River

WORST. MOVIE. EVER. ABSOLUTELY ONE OF THE WORST! And, you haven't missed anything by not watching the series. Aren't we all surprised that she's working at all! I watched a couple of episodes, hoping it would get better, but in my opinion (added especially for you, Volourn, as I know you value that everyone has a right to an opinion) , it never succeeded (or even came close)!

I only used the one character as an example becuase this was tht most recent case that one of my charitable foundations has dealt with, there are many, many more where that came from. Contrary to your belief, he is but one of many. I also didn't mention that along with these other women receiving state aid for the children he has fathered, three of the women also have one or more additional children by other fathers. None of them are married to any of the various fathers. He has only chosen to marry his wife (and mother of two of his offspring) because she is from a family that will bail them out (IE will provide for their grandchildren rather than see them go with out even though that means that they go without themselves) and he thought he saw a free ride in his future. If any one of these women needed public aid to help them provide for their children and attempt to better themselves, that would be one thing. But, when they continue having children (after it is obvious that they cannot provide for the first one) and continue drawing on the welfare system, I have a huge problem with that. I do not have a problem with parents (single or couples) drawing on the welfare system to support themselves and their children while they are attempting to change their situations. I provide shelter, pay utility bills, provide job training and education grants, travel expenses, food, daycare expenses & clothing for families (conventional, alternative or single-parent-- there are many, many definitions for "family") who are in dire straits due to all types of emergencies and other unforseen situations from several foundations that I have established. But I expect my sponsered families to grow and learn and to be able to support themselves eventually, not to depend upon the welfare system (or my generosity and the generosity of others) to support them for the rest of their lives. I do not mind my taxes paying for programs like this, either. I do mind supporting generation after generation of abuse and neglect victimes just because everyone thinks they have the "right" to reproduce-- and the "right" to live off the system just because they think they deserve better in life (at the expense of those who educate themselves then actually work for a living)! I am not a cold and cruel person, you always read about stories of people who started out in abject poverty and made good of themselves (and I am honoured to be acquainted with several such people). The problem is that those are the stories that are few and far between, not the stories like the one I have discussed here. You seem to think that this sort of thing happens rarely, I can assure you that it does not. To think otherwise is to ignore the reality of the situation. And to think that everyone should be allowed their "right" to reproduce, then have the government clean up the messes of failed and unfit parents is just downright ridiculous! What does the government do with these poor, abused and unwanted children? Who takes care of them? Few foster parents (and even fewer adoptive parents) want "problem" or "emotionally damaged" children-- not many people are equipped to deal with "special needs" children that arise out of these situations. Very few people actually decide to do better, or to become better people-- it's much easier to just keep taking and to pay the world back for all the evils done to yourself because you were a child of poverty and had uncaring and abusive parents besides. There is too much of the "you owe me", "I got rights", "it's not my fault, I was abused/ignored/neglected when I was a kid" and "me, me, me" attitude. I'm just saying that there need to be limits set and one way of doing that would be by making sure that people are prepared and eqipped to become parents BEFORE the fact, not AFTER.

You are quite right! For example, the UK will provide welfare to parents of children until the youngest child is twelve! What a perfectly good reason not to get off your *** and get a real job! And when baby is getting close to that magic age of 12, pop out another! Much of my work is done in the USA, so I am quite familiar with the absurdity of the systems in both Europe and the United States. In answer to your other comments: I only support childcare for the children, as well. Unfortunately, most of the money does not goto the children, parents spend it on themselves. Daddy likes to have his bear and ciggies before baby gets nappies. And, mommy is stressed and needs a new outfit so she can feel better about herself. They both need a night out on the town to relax and unwind. Who could blame them, what with a house full of kids under the age of ten? 2. You would be amazed at the number of men who have children by multiple women and accept no responsibility. I see them day in and day out and I stopped being surprised, shocked or even amazed many years ago! You would also be surprised at the number of people who have children to use them as leverage for welfare payouts and benefits- as a meal ticket, so to speak. The more babies, the bigger the paycheck! 3. No, he hasn't yet, but that can be of little comfort to the wife that he abuses both mentally and physically, especially when he is standing above her pounding her head into the floor- even if she is too scared or stupid to leave him. He has put a gun to her head and pulled the trigger (fortunately, it wasn't loaded, at least not that time). What do you think will happen when the day comes that she refuses his demands for sex or even the bank card so he can go buy the aforementioned beer and ciggies? All it takes is one bad day... And, of course, his attorneys will say that he was a victim himself, abused as a child and let down by society, it really wasn't his fault, it is our fault, we (society) failed him and made him broken. Bull****!

I do not agree with you in regard to that comment. Not many people have a choice when it comes to which country they are citizens of. Most people are citizens of a country by birth, not by choice (and before you suggest that if I do not like the country that I might be a citizen of, why don't I just move to another one, let me ask you this: Have you ever tried to emmigrate to another country? The red tape can keep you busy for a lifetime!). And, unfortunately, I alone cannot fix what is wrong with the system (although I certainly strive every day to try to have some positive effect). Too many people are ready to sit and ***** about what is wrong with the system, but very few are willing to actually get off their collective rears and do anything about it.

So, my hard earned tax dollars are supposed to support all the parents on welfare who thought it their "right" to have children, then failed to support them, for whatever reason? Or, are my dollars supposed to go to support the ones that the government has to take from the unfit parents who never should have had them in the first place (because as it turns out, said parents either cannot or will not support these children)? How about the children that are born to parents who simply use them as a means of increasing their monthly payments from the government? The ones born because mommy wanted to trap daddy into marrying her? Or mommy was too damned lazy to use birth control ("I went down to the clinic to get put on birth control, but I found out I was pregnant"- here's a clue: go BEFORE you decide to have sex)? Or daddy didn't use a condom because "it just doesn't feel the same"? Or the orphans that are in society because the abusive daddy killed mommy and is currently serving a life term? How about the children of serial rapists and killers sitting on death row that are allowed conjugal visits with whatever "jailhouse groupie" they've charmed into marrying them? In the USA, I know a man that currently has seven children by six different mothers in five different states. He dropped out of high school and has no marketable skills, so can only work minimum wage jobs- when he does work. When he gets a job, it lasts until one of the states catches up to him and attempts to make him pay some of the tens of thousands of dollars he owes in back child support. Then he quits and moves on. He has lived in nine states in the last five years and has worked seventeen different jobs (none of these jobs has lasted longer than the ninety days it takes the various states to locate him), when he wasn't busy collecting welfare. His wife (God only knows why he chose to marry this one!) bitterly complains that after "all the bitches get theirs, nothing is left for my kids" (she was unaware of the other children until after she married him, she says). He is mean, abusive and useless, yet she refuses to leave him, after all, he did choose to marry her, so he must love her! And, not only are he, his wife and their two children on welfare (they are up at midnight on the first day of the month waiting for food stamps so they can go shopping- usually the food stamps are gone within the first two weeks), the other five mothers and their children are collecting those monthly checks (welfare, food stamps, free medical care- every dime they can get their grubby little fingers on). Some of these people have been receiving government support for over ten years (one for sixteen)! This should infuriate you, as you are the one(s) picking up the tab! PLEASE! Not only do her poor children suffer in this hell, my dollars support some useless ******* because he cannot keep his **** in his pants- or wear a condom! These people do NOT have the right to have children and I should NOT have to support yet another generation of abused and neglected children just because they thought they DID have that right! Through my personal knowledge of the family, I have become aware that she was abused & neglected, as was her mother- and now her children are suffering needlessly because she can "suffer just as long as he can" and "this time, he will change, he promised"! Why does she still have them? I don't know- maybe because the social workers are overworked and underpaid, maybe because they have no "real" evidence of abuse and neglect, maybe the court systems are too backed up, maybe there aren't enough foster homes to go around, and people only want to adopt "caucasion, healthy infants" (unless they are trying to make a public statement about their own generosity, in most cases)- you get the picture... What I do know is that these poor children will continue this pattern- the boy will grow up thinking it's okay to beat the **** out of women and the girl will grow up thinking it's okay to be beat. Then, they'll decide it is their "right" to reproduce. ALL parents should have to undergo parenting classes BEFORE they reproduce. They should be able to take care of themselves BEFORE they reproduce, as well as see to the needs of the children AFTER they reproduce. They should have the ability to care for them, love them, feed them, clothe them and put a roof over their heads. They should expect their governments (and society) to help them in circumstances beyond their control (death, injury, accidents & unforseen illnesses , job layoffs, etc), but they should not be allowed to take advantage of government welfare and assistance programs that are put in place for those who need them just because it is their "right" to have babies. There are generations of families on welfare (in the USA, in this case), for instance. WHY? And, most of all, WHY do I have to support them? When did that become MY responsibility?