone such 'evil' projects. He is pretty open about his motives and methods. 'at any cost' should be taken at face value
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As for Miranda... I'm going to be really disappointed if it turns out in ME3 that she's more loyal to Shep than Cerberus. Cold-hearted calculating manipulative bitch FTW!
That's the real reason for romancing Miranda... seducing her away from Cerberus to loyalty to you..
yeah, and well, it's pretty clear from the dialogues that she's been getting the "Fox News" version of Cerberus activities while working on the science side. When
EDI gets full access
, it becomes pretty apparent that it's not just "splinter groups" within Cerberus that are, well, downright evil.
I don't remember any specifics regarding evil Cerberus groups coming from EDI. I got general information about the number of groups, funding in general, etc. But no specifics about projects.
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Just checked. Everyone loyal, Legion tech specialist, Zaeed 2nd fireteam leader. Result: Legion gets acquainted with a Collector missile. =/Does it sound like this guy is a good leader?Funny, because when you pick him, Miranda says "well, at least he knows what he's doing" - Zaeed is discreetly mute...
I'm pretty sure that Miranda's feedback to the choice at that stage is basically inverse to how good the picked leader is. I know she's critical of Jacob, who can get the job done for sure.
Well, apart from the fact that she suggests herself for the position first, being one of the good choices. Guess there's a reason Shepard's the leader and not Lawson.
When you pick Garrus she says the same as when you pick Zaeed.
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As for Miranda... I'm going to be really disappointed if it turns out in ME3 that she's more loyal to Shep than Cerberus. Cold-hearted calculating manipulative bitch FTW!
She already is at the end of ME2 depending on your choices.
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ME2 Ending tweets :
"The game is going really well and folks are looking forward to where the overall plot will go. Then Fox cancels the series"
"Shepard discovers that the princess is in another castle."
"Shepard discovers that he is inside the Matrix."
"At the end of mass effect 2 you find out that Shepard was a ghost the whole time! "
"Shepard wins SAG Award for his moving documentary "In the Belly of the Beast." Harbinger sues, citing defamation of character."
"Joker makes the Kessel Run in less than eleven parsecs."
"Shepherd discovers its all a simulation, Miranda is in fact an old insane German sounding scientist pretending to be a girl."
Shepard wakes up in Normandy's sickbay after being knocked out by the Prothean beacon only find out that it all was just a highly sophisticated video game...
Which movie? -
Jacob? I never got the impression he could be a good leader - you certain he works for that role? I'll take Zaeed over him any day of the week and twice on sundays. But apparently being co-founder and head of one of the biggest merc groups in the galaxy doesn't make you a competent squad leader... may need to take a look at Blue Suns casualty rates.No, you needed to use Garrus/Miranda/Jacob as the leader of the second team the first time around.I chose him once in the second part where the leader gets shot and the right one survives while the wrong one dies - he survived. Someone on another forum mentioned that Zaeed boasts how he is always a lone survivor. I haven't verified this yet but if true this would be an explanation.
Am I the only one seeing a connection between TIM and the dark energy/failing stars business? Talking to Parasini, she mentions that Noveria's been suffering heavy hax0ring attacks against databases pertaining to dark energy research - and she's not certain it's standard corporate espionage. And what's that in the background of TIM's office, anyway? Too obvious?There's a lot of talk about dark energy so you are probably right. It seems to important for TIM not to be involved or at least informed/prepared.
And did I miss it before, or is the in-game newsflash about this "Kasumi" person something new?Kasumi will probably be a DLC character.
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No. You have two missions left after the IFF mission until the crew gets captured.
That's a pity. I was hoping to scout around with Legion much more than just his loyalty mission.
You could do Tali's loyalty mission with Legion. It's the most fun mission to take him with you, anyway. And you can take him on missions after the suicide mission. The game is still playable then and you can finish missions.
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If one does the IFF mission as soon as it becomes available, does the game 'wait' until all other N7/Recruitment/Loyalty missions are finished?
No. You have two missions left after the IFF mission until the crew gets captured.
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"Interesting but not necessary to know that to get your team through. "
Some people had questions. It doesn't matter if it's 'common sense' to you. This is for them not for know-it-alls.
Very interesting stuff actually and thanks for reposting it over here. It's not hard to get everyone to survive if you do all the loyalty missions, however it's good to know this stuff if you're trying for a minimum-accomplished-everyone-lives run.
I've got 5 people loyal on my current run. Garrus, Legion, Mordin, Miranda and Jack. Mordin was squishy, so he went back with the crew. First run through taking Garrus and Legion for the final boss led to Tali being dead after the HTL moment. However it doesn't appear that there is any combination I can make with those 4 loyal squaddies that results in Tali surviving. Because I'm obsessed with making sure everyone lives, this will be the second time I backtrack to the IFF mission in order to do more stuff. However, next time around it'll provide some more guidance on who I need loyal.
Send Legion back with the crew and take Miranda and Mordin with you to fight the last boss.
Did you recruit everyone?
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"Get out of the human mindset. Krogans are *aliens* for a reason, and that's a good thing. "
there are no genuine alien characters in mass effect or mass effect 2-- and that ain't a criticism. makes genuine alien and you remove possibility of simple empathy and understanding. for a story-driven game to work it is necessary for krogan and even geth to be human. sure, they is savage tribals who were forcibly evolved and then smacked down hard via a disease that attacked their native fecundity, but there is nothing alien 'bout krogan emotions and characters... they is human, regardless of how they looks.
some silicon-based puddle of goo from tralfax iv could be making for an intriguing alien, but unless it gots recognizable human emotions and motivations it would never be suitable as a crpg character.
HA! Good Fun!
Humans cannot imagine truly alien characters. Unless you count insects as aliens. Every 'alien' species will always be a mixture of what wee see in other humans or animals. That was my point about Krogans as a species being somewhat alien because they all seemingly have the same mindset. For humans this would be impossible. You will always have an anti-war type, regardless of circumstance (though percentage of war/anti-war types will vary of course).
If the writer want to create an alien species the most obvious difference to humans will be looks/physiology. Otherwise there isn't much a writer can do.
The krogans are dying because of the genophage and the wanderlust which is a result of it; but the warlike mindset predates it by far. Wrex is simply trying to find a way to prevent the extinction of the krogan around the genophage.The Krogans are dying out because of their mindset. At least that much is said by Wrex. So it's not like the writers haven't thought about the problematic nature of the Krogan singlemindedness in relation to their survival. The fact that they installed Wrex as the leader shows that the writers think like you. Remember that before the genophage the Krogans at least had the numbers. If only one of 1000 births is successfull then they at least had the manpower aspect covered before the genophage. It is even possible that their wars were an effective way to keep the population in check. I think it would be really illuminating to have transcriptions of everything the writer have discussed during the creation of the Krogan species. It's easy to dismiss their development as stupid or lacking in thought when you do not know the writers thoughts behind that.The reason societies progress forward is because their advances give them a decisive edge over competitors. That it takes player intervention (made flesh in Wrex) for a krogan to even propose these changes is exactly what I'm complaining about. How many other krogan share his views? Have you tried importing a save where Wrex died on Virmire?
As for what the writers may have been thinking... irrelevant speculation. Only meaningful discussion can be about what is in the game, no?
No, because we don't have enough information as to how the Krogans survived this long. We have to speculate. We both agree that the Krogans are dying out now because most of them would rather fight and die as mercenaries than do something about their species situation. And the writers agree about that too. The only thing that we don't agree about is that the Krogan couldn't have survived this long or couldn't have developed fission.
Having a warlike mindset in itself does not hinder progress. A lot of our progresses have been made in preparation for or during wars. Very often the military would invent things that are later used for civilian purposes. We don't know how the Krogan were like before the genophage. They had developed fission. This would be an indicator that they did have a more rational approach to war during that time.
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I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite thread on Obsidian
in Computer and Console
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Their right to self-determination is respected but their ability to self-determinate is removed. And we are not talking about a war, but extermination. Extinction is not morally acceptable if there is another way.
And why would it be considered immoral for Shepard to rewrite the heretics and not immoral to destroy them?
Paragon Shepard has no problems killing in direct self-defense such as when the mobile heretic platforms attack him. Exterminating a whole subset of a species because they might harm him again would be extremely problematic for paragon Shepard.