RedKnight

They already did, ages ago. The answer was pretty much no, you can mod it in yourself if you want it. Well, I guess I will be skipping this game then after all. Not going to support a roleplaying game that doesn't understand roleplaying. That is literally the dumbest reason to not play a game I've ever heard. I mean, I'd like a toggle for walking, but that can't possible be a dealbreaker. Don't stand so hard on your principles that you'll miss a good time man.. 1. Each to their own. It may not be a dealbreaker to you, but it sure is to me and many others. 2. And I said I won't be supporting it. I didn't say I won't play it. There is a difference between the two.

They already did, ages ago. The answer was pretty much no, you can mod it in yourself if you want it. Well, I guess I will be skipping this game then after all. Not going to support a roleplaying game that doesn't understand roleplaying.

Indeed. It's definitely worth reminding ourselves of this from time to time. And yet here you are - three noble keyboard warriors - worrying about what other people do with their time while dictating to uneducated masses what is and isn't important. I guess because in the ADHD era we live in - to pseudo-thinkers such as you three brilliant minds - taking 5 minutes to write something you care about obviously means you can't care about anything else at the same time, which then allows you to grandstand and virtue-signal how that is not something you do - ergo you are better. You know, it's not the disagreements that get me. The thing that actually gets my blood boiling is the sheer stupidity and feigned self-righteous quasi-intellectualism by people who are talking about things they have no clue about - all with a conviction that you would excpect from a completely clueless imbecile.

If you don't know neither programing nor how the PoE engine works, you are unqualified to make any factual statments on how hard it would be to implement something. So you dont have a leg to stand on. As for me, I do know something about programming and how the unity engine works. I am a modder and an amateur game designer myself, so when I tell you that this is literally 5 minutes of work, it just flies over your head. You don't know the first thing about logic, either. Case and point your assinine false dillemma fallacy where you just pull out of your ass how there are only 2 options in how to integrate the walking mechanic. Hell, I can mention 10 games from the top of my hat that all had different ways of implementing walk mechanics. So, what was that about logic again? Because you made a positive claim how most people would not use the feature, you assclown! I mean, LoL Yeah, that's another logical fallacy right there. It's called anecdotal fallacy. Yes, so what? Again, show me the data. From my personal experience, it is the other way around. I guess when you type into Google how to walk faster, you will get bunch of people complaining about the game being too slow, and when you type into Google how to toggle walk, you will get people like me. Wow! Imagine that! You just blew up my mind here, dude! Because double standards? Only if you assume that people will actually read the dialogues and not just quickly click through them and then read the quest log. I mean, I can also pull your stunt now and assert without a shred of evidence how most people will not see it, because they will be rushing through the game, since most people on the forums complain about the game being too slow and the dialogues being too long and windy, etc.. etc.. I don't believe that for a second, but this is quite literally your argument from above. My advice is, you don't know how different people with different preferences will play the game, so don't assume things out of your ass and give people an option to choose. But, NOOO! We cant have that! That would be too sensible. Give me a break, dude. Pfft... God... and then when I call people stupid they will say I am being rude. Dude, do you realize what you just said here?? You literally said that I can play PoE without a walk feature and enjoy the game just as everyone else, despite the fact that I already explained to you that this TO ME AND MANY OTHER people is game breaking. I mean, if I tell you that I hate mexican food, will you try to persuade me how I can enjoy mexican food as everyone else, despite me excplicitly saying that I damn hate it!! How thick do you have to be to not understand this simple concept? I never lashed out at anyone for believing that. I lashed out at people who were saying dumb **** like yourself... like trying to dictate to me and other people what we personally enjoy and do not enjoy. There is a big difference between the two. Personally I have no problem with people who disagree with me on valid grounds or even just express their own personal preferences, but I have 0 tolerance for people telling us what we do and do not enjoy when we already said quite adamantly what our preferences are. I would rather be called a moron and see a good argument for it than be exposed to utter garbage of that type. You too are now heading straight to my block list, because you are just not worth my time anymore. Your arguments are all... just dumb. Sorry if my honsty hurts your feelings.

Why can't we have both? Yeah, you are absolutely right that this is not a choice. It should never be a choice. Both of these things need to be in the game, because it will add to imerssion to certain types of players. Not everybody of course, but that can be said about any part of the game. And you know this based on what?... Look, just because you personally dont use a feature, doesn't mean that the same applies to everyone else. And again, there is not a high demand for colorblind mode, but the devs still made it, so why should this be treated any differently? There people here who already said that they will not be buying the game if Obsidian doesn't introduce this imerssion breaking feature - myself included. Most people commenting here want this option. On the Obsidian's YouTube video with the latest patch I made a comment about this topic and I recieved over 30 likes in less than 12 hours since posting it. It is at this time one of the most highlighted comments! The internet is filled with comments on various sites where people are searching for a way to fix this through mods in PoE1, Tyranny and even Torment. There are even reviews by users I have seen who complain because of this, etc. Now, we may both speculate on how much demand there is for it, but until you show me some polls, all you are doing is baseless speculation. I may say the opposite thing and be on an equal footing as you. I will now use your argument to illustrate the above point: "Well, I doubt people will use it (idle animations), since most people are in a constant hurry to do things, so most of the players would find it to be an unnecessary waste of time." See? We both can make unsubstianted claims.

And here is a pro tip for you: 1. Hold your lip really tight between your fingers. 2. Pull the lip over your head. 3. Swallow. 4. When your head comes out of your ass, read what people already said about your suggestion.

I appreciate you proving that you have no real points for the third time. You know what, I'll bite. I wasn't insulting you. I was calling you out on you pulling stuff out of your arse, which is a fact. I mean, if I am wrong, please show me a link to the poll where you can demonstrate that 90% of people DO NOT WANT this in the game. According to you. The very fact that there are whole threads all over the internet on this topic proves without a shadow of a doubt that to some people sprinting everywhere is immersion-breaking. How do we know that it's imerssion breaking to them? Well, they bloody said so. I mean, if I tell you that I like vanilla ice-cream, are you going to argue with me how vanilla ice-cream is not good on any reasonable level? Funny, that is exactly the response Obsidian got when they were asking to make these types of games Again, thank you for proving my point. You feel one way, me and many others feel different. And many people play for other reasons, imerssion being one of it. So, again.. what's your point? Oh, that's right, you don't have any. You just want to impose your way of playing on everyone else. I never said it was. But when your game already has numerous issues, why add to the pile of problems something that can be fixed with a few lines of code? But wasn't your whole argument that it's about quote: "...making decisions based on what most of your customers want"?? ... ... or are you trying to say that people who care about imerssion are not quote: "actual people"? You see... this is why I didn't want to respond to you. I thought you must be a troll. You are asking a loaded question. Whatever dude, I am done with you and this is my last response to you. You are not worth responding to. In fact, I refuse to believe anyone can be so thick, so I will just assume you are trolling.

Wow... look dude, you are not even worth responding to. Your attempts at arguments just makes me cringe.

Again, take it with Josh Sawyer. He is the one who said it wouldn't be a problem to implement at all. And we have PoE1 mod that already added toggle walk with no official tools, so it can't be that hard. Furthermore, as I already said, I also know a bit about coding and adding a walk option cannot cause any huge bugs. At worst it can cause problems in cutscenes where the game is switching from running to walking and vice versa, but a good coder will immediately take that into consideration and can easily create a line of code to deal with that. 1. 10% figure was taken out of Karkarov's ass. 2. Even if I grant you this number, 10% is still a huge number of people. Obsidian is probably aiming at an audience of around 1 million. 10% out of 1 mil. is still around 100.000 people. 3. I wasn't trying straw-man you. I was simply trying to make you look at this issue from a less selfish perspective, since most arguments against this feature boil down to: "I personally don't use it, so who cares about 10% of people who do." The point I was trying to make is that to us not having an option to walk is just as immersive breaking as it would be to you if there were no running animations. That's exactly my point. YOU, YOU, YOU'D like to see. Who gives a crap about others. Right? Well, lets just hope that one day you don't find yourself on the other side of the spectrum where you are the minority. And considering we had to resolve to Kicstarter to make these types of games happen, I am sure you know how that feels. I mean, wasn't the answer to our pleads from big publishers exactly that there was no interest in these types of games? Well, I guess the publishers were wrong, weren't they? Less interest doesn't equal to no interest.

If you understood business you would know 10% is insignificant. I was also exaggerating, truthfully if real data was measured it would probably be less than 5%. Look, I can pull stuff out of my ass too: "If they actually did a poll, they would realize that 78,33% of gamers want walking option."

Does it take literally no time to add a walk toggle to the game? No? Then it takes away time that could be spent on other features. It might not be a lot of time, but it's not no time. Well, if you consider 10-20 minutes of development time to be a problem, I don't know what to tell you. Since animations already exist, this is literally just a line of code that connects the walking command to a specific button. But don't take it from me - Josh Sawyer himself said it wouldn't be a problem to implement at all. I'll tell you what... considering how your logic works, might I suggest that next time Obsidian doesn't create running animations. Let the characters just statically move from point A to to point B without animations. After all, by your logic if it doesn't affect the gameplay and takes more than 1 minute of development time, it shouldn't be in the game. While they are at it, they can also decide to not do idle animations, because that too takes away from REAL development time and it doesn't add anything to the game. Oh, fog and running rivers... yeah.. that doesn't affect the core gameplay, so better not waste time on that either.

It doesn\t take away from other development. You are factually wrong.

That is exactly the point. IF people show interest in it Obsidian might put it in. Because it would make it worth investment and cluttering UI with. People come and say "nah, we don't care" not with an intention of ruining your fun. I did it with an intention to let you know that I don't believe that the feature is worth implimenting. This is not a petition, this is a place for a discusion. Still, good luck with "toggle walking" crusade:-) Oh dont get me wrong. I wasn't talking about you. As far as you are concerned you already said you are not against it, so if you want to participate in a discussion by saying how you are not against it, but dont care for the feature either way, I am fine with that.

1. 10% is still a considerable amount, so thanks for making my point, although I doubt that was your intention. I mean, let's say that around a million people buy the game, 10% is still over 100.000 people. 2. Josh Sawyer said it would be no problem to implement it. Also, the walking animations already exist (we have seen them in the trailers). Also, the modders already did it in POE1 mod, so how much of a resource drain is it? So, no dude... you are just objectively wrong here. 3. This is not about wanting to move slower. This is about immersion! Sneaking in taverns or libraries with crouched animation is even less imerssive than running. 4. Dont bet on things you have no knowledge of. Doing a study on this would cost more money than actually implementing it. Take it from a guy that actually knows something about coding. LoL 5. Its an option, so what is it to you if they implement it or not?

No, Numenera wouldn't be any less clunky if you added an option to walk, but it would make it more imerssive for people who think that sprinting in libriaries and taverns looks retarded. When you already have a clunky game with mixed reviews, you would think that you don't need to add imerssion to the pile of problems on top of everything else - especially considering how simple it is to introduce this tiny option, but unfortunately some people just don't seem to get it. As for you personally not using it, nor seeing any benefit from it, well... there are multiple threads on this topic full of people who would use it and see a great benefit from it. Besides, it is an option, so nobody is forcing you to use it. Look, I am glad that you are not against the feature, but quite frankly I am baffled by people who come to comment only to say how they personally think something is useless or a waste of time. I mean, you say that shooters benefit from walking option. Well, people are different and I personally never use walking in shooters, because it just makes me a slow-moving target, but if something is an option... I would never feel the need to come and comment how I dont use it. That is because, obviously if people ask for something, it is important to THEM. I mean, imagine if the devs removed something that you personally use quite a lot, the devs are willing to put it in if people show interest and then a bunch of people come and start commenting how it is a useless, annoying, waste of time feature just because they personally don't use it. Wouldn't you find that at least a bit annoying? All we ask for is an option to turn the walking on - if walking is useless to you, don't turn it on but please dont ruin the fun for the rest of us. This is not about gameplay mechanics, it is an imerssion completely optional feature that is very important to people who care about imerssion.

Ok, I just came to add my own voice on this topic. So far I have bought pretty much every game with BG/Fallout/PST/Arcanum design values, which I guess makes me a longtime Obsidian fan and which is important to remember for my final statement. Anyway, I will try to take a bit different approach from what was already said here before, so please bare with me. I am very disturbed with the current trend in Obsidian and certain InXile games (*cough* Numenera *cough*) where the general design consensus among the developers seems to be how the walk option is something that is not needed, because "only a few people demand it". Here are few things to consider in regards to that: 1. Most people today belong to what I like to call the ADHD generation and I thought the whole point of this RPG renaissance was to revive the genre not just for us old geezers, but for the newer generation who don't know any better. This coincidently also means introducing them to concepts that they rarely see in modern games. I mean, if what people demand is the reason why you make these games, then why not make your character lightning fast? Or better yet, why not remove any running between locations and just introduce teleporting between points of interest?... Hopefuly, you wont take these sarcastic remarks seriously, but the point I am trying to make is that not everything should be looked through the lense of convenience and addition to gameplay. Imerssion is a standard part of roleplaying and it should not be lost just because people don't demand it? Surely, you see the benefits of having an OPTION to actually roleplay in a game that wants to revive the concept of a true roleplaying game! 2. Has it crossed Josh Sawyer's mind that perhaps people weren't demanding it, because they just assumed it will be a part of the game? I mean, even Call of Duty has a walk option, so surely the company with such an amazing RPG pedigree will not forget to add this into their games! Surely!! 3. Just because people are not complaining, doesn't mean that something doesn't need fixing! Think about presentation of your game in terms of how your engine works. Everytime you start a dialogue, the game pauses. If the dialogue starts while you are sprinting somewhere (given that sprinting everywhere is the only option currently), how do you think this looks to a potential reviewer who may or may not care about immersion? You can't tell me it doesn't look absolutely retarded, even if you don't give a **** about imerssion! And considering how much time you spend in dialogues, this means you will be seeing your character immitating Usain bolt while being paused in mid dialogue quite often. Now yes, a reviewer might brush this off as "not a big issue", but how can you be sure that this won't affect his review in at least 1% or 2%? And if a reviewer cares anything about imerssion and is like me, the fact that I am forced to sprint even in taverns and libriaries will probably cost you even more! Which brings me to point 3. 4. It was stated many times before that this is a minor issue that most people will just ignore, even if it bothers them. Hell, I bought both PoE and Tyranny, despite having a HUGE issue with the lack of this particular feature. However, if your general attitude as a game developer is "well, it's good enough", might I suggest that sooner or later this mentality will backfire at least in regards to some people, and when your audiance is already "niche" - you should be fighting for every potential customer! Now, if Josh doesn't care about reviews and thinks it doesn't matter if a game gets an 8 or 7.5, great! Good for him, but I sincerly hope other people in the dev team have more common sense than that, especially since creating a walk option really is no task at all! 5. We all assume the game will be great and that it will receive universal praise, but look at what happened to Torment: Tides of Numenera. The reviews are very mixed, especially from the user side and many people have opted for not buying the game because of the mixed reviews. As I mentioned before, I am a HUGE fan of these types of games, but I too have opted not to buy the game, simply because the reviews are very mixed. However, important part to know here is that the straw that broke the camel's back was in fact the lack of walking mechanic! Please note how I am not saying that I didn't support it just because of lack of 1 feature. The biggest part for my reservation for Numenera comes from mixed reviews. If the reviews from the user base were great, I would probably pick it up regardless of the walk option. So while the mixed reviews made me think about it, the lack of walking mechanics drove me over the line to be persuaded not to support the game for now. 6. When I couldnt walk in PoE1 I was not happy about it, but hey... you can't always get what you want. When it happened in Tyranny, I was annoyed, but whatever. When it happened in Numenera, it was established as a trend and it started to annoy me very very much. Now, I see that PoE2 follows the same path and to be quite honest, it is infuriating. I mean, the big heads is a feature, but imerssion is just off the scope for Obsidian! Seriously?!?! At this point, this is becoming such an established trend that I have to draw the line somewhere and am willing to fight tooth and nail for it. I am not saying I will not support PoE2, but I certainly am considering all options, and I know I am not the only one. I have 3 friends who have already said they won't be buying the game just out of protest, and there was at least one post here that said pretty much the same. The bottom line is this. If a longtime fan of these types of games is considering all options and has in fact already opted out from buying Numenera, what do you think a less devoted person will do if imerssion is of ANY importance to them? You said it's easy to implement - in fact, I know it is easy to implement since I know a few things about game design - being a Morrowind modder and amateur game designer myself. Hell, I could probably learn to mod it myself, but it disturbs me greatly that we even have to have this discussion. This should be a part of every RPG by default. Just make it happen, or at the very least give us a console command so that we can activate it through cheats or somethning. Best regards!