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gGeorg
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Posts posted by gGeorg
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I really hope the guys at Obsidian are still following this.
Actually they are spending backer's money in a nearest pub, while seducing Katrina.
In a week or so, they check forum for a backers solution. :D
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The thing is that PoE1 combat was polished. While Deadfire combat is raw, and there are many little things that break our 'veteran' tactics from PoE1, making reality not matching expectations.
Yeah, I get that some of this is still being figured out in light that some of the foundational elements have changed dramatically, or at least they seem to have changed dramatically (health/endurance, AR, penetration). Everything affects everything.
For the longest time I kept trying to figure out why my characters needed a pen while fighting. Were they trying to sign a contract or something?
"No pen"?
WTF?
"I know they say the pen is mightier than the sword, but right now I need you to use your sword!"
Joe
I think those meesages are provisional, so they will be replaced by graphical icons, or animated icons.
I am Not fan of flying tex/ numbers too.
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Seems like a headache to get down though, and at this point I'd like them to make single weapon competitive outside of sabres in terms of damage or fix casting times than add more to the weapon styles.
There are grenades and bombs. More consumables generally. Request for DPS output leveling out with all other weapon style sounds wierd. I expect the weapon style is THE style.
Think out of box dude.
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One-handed Style should reduce recovery times for non-combat actions taken,
Examples:
- using a potion
- casting a spell
Idea is, you lose offensive ability (extra weapon, or 2-hander) OR defensive ability (shield) in exchange for having highly reduced recovery on all your other actions. Since you have a hand free, you can do those other actions more quickly.
If you're tanking, there's no way you're giving up a shield, and if you're doing damage, there's absolutely no way One-Handed Style can compete with 2-Hander / Dual-Wield power. It's just not going to happen, forget it.
Instead of trying to make One-Handed Style somehow comparable to damage dealing / tanking, give it something else, something unique. One hand free = 75% reduced recovery times across the board, for example.
That !
- quick access to quick slots (one free hand should quickly access an use items)
- disengage bonus defence
also for one-and-halfhand weapons like quarterstaff. Use staff as a cane, cast with a free hand or drink a potion.
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Good post, good tweaks.
Is it possible switch role of Hatchet and Sabre ?
In reality, Sabre is defensive weapon, Hatchet is damage focused.
Just switch numbers for 2 weapon models.
Sabre should dominate in defense not dmg output.
Quarterstaffs is typical defensive weapon too. acc bonus could be changed to defense bonus.
Please do not allow to equip silly dual wield like dual spears.
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I am curious if weapon deflection bonus (or modal bonus) is used against ranged attacks?
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Nice video and explanation of a shield role.
Dear devs,
would you please spend few minutes of your precious time to watch, then narrow shield role in the game?
It is sad when weapon stats and skills are totally of limits. Player could accept crazy things in games like DOS2 like "Captain America throwing boomerang shield", the game is about explosions and everyone is a caster so who cares about real battle. But I think that there is an expectation of a "serious approach" from PoE2.
Shield should be a tool for blocking hits but mos important, opening opponents guard and pin his moves. e.g. Shield user has accuracy up (open opponents guard so he can better hit), recovery low (shield play look like a cat&mouse play it take some time to use technique )
Shield FALLOW UP actions should be tied to the attack/defence roll. Than applied as result. Shield "bash" or any advanced attack MUST not work as regular infinite machine. Do not do mechanic like in PoE1 Shield as offhand club - Attack weapon, bash shield, attack weapon, bash shield, ... and so on until the end. Such mechanic is is soooo wrong.
Thanks a lot
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So I know we haven't had a chance to check out tier 8 or 9 abilities but the question is does it matter? Even if they are good enough to equalize or surpass a multi class we will still have spent at least 3/4 of the game under powered.
As a partial fix:
- all level 0 abilities should be halved in value when multi classing (I.e. soul whip adds 10% damage) (perhaps with an option to spend a point at level up to get the other half)
- Both single and multi class receive the same number of ability points at level up.
Optional fix.
Multiclass need to choose 0 level abilities. As they count to the total number of ability points. e.g. Select first class, 0 level are automatic, but for the second class you need to spend points for 0 level ability.
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Yeah well... Buddhist spells...
Point is: one can easily explain any currently allowed multiclass combo with the PoE lore - where believing in the gods and being an animist are no opposites (see Hiravias and ALL other Glanfathans who have an animistic and tribal tradition but still worship the gods - with priests and all), where a paladin like Pallegina hates the gods - because paladins are not Holy Warriors like in D&D but just orders of warriors that fanatically follow an ideal that has nothing to do with the gods per se.
The combos that are not explainable, like Priest of Eothas/Bleak Walker and such are already ruled out. So no need to reduce the choice of the player any further.
"animistic and tribal tradition" there is the difference of Fallower and True beliver. As you said, they have Animists leaders AND Priests. They are not the same person. Its Animist beliver (caster) and God Fallower. Or a Priest (caster) who comply animistic tradition, he celebrates animists holidays for example.
Hate gods is very strong emotion. That is the point. Palegina is strong god beliver, devoted. And she hate them. That is ok. As in PoE lore, the spells are not direct power cahnnel from god. Are not given as a service. Casting rather rise from the power of soul who belives in something.
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@gGeorg:
- PoE is a fantasy game, not a historical simulation
- Haches had the bonus for game balance reasons. Each weapon type has a special bonus. Some of these bonusses make as much or as little sense as the hatchet bonus, but I can live with that. Games will always have a certain level of abstraction.
- The romans were fighting in formation. Lots of soldiers with the same equipment moved forward as a wall of shields and swords or spears. Their effectiveness came from constant drill to fight as a team with standartized equipment.
In PoE2 you have up to 5 characters and not all of them will have a shield. To compare this with the roman army makes no sense. I do not know much about vikings.
Shields have a acc penalty because of game balance. You have to chose if you want more defense or offense.
Argument that its fantasy game is good to justify anything. Like polearms has no penalty in close quarter combat.... .
Hatches had the bonus for a reason to have some bonus greate argument. Then Sabre should be made a defensive weapon of choice rather than hatchet. that makes sense.
In formation or not, technigue of shield used as preparation for attack works regardless.
Shield has acc penalty (eg lower DPS) becouse of blance yes. Better would be, get lower DPS by lowering number of attacks, which comply reality better.
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I like the idea of considering shield as a weapon. Make it work like a hatchet sounds good. Just give it more deflection and less damage.
But no pistol/shield plz, that is so weird
I am sorry dude, but I am going to crush your happy world filled with rainbows and unicorns.
One handed axe is good for aggressive attacks, but definitely not defense.
Defensive weapon is light for response (most important parameter), balanced for control (hatchet with the weight at the one side does not fit at all), able to make straight blocks, have hand guard. e.g. short blade type weapons, one handed club type weapon ( tonfa ), two handed staffs of a size the man.
Grab a wood axe try to block a piece wood flying at you. You will see. :D You most probably get your wrist hurt yourself because of trying make a quick movement with heavy unbalanced hatchet.... . Its higher chance you might ride a unicorn than make a successful defense by hatchet.
Pistol and Shield was actually used in the real world. Late European knights armed with shield and war hammer (sword is useless when opponent is covered in armor) used as a side weapon a pistol. However, these were one shot (or two barrels at max) weapons. Loading few minutes so, definitely no loading in the middle of a combat. In the same time period, Japanese Ashigaru used Matchlocks guns (which is the game arquebus) and the tower shield.
I wish the PoE firearms has at least far longer loading times to somehow response reality.
- Interesting fact:
Viking style fighting with a shield, Vikings used shield for block and hold opponent's weapon, open the guard then make own attack, dis-balance opponent (do not misinterpret with bashing, rather make opponent off the rhythm). Also, get noticed Viking sword minimum handguard becouse is not usually used for defense. Try to block another blade with Viking sword, it slips by the your blade and cut your hand off. Similar usage was of Roman (Scutum) shield. Romans drill was push opponents weapon away and stab to the under belly. If weapon is not pushed away then do not stab. Check the size of Roman shield, its tower shield in game terms, this shield technique definitely NOT lower your chance to hit. It does exact opposite! Surprisingly, roman swords handguard is nearly non, because ... surprisingly it was not usually used to block.
) - In game terms,
shield makes your Accuracy rise up, same as recovery cose you carefully use your shield to open opponent first then and only then attack. Also the defense of your weapon is not so important. For the game purpose, shield user halved defense value of the weapon, maybe cut it at all (need to test it).
You see, the combat (active) role of a shield is the preparation of opponent for the attack. Not the actual attack. Actual attack comes by the main weapon. Therefore some mindless fast hacking is not the case. The "Viking" or "Roman" shield user should receive up deflection and accuracy but lower time of attacks. Then, in case of good combat performance FOLLOW UP action comes.
Any Follow up actions should be accessible for proficient users. Shield is correctly set as a weapon proficiency.
Shield actions could be:
Shield could add some bonus to follow up attacks in case of successful defense.
Shield could add a guaranteed hit to follow up attacks in case of extraordinary defense.
Shied could add an advanced follow up attacks (like bash, knock) in case of successful critical main weapon attack.
Regardless of Captain America movie, shield is defensive tool. Shield is support for the weapon, support for weapon techniques. Shield is not stand alone bashing or throwing weapon.
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Well - it's good for us that you are not the designer I'd say.
Besides that:
- Hiravias, Druid, follower of Wael
- Edér, Fighter, follower of Eothas
- Pallegina, Paladin, dislikes the gods
- Durance, Priest of Magran, VERY ambivalent attitude towards Magran
...PoE (with its classes, lore and characters) is obviously not like you think it is. Paladins are not necessarily god believers, but just zealous about a certain thing (read about Darcozzi Paladini). To practice animism doesn't mean you can't believe in the gods.
I can totally imagine a Christian + Muslim believer. Should be easy, it's the same god at last: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/i-am-both-muslim-and-christian/
Follower is very different from a dedicated person which has so strong believe that allows him do miracles, e.g. cast.
Lets shift to a more comfort area. I might be a beliver of Electronic and Fallower of PC. However, I am not a Bill Gates to make a mirracle. My belive is not strong enough.
Another example. There were a lot of Fallowers in Egypt but they needed a Moses to make water split. e.g. his strong belive allowed him cast spells.
Could you imagine a Moses crossclass to Budhism, to be able cast a bit of Budhist spells ?
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All that numbers tweaks sounds attactive , however, lets take a look at roots.
From the game world mechanic point of view.
Spells are cast based on religion or high education (which is a science based religion).
So the Priest casts his spells because of his faith. You might be a believer of one God ( rather one religion) but you cant believe in two or more religious systems. If you try to believe in 2 religious, you become an atheist very soon. e.g. your powers dissapear.
In our world, its hard to imagine a Cristian + Muslim believer right?
Same as in PoE word,
Paladin + Druid, >>> Animalism and Orthodox god believer in soul ?
That is simply nonsence.
From my point of view, spell casters could multi-class only with non-cast classes (physical).
Although physical might multi-class other physical,
e.g. warrior + ranger is ok.
Paladin + druid/wizard/... is wrong.
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I agree that 6s is horrendously slow.Let me reiterate that summoned weapons should be instant just in case this wasn't carved in stone already
But am still not sure how I do feel about it taking just 0s.
I was thinking about it taking either:
- 0.5s or
- 1.5s, provided there is also some new talent. Let's say Battlemaster Conjurer: summoned weapons take 1s less to conjure and refund the spellusage when they expire. (or even make them not use spellusages at all)
Reason for it being 0.5s instead of 0:
- it allows for showing animation
- it helps against accidental double-click
- it adds some opportunity cost, even if minor
Similar thing about wizard self-buffs, like: Mirrored Image, Wizard's Double, Llengrath's Displaced Image, Llengrath's Safeguard, Arcane Veil, etc.
If it was 0, chances are we would just go for subclassless wizards, and set AI Behaviour to use them all at once at the start of every fight.
[Examples:
And then having recovery modifiers indicated in spells tooltip, that would proporti8onally increase or decrease the final value of recovery time.
For example I think that interruption spells should be really fast, but since they have an utility component, means their dps should be lowered down a bit to compensate, either via base numbers or via longer recovery.
At the same time, the recovery of invocations and cipher powers could be lower than of equal spell, because they have a cost attached related to chants/focus build-up. Also chanting is stopped mid invocation recovery.
Creating time categories is good for many reasons. Mainly because readability, easy to learn.
Make 4 time categories then blur / fuzzy them by bunch of recovery modifier, that is missed opportunity.
Make it simple. I mean like SIMPLE.
4 time categories.
same cast time, same recovery, same total cast time for each category. Do not apply any sub category. Do not apply any special bonuses for certain spells. Keep it simple.
e.g. when you see a spell description slow, then you imminently know what does it means.
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It would be grate to start as single class, then adapt second class later.
Especially for new or casual players, setting of multi-class before the game actually started is nightmare.
Also I would like to see an easy system to level up MainCharacter.
Basically same features as auto-level-up for followers.
Level up then you have a chioce :
1. press a button to auto
2. do it yourself
(when you do it yourself, then you cant re-activate auto-leveling)
Auto leveling might be cool.
Make preselect a few most classic archetypes: Warrior/Wizard/Thief
then let player choose, the proven classic an auto, or his own build.
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I am fine with additive, multiplicative, v4 or whatever, BUT
for sake of sanity,
weapon stat(STR) formula uses multiplicative
spell stat(RES) formula uses multiplicative
OR
weapon stat(STR) formula uses additive
spell stat(RES) formula uses additive
Let base stats apply the same operator to get the dmg. Weapons, spells, skills, whatever, .... .
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Do Not mix things up like:
weapon stat(STR) formula uses multiplicative
spell stat(RES) formula uses additive
Creating a system where 1 point of Strength adds different volume of dmg than 1 point of Resolve is wrong by design.
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MaxQuest:
- should there be a few consistent spell categories, or it's ok to have a ton of them?
Well, I like your analyst work man. Here is an idea.
standardize spells/actions to few ranks of categories brings a bit turn based flavor, and readability.
lets have 4 cast time categories
lets set ratio, of each other category
1:1:2:3
I can also easy say, that I can cast 3 fast spells or 1 slow, that readability adds a level of combat tactical decision.
Time planing also supports idea of counter spell, anti magic counters. Now, the spell designer cant say what spell I could counter, because dont know if it is fast enough.
By this awesome thread https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86684-mechanics-the-big-attack-speed-conundrum/
Total time of a spell is significantly influenced by armor recovery effect. Which means, solid recover time part of a spells, can make professional casters wants to wear clothes. Yay!
The ratio for categories must be linear for both parts of spells, (Cast, Recover). Both parts are driven different stats (formulas), so we want to keep ratio. This way we prevent irregularities in clothes and base stats on different spell category for same person. Thanks to this, ratio 1:2:3 will work for everyone. Tought part is, say the total cast time for first category. Based on MaxQuest tab above, shortest animations are about 0,5 also "turn" lenght looks a bit longer than PoE1, so lets say 3,5s. <<< this is number to discus and test.
Rough idea of spell time categories:
natural (formerly known as instant)
cast 0,5s / 3,0s recover = 3,5s total
fast
cast 2,0s / 1,5s recover = 3,5s total
average
cast 4,0s / 3,0s recover = 7,0s total
slow
cast 6,0s / 4,5s recover = 10,5s total
Get noticed1: Natural category allows semi-instant response, useful for counters or defense spells. (Wizards double, Restore, Arcane Veil, .... ) It looks like the animations for these spells are already done for about 0,4 - 0,5s. So let it round up to 0,5s for all of them, I could just hope that adding an idle animation is doable. Also, we do comply with a slower game peace, so lets set Total cast time of Natural spells (formerly known as instant) same as the Total cast time of Fast category. e.g. 3,5 seconds is minimum cast time of any spell. Natural category is a bit creep, but it is as it is.
Get noticed2: Slow category 10,5s cast time looks horrible, but apply average bonus for Dex 15 so you get it faster than its now. (10s slowest spell)
Once the spell time ranks/ratios are set, then attach all the spells to them.
The last step, fine tune up a spell to fit total time consumption. (time to power ratio)
Similar time categories should work for skills/ abilities. That "turn-based" or "quantum" approach would make combat planing more readable for noobs and tactical for veteran players. Easy to learn, hard to master.
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MaxQuest :"current attack speed system is actually great. It is deep, and in current "ecosystem" (items/talents/buffs/encounters at hand) quite is balanced. There is no need to revamp it, just to tweak a little; update tooltips and overall make it more transparent to the player (perhaps even showing system-calculated action duration)"
Show the current system-calculated action duration for an
- equipped weapon in inventory, just next to Attack number.
- spells in battle UI tooltip. So a user might easy get info how long the partular spell will take at TOTAL. ( all the precast, aim, delay, cast, .... SUM them all and show conveniently where user need it. )
All that complexity is so complex that even players with 250hours do not understand what the stats are for.... . Make it clear please.
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Great ideas people.
Lot of your new improvements rise the game complexity.
Complexity is good to some point, where it helps to simulate a working world, however an abstract is required to keep it gamey. Fun, you know.
Huge amount of races, subraces, clasess, subclases, signleclases, multiclasess and their all variations is insane already.
Could I play this game as commoner, or do I need a master degree of Obsidian Order, like half year of intense course to be able go thru tutorial ?
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The old Jagged Alliance had a system.
- on the exit off the map, it shows all the items you have find. So you could decide, in comfort, what you want to take or not.
- Items left behind immediately poof to the void or are eaten by rustworms, anyway it prevents OCD: "come_back_for_all_that_stuff"
When you make sorting items by value, you could see what has value.
Trick is :
- only discovered items are shown
- value of items is determined by SKILL of the characters ( find gems - perhaps they are gems, or useless glass, find an painting - perhaps famous art, or useless draft) Here comes the Athletics/Streetwise/whatever knowledge handy. So, the true value of an item is get by the selling it. However some dumb, or sneaky merchant might buy a piece of glass for a price of piece of glass even its the diamond.
- inventory has limited capacity by space AND weight e.g. I could hold 100 dried herbs, I cant hold 100 plate armors.
Do not reduce number of enemies. I am a good guy, I want a blood-trail behind me.
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Just replace all the spear-wielding xaurips with unarmed monks, that'll solve the problem!
Seriously though, stacking seems like it'd fix the tedium involved in inventory management.
Each monk have sandals, tunic, gods symbol and a fish. What did you solve?
Rather than "cool database system for a back back" make it so, I do not want put all the crap in.
Solve the root not consequence.
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Hello,
its my first post here. I have played since EOB, DungoenMaster and so on, so some experience is there. :D
regarding loot.
- dead bodies need keep their stuff.
That must be preserved. Better polished, like Xaurip should need a fish to eat, so usualy I would expect to find a Xaurip spear, fish, xaurip sandals. Those things makes world live.
It is for a sake of reality feel. An RPG is a story in some strange but WORKING world. Instant transmutation of Xaurip spear into 5 gold on the Xaurip dead body is wrong decision by design.
- Heroes should be played as heroes. Not burglars and thief all day long. There should be a system to support a hero like decisions. Watch the old Conan movies (with Arnie) heroes break to the compound but took a small pack of gems. There are all the riches untouched. That should be the target of loot system. Let heroes FIND the treasure. Maby the Xaurip shaman's guard has a magic fish in his pocket. So Heroes need SKILL to Find. then SKILL to sell. System of generic hoards of loot selling for generic amount of money. That is a shame.
- weight and mobility factor : get armor to the back pack then fight. You loose becouse of tragic mobility and wrong weight distribution. Although armor properly fitted on the body has little effect on mobility. That should be noticed. All items equipped are counted as 1:5 weight.
- weight and fight factor : althou a
MightyStrenghty warrior could lift up a 500kg he cant fight with it. Weight should linear tone down combat readiness (speed, recovery, strength, res).- weight and space factor : its so-so possible to set one plate armor to a back pack. Its definitely not possible to fit there even 2 of them because of space. Items should get another property: Space.
so a hero might transport 20 ingots of pure iron of weight 200kg and space 10litres) but he can not transport 2 plate armors of 50kg and 100litres) (using a "one litre" as a handy space unit, because all we know how big are 2 beers right?)
) 
Beta Speed Mod
in Backer Beta Discussion
Posted · Edited by gGeorg
Married status grants seduce-proof affliction since when?