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Brdavs
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Posts posted by Brdavs
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Um, click on them heh?
Yea they are... vesti=news. 3 links to 3 video clips with footage we mostly allready saw on CNN and the likes, these just have some interviews added. Eglish description on top, russian on bottom.
Bot or no, it links to a "relevant" place shall we say... legit.
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Nope. Like I said, this has nothing to do with being saviours but flexing their military might... too bad, that if they keep it up, they're only spiting themselves. Does Russia really want the Cold War round 2? Don't they know what happened back then? Did they forget? Do they need another reminder? Their threats of a 'strategical premeptive nuclear strike' on Poland sure sound slike they want another Cold war. I guess they want their power to be even further eroded. *shrug*
Oh the fanboyism, it hurts m3h eyes lol.
In other news presidents Eduard Kokoity of South Ossetia and Sergei Bagapsh of Abkhazia adressed the Duma as it unanimously called Medvedev to recognise their independance, as did the Federation Council.
Promptly following were calls from US and Europe for Medvedev to ignore the votes in his decision. Funny that considering the biggest "sin" of Russia in our eyes is the too authorative rule of their presidents, even when the us system is little better on paper. Frown uppon it when it suits you and change tune to ask for it when it doesnt. Who are elected representatives anyways, all FSB bought &/or intimidated into it. lol.
Anyone surprised?
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And now for something completely related and yet funny, at the same time:
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=50890
Russia Should Return U.S. Humvees, Pentagon Spokesman SaysBy John J. Kruzel
American Forces Press Service
WASHINGTON, Aug. 21, 2008
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Hey I just find this whole level of discussion funny lol.
oops, I did it again.
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I should qute sorces? Does common sense not apply any longer?
K, sources for what? Improving Economic situation of Russia and genuine not "cheated/intimidated" widespread support for Putin&Medvedev? Allready did that a couple pages back. Of history of the region and of the ossetian people, south ossetian oblast etc. etc.? You can google sout ossetia, hit wikipedia or even pick up a book or two cant you not heh? We`re gonna go the true armchair expert method of pointing fingers to "iternets" sites that present "our" case "better" heh?
But heck, I`ll play your game. Even if your reasoning is hillarious. Pitching me BBC as a "unbiased source" is frankly laughable given the Russo-UK track record as of late lulz. As far as democratic free press standards working for you, imma just say "DA-Notice" and leave it at that lulz.
Thoe, frankly, I fail to see anything I ever said disputed there. Things are just "coloured" and "handpicked" to the UK pallete of the perception of russia, otherwise it seems a fine insight. But I like to diversify my sources before forming an oppinion. And by that I dont meand reading BBC and CNN diversification heh. I recommend the same to anyone.
And I`m gonna elevate myself and pitch something better than the BBC counterpart RussiaToday. 2 commentaries on the affair, approaching it more "globaly". 1st one written 3 weeks prior to the war predicting a Russo American bustup in the region as a logical continuation of the events unfolding. 2nd one from roughly a week ago delving deeper into the conflict at hand. You can read the pedigree of the comentators at the bottom.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=9614
http://athensnews.com/opinion/commentary/2...a-huge-mistake/
I can go get my pravda link if you insist to those standards thoe, lol.
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Oh, I`m sorry, I was not aware "credentials" were needed to convey (non-mainstream) oppinions in this fine establishment.
@Walsingham: ofcourse a political solution not a military one is more civilized and prefered. But since the political solution was not reached in the past 18 years and atm georgia still insists on not allowing them seceede, having the backing of the otherwise big fans of selfdetermination US and somewhat lukewarm spport of the EU, tell me, what "political solution" have the ossetians to look forward to heh? They`ll be reinstated the autonomy the nationalists stripped off them in 92 and they`ll live happly ever after with the people that didnt give much toss about diplomacy while they were the ones doing the rocketing, but promptly changed the tune when Russians started rocketing them in term?Political solutions take time, even generations. Look at Scotland and England. I can hardly suggest a peace deal knowing so little about the country, but geographically the case looks strong to be part of Georgia. What's the alternative? be part of a country with only one two lane road joining it (a Greater Ossetia)? Be a republic of only 70,000 people? That might work in Europe, where people want a posh tax haven, but I hardly think that is an option. In any case, my point stands. Better jaw jaw than war war, as Churchill said.
I'd also like some backup to the notion that the South Ossetians/Russians were totally blameless in the last few years. I've read articles on the BBC suggesting shelling into Georgia before the attack. Sounds to me like both sides were cracking away at each other.
"Goegrapically the case looks strong to be part of Georgia". You`re having a laugh right? What is this, 19th century US and we`re drawing borders in a bid to create the "perfect square" state lol? the 70k populus managed for 18odd years as de facto independant, did they not? after decades/centuries of mutual killing, e. cleansing & crimes that make (balkans look like a sandbox compared to that part of the world) its also a bit of a stretch to have them kiss and make up at this point, is it not? Thoe the sco-eng "political" solution might work. Have Saakashvili kick the bucket and have Kokoity take over Georgia. Problem solved. Hopefully the practice will be as succesfull as it was in feudal times. lol. And I`m the one that should provide credentials heh?
As far as issuing of passports go... ossetians never held or wanted to hold georgian passports after the collapse of the soviet union. Whats the alternative, as W. puts it? Have 70k "noncitizens" of the world heh?
If your`re worried about it not being economically fiesable, fret not. Both Bosni&Herzegovina & Kosovo (and several other enteties) are completley reliant on international funding for their existance. And my guess is Russia would be more than willing to pick up the tab for independant Ossetia. For the juristic second before it would become part of the Russian Federation that is hehe...
Ukraine... That is a whole different and even more complex issue. But one quite unlikely to escalate. Unless Kiev decides to purge Sevastopol of its 75% russian population that is
Finally, I`d just like to leave you lads with a little quote:
"For us in Russia communism is a dead dog. For many people in the West, it is still a living lion."
-Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Volorun you *might* wanna think twice of what you type cos you`re embaressing yourself with your statements lol. Russia was part of the USSR, it didn`t change its name lolz. And today its Russian federation with some Republics including Russia lol.
And lets not forget Georgia went Serbia over Ossetians.
As far as poland radar instalations being a priority target for a preemptive nuclear strike and russian "buthurt" go... COMPLAN 8022 anyone?
ROFL
you`re giving canadians the bad name they have m8 lolz. Those crazy militants in washington repeatedly raise the arms race bar (this plan, withdrawl from several cold war agreements on weapons proliferation, balistic missle defense on border etc. etc. etc.) and you guys are *still* so blinded that they can pass the natural responses as "coldwar butthurt" and "soviet imperial tendencies" LMAO. Sheep the lot of you HAHAHAHA. Go die for king and country against the red threath if you will, I prefer to use my *brain* ROFLMAO.
Seems to me its washington being the one buhurt, but not from the CW, from Kremlin running circles around them in the oil business lol.
@Walsingham: ofcourse a political solution not a military one is more civilized and prefered. But since the political solution was not reached in the past 18 years and atm georgia still insists on not allowing them seceede, having the backing of the otherwise big fans of selfdetermination US and somewhat lukewarm spport of the EU, tell me, what "political solution" have the ossetians to look forward to heh? They`ll be reinstated the autonomy the nationalists stripped off them in 92 and they`ll live happly ever after with the people that didnt give much toss about diplomacy while they were the ones doing the rocketing, but promptly changed the tune when Russians started rocketing them in term?
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So if I understand you all correctly you're saying Georgia has to just put up with being invaded because you want a counterweight to the United States?
So if I understand you correctly Ossetians and Abkhazians should put up with being forced at gunpoint to live with the nationalistic "georgia to georgians" georgians just so Nato gets a foothold in the region Russia considers its vital iterest zone and we our interest perifery (and georgia wont get into nato with 2, count them 2, ethnic regions unofficialy independant yet unrecognized by the freedome equality etc loving world)?
Howcome the albanians didn`t have to "put up" with the serbs? Oh, camp bondsteel. Howcome Iraqis, Afghanistanis, Palestinians, Ira... you know what, nvm.
lol
Not at all. I'm not for a moment saying the Ossetians and Abkhazians have to put up with being occupied. My suggestion would be a Northern Ireland style political engagement. A process you can hardly claim we Brits are two-faced or uncommitted about this close to the anniversary of Enniskillen. Whereas by your rationale Britain would be perfectly within its rights to roll tanks within a few miles of Dublin because it's in our 'zone of interest'.
hohohoho, you sure you want to open up THAT can of worms lol? plenty of butter on *them* heads hehehe
And I assume the NI style arrangement would mean Abkhazia and Ossetia being a part of the Russian federation, that being the most natural connections(Ireland=georgia, NI=O&A and UK=RUS)? Perhaps Moscow would grant them autonomy they lost in georgia, only suspending it on occasions, like London does heh...
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So if I understand you all correctly you're saying Georgia has to just put up with being invaded because you want a counterweight to the United States?
So if I understand you correctly Ossetians and Abkhazians should put up with being forced at gunpoint to live with the nationalistic "georgia to georgians" georgians just so Nato gets a foothold in the region Russia considers its vital iterest zone and we our interest perifery (and georgia wont get into nato with 2, count them 2, ethnic regions unofficialy independant yet unrecognized by the freedome equality etc loving world)?
Howcome the albanians didn`t have to "put up" with the serbs? Oh, camp bondsteel. Howcome Iraqis, Afghanistanis, Palestinians, Ira... you know what, nvm.
lol
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You missunderstand me thinks. Being excluded from the *post invasion* Iraq deals. The SH deals are the writeoffs of old in anticipation of further deals I was reffering to. Deals that now aint happening as a result of the global game lol. Everything I said happened in the last year tops.
Btw they sold them out by vetoing the invasion? Or by buying from Sadam... like I dunno, everyone, mainly west heh? Interesting concept lol...
Here is another cherry on the oil cake: one of the major factors for the Iraq invasion was rumored to be Sadams intent to no longer deal for oil in USD but in euros... being a large exporter, that`d hit USD a "wee bit" hehe.
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when all they`re doing is "emulation" of our realpolitik.
"our"? I thought you said you were Eastern European, not Russian.
"our" Since I`m EU. Russia is the one doing the emulation
But to put things into perspective of our practical world as opposed to make believe ideological confrontations...
Putting aside what russians took as grave insults from the US over the last decade or so (In july (g8 summit) for instance, Bush refered to Medvedev as a "smart fellow" but sent connie to Prague to finalise the balistic defence agreement just a day before that summit... Which for the russians ammounted to a clear message that Medvedev is an idiot and the US could not care less what russia opposes or what it thinks of its international standing heh...)
Putting that aside, it is mostly about energy policy.
It has turned out that Russia under Medvedev runned a very lively and most of all effective foreign energy policy. In july medvedev visited azarbejdzan, turkmensitan & kazahstan and managed to secure new deals musceling out western (eu&us) competitors and got assurances turkmenistani and kazahstani oil wont circumvent russian soil in tranzition to the west.
What really made a difference thoe was Gazprom (russian state oil company) making huge headways into africa. US convinced Gadafi to open up Libia for foreign investment and energy deals setting up the western companies for fat deals. However, it was Gazprom that secured a deal for any and all future energents making their way out of Libia, to mainly EU and US lol. Russians are also expanding their buisiness into Niger and coming to agreement with Algeria about joint marketing of natural gas in europe.
All the US&EU effort that went into especially Libia evaporated and Americans flipped their lid so to speak lol. They`ve excluded Russian companies from oil dealings in Iraq - russia previosly writing off a massive Iraqi state debt to them in anticipation of securing siad oil deals - cheeky and painful hit. Gazprom responded by a trip top Iran, securing major longterm strategic agreements about Iraninan oil/gas exports. Coincidentally (lol?) Washington promptly changed the tune and sent a message to Teheran that "washington is sworn to diplomacy" heh. Taking the battle to "eurazia" in response was really to be expected. Just not so litterary as to really start a war...
So all in all, Russians outplayed the US both in diplomacy and on the market. In one of the most sensitive issues on the planet. And an american "democratic" satelite starts the first war in the Caucasus in the 21st century.
Coincidance?
You be the judge heh...
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Poland being the biggest thorn in EU operations side heh...
@wals: well if you`re going back to the 18th century for validation of your fobia I think we should forbid the US of holding standing armies. Cos I dont exactly remember their expansions doing many favours for the natives at the time, if you discount multiple counts of genocide that is.
And in the past ossetians and georgians voluntarily flocked to the Russian state cos it provided protection against the Turks and the Persians. So much for the "only opressors" theory heh.
btw, ever heard of Patarkatsishvili? Died this year, georgian opposition oligarch. Criticised Saakashvili imensly. Died of hear attack in London and his 12bn dollar assets got confiscated by the georgian government. Free the honest georgian democracy from russian totalitarism indeed lol.
I seriosuly think people are overestemating the fundamental difference in seeing this "cold war revival". Comunism is dead. Both as a econiomic and political system, bothh in Russia and in China. They`re playing "our" game now. Playing it well at that. The clishe of a dictaturship opressed russian and chinaman is just that at this point, a clishe. So China has a single party system and in Russia you have 1 "unnaturlly" popular option. Heck the US, champion of democracy, runs a 2 party presidential sytem of supreme executive power as of late lol. In all areas their societies have liberated to close to our standard.
There is no fundamental clash of civilizations anymore... Just one of partial interests. Perpetuating te commie/totalitarin threath is manipulation. And I for one ain`t buying it heh. Doesnt mean anything Russia does is right, but then again, who is the West to moralise at this point, when all they`re doing is "emulation" of our realpolitik.
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It's not surprising in the least, considering that by the sound of things you'll be one of the kind 5th columnists waving the T72 onwards.
I've just read the report you link to, and it is an economic report, not a political one, and I find their political analysis facile at best. Certainly there has been economic growth. But to impute this to mean the country is politically sound is just weird. China has economic growth.
Putin has behaved in a hyper-aggressive fashion, both domestically and externally since he came into office. Or had you forgotten Chechnya II? Litvinenko? The crushing of the free press? The hounding of Kasparov?
To me it sounds like more of this dangerous bollocks which has everyone siding with absolutely anyone so long as they are anti-American. I'm not fundamentalist pro-American. But I know that a hyper-aggressive regime in Russia has me worried. Poland is part of NATO, as are we, which means if Putin fancies a trot around Eastern Europe I have to ship over there and get shot at.
You`ve got to be kiddin me.
Your the one talking youre worried cos ppl are taking sides (anti-american)? for christs sake could you be any more rusofobic lol? And yes, thou arth a fundamentalistic pro-american, most on these boards can pritty much gather that heh.
"Hyper agressive" domestic fasion lol? The economc report indicates putin does not need to rig elections to win them wals. Twas the uber democratic (puppet) saakashvili that declared martial law and cracked down on opposition and media last year and not Putin lulz. Just cos we dont fancy the results doesnt mean Kasparov lost cos he has been opressed to the ground and KGB killed off all his voters. Russian people actually love their current government, for the silly reasons in the above mentioned report. Chechnya? Arent we all about teritorial soveirgnity? What did Georgia just try to pull if not Chechnya III heh? Hyper agressive externally? Name me one action Russia has taken beyond its borders before this thats not "alleged" to be whacking off of a mi6 agent or a western ushered oligarchs exile. Unlike the defensive nato that invaded 2 countries by now. If I were NATO (which I actually am), I`d be more worried about being shipped off to Iran at this point.
And the remark about me being the 5th column I resent. If I am that youre an angloamerican imperialistic neocon that has issues whith someone else joining the big stakes game again. A fine one you are to point out omnious signals from the big bad russia we should be panicking about when you selfproclaimed you never even heard of the region or the political situation in ossetia/abkhazia/georgia before. War. Gods way to teach brits and yanks geography&history eh? Then we can all moralise together once we skimmed trough wikipedia.
For crist sake, its not about being pro or anti anything. Its about common friggin sense. We`ve been expanding with puppet regiemes into an area Russia considers itsown "middle east". A balkan like area of ethnic friction at that. Excersizing 0 understanding for the region and relations there, just throwing support and arms behind a NY lawyer we picked up to performe a coup and is now (was) considering making himself king of georgia lol. All to build nato bases all around russia. Throw in a balistic shield and a forced "sui generis" in international law when it suits us here and there.
Wth did we think would happen? At some point the reinvigorated Russians were about to signal we`ve been fecking about their borders for long enough. Saakashvili, being the genious that he is in trying to emulate Miloševič (we actually support???), gave a perfect chance for that signal. They want to be treated as a power again, not as a carved up yeltsin time intoxicated puppet. So feck me, but after the past 10 years of a certian hegemony in which I`ve seen western democracies "degrade" into no better practices they frown uppon when others practice them, I`m rooting for the underdog lol. We`re all about the free market are we not. Well if I remember my theory well, a monopole is bad.
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http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/106151.pdf
Yanks themselves seem to be of a different oppinion, my man. The Putin popularity has good and actual basis. Russian elections are funnyly enough very likely a better reflection of the actual supprt than the so touted georgian ones were. Take a read of the stuff happened last november there. Very very little of it democratic. Yet it is not Georgias democratic standards that we`re worried about. As long as theyre on our side.
As far as supporting all their (alleged) actions go... I do as much as I support extrajudicial executions and torture in gitmo and leaders of "soveirgin nations" hanging on the end of a rope. Wont even lower myself to mention the stuff that went down in the 90s. + I`m sure BP is more than making up for its losses in Iraq lol.
West has been the champion of realpolitik for a long time. And I for one wont be going sanctimonious cos someomne else found the balls to do the same and whats best for their interest or atleast their citizens abroad, copying what ve`ve been doing for decades.
You should prolly find sources of information and viewpoints other than CNN and lately very objective BBC lol. Its got you all hyped up over the "red threath" lol.
Edit: no I dont live in Russia. But in central europe. Factinating that someone from there isnt worried by the reemerging evil of the Soviet Union, isnt it lol?
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Man o man the british media seems to be carrying a big chip on its shoulder in regards to russia, as far as my limited browsing tells you... It`s saying quite something when the feel is you`re getting a more "balanced" story from CNN lol.
Must be all those exiled oligarchs and BP issues heh...
Or it might have something to do with the fact that Putin appears to murder his domestic critics, even on our soil. But I'm sure you'll tell me his KGB thing was 'just a phase all young men go through'?
Well perhaps the issue is in the West setting up and backing oligarch during the drunken yeltsin years that ran the country into the ground in the first place... or is it a coincidance that these people turned russia around as soon as they`ve thrown those oligarchs out (or as we that put them there would say "politically prosecuted them" heh). You cant deny this "KGB" has had a veery impressive run as far as an average russian & country go. Mainly at our expense.
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blo...27684#more27684
interesting blog from the other side of the fence... I payed speciall attention to the parts about post soviet collapss to the "putin era"... At some places the guys paranoia rivals that of the USA BUT its a good insight into the state of mind and the percieved reasons for it.
Explains a lot if you`re willing to keep a bit of an opened mind.
Yeah, Putin looks like he wants the country, Russia, to return to the "good old days" of the Cold War. pinch.gifAnd what is wrong with that if I may ask? Fat load of good having a power monopoly has done for the world (outside siad monopoly) heh... Or are we actually starting to buy that we got a "god riven right to rule" lol?
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Man o man the british media seems to be carrying a big chip on its shoulder in regards to russia, as far as my limited browsing tells you... It`s saying quite something when the feel is you`re getting a more "balanced" story from CNN lol.
Must be all those exiled oligarchs and BP issues heh...
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Ye its over.
An no noone would interveene lol. Puppet regiemes were never worth it be4 and nothing has changed.
But out of curiosity... just how would in your funny little mind an intervention look like lol? I mean Russia is not exactly some 3rd world country we (as in west) ussualy pick fights with...
Russia knew exactly when to stop. Who needs to occupy georgia when the current regieme is very likely to topple in the aftermath... Saakashvili wasnt popular to start with (after the last november crackdown on media/opposition), buzz is he lost loads of remaining fans allready with this + rumours are that the losses in army personell are in (multiple) 4 didgits, which could be the last nail in his political coffin...
Well thats the way the puppet heads roll I guess... Back to square one for the US in that region heh. Chin up "we" still have Pakistan... for now.
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Hilarious to see that a thread about a war between Russia and Georgie has its share of US bashing. LOL
Only logical considering Georgias has one of those "democratic" heavily supported & mentored to come to power regiemes that jump through hoops heh...
So... Russai *does* believe in regime change based on force? K, then. I guess all their whining about Iraq was bull? Yup, it's as I thought. Yet, people seem to be shrugging their shoulders over this while theyw ere crying blooody murder when the US and others were doing it? L0LSo since you`ve allways believed in the prectice why cry bloody murder now when Russians are following suit? lol? See it works perfectly the same both ways... Round and round and round it goes, where it stops nobody knows.
But seriously...
This has now turned to a full scale plickwaving contest between Russia and the U.S. Its about a oil rich/transition area, about NATO encircling Russia, about heavily western backed regiemes being "instated" in the areas Russia considers strategically paramount to its "national security", about testing the Moscows/Medvedevs resolve etc. In the end both the georgians and ossetians got shafted by the dancing bear and the eagle respectivly lol. But what else is new? Life aint hollywood.
Now personally, I rank US claims of Russians working on a "forcible regieme change" in the same category as I do Russian claims of an attempted "genocide". Loads of air, grain of trouth.
Wheres I have no doubt that the Georgians wouldnt "mind" all of the ossetians packing up and "migrating" over the Russian border thus eliminating the pesky minority seeking independance problem (apparently thats what they attempted in the first place lol) I doubt they`d be constructing furnaces and gas chambers heh...
Likewise I have no doubt whatsoever Russia would`t "mind" seeing Saakashvili washed away by his expedition and the fallback of it(in favour of something more "THIS user friendly" if you catch my drift), not at all ulikely since it`d be hard to replicate the martial law crackdown on oposition/media like during the last protests under all this internationall scrutiny). But I seriously doubt their "plan of attack" (pun intended heh) is to occupy the whole of Georgia Iraq style to do so.
About the vital pipeline... Imvho, thoe I am no expert heh, if Russians wanted to take it out they would have a looong time ago.
But that would have stung west in a bad way. Its faaar more productive just dropping a few bombs a couple of klicks near - it is enough to let the west know their hand is on their only "from Russia independant" pipeline and that they better not "mess" with them nomore cos the oxygen supply can be cut just by squeezing this "esophagus" heh.
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Well, you have a good point about being secessionist for just as long. On teh other hand, recognition for this region as a sovereign state, and hence able to choose is rather sparse. Even bonkers places like North Korea haven't agreed.
I think you're being needlessly jingoistic about taking things in the 'back yard' 'lying down'. It's only the back yard according to an excessively aggressive legacy from Ivan the Terrible/Joe Stalin. I'd like to think we could move on from that, unless we want to go back to the old days of Cold War, and I don't. Or, to put it another way, if i were a Georgian, why the hell should I have to kowtow to Russia?
Well I suppose you have to view the "backyard" comments with the same mindset you do when there is talk of renewed Russian bases on Cuba or fresh tank divizions on our side of the Urals... good old interest zones and "too close for comfort" bases heh...
In the end this may have started with georgians forcibly "subduing" a 18 year independant region that it has practically no ties with... but it has escalated into a full cold war style proxy showdown heh... US & Izrael heavily involved in the equiping training and buildup of material. As it ended up for the "anexation" of Ossetia. US will also do a favour and airlift the 2000 georgian troops home asap heh... ;P
And afterall there is oil and pipelines in them regions heh. Could be that the stakes are much higher now. Will be interesting to see what happens. My bet for now is still on Russia pushing them back to the unrecognized "borders" and then forcing in a status quo of old...
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and most of the people living there have Russian passports
Yes, because Russia has been aggressively campaigning to get them to sign up for Russian passports. During the days of the USSR, the communist government encouraged ethnic Russians to go and settle in the other republics in order to dilute nationalist tendencies. This meant that when the USSR broke up, lots of other republics were left with large ethnic Russian minorities. So the new Russian tactic appears to be:
1. Find a region with lots of ethnic Russians.
2. Encourage them all to apply for Russian passports, thus making them Russia's problem.
3. Encourage them to stir up trouble with their government (demanding independence etc.)
4. When their own government tries to keep order, send in the tanks.
This could be applied in a number of former Soviet republics. They might not go for Latvia next, as that's already in NATO, but Ukraine is a possibility.
Look at the whole story not just 1 part of a sentance.
Ossetians are not ethnic russians. theyre ossetians. I think 10% of the ossetian population is russian.
Their region got artificially divided and landed in georgia to promote "soviet brotherly bonding" or whatever. They never held georgian passports. As soon as SU collapsed they fought bitterly to cesede on theirown. With russian/UN intervention the conflict was "frozen". Up untill when Kosovo was granted independace cos it was the "right thing to do".
Georgia trying to keep order? Ossetia has been DEFACTO INDEPENDANT FOR 18 years. What you call "restoring order" on the ground looks like a invasion into a neighboring country. The freaking leveled their capital killing 1k plus cililians ffs. How is that justifiable? Ossetians are throwing words like ethnic cleansing around and are flocking to Northen Ossetia (in Russia)... And I`m supposed to root for Saakashvili to restore "constitutional order"? Has the world gone mad?
Now, who is gonna look them in the eye and say they have no right to theirown country/future in Russian federation when they`ve been fighting for just as long and more bitterly and have far greater historical & ethnical claim to that region/path and its "noninclusion" into Georgia than Kosovo ever had? The freedome loving and will of the people respecting West? Are we REALLY gonna be that hypocritical so soon?
@Walsingham: define friendly heh... If you do it by "not taking lying down of the west trying to mucsle it out of its own backyard using even such agressive and insane moves by its pro-W regimes" I guess you`re right... Maybe its time for us to back off a bit instead of expecting them to take it lying down heh? Tides have turned a bit afterall...
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You guys need to expand your infromation intake from BBC&CNN for a broader picture. It`s really a bit more complex. A lot actually.
South Ossetia I ethnically totaly seperate from main Georgia (ossetians =/= georgians), it`s a part of the ossetian region that was artifitialy "given" to georgian republic by Stalin during the sovet union era. Uppon the collapse of the SU they delclared independance and seeked admisson into the russian federation (the ossetians being the historical greates Russian allies in the region - North ossetia part of the federation today). Noone in the world recognised them but after bitter (balkan like ethnic) fighting they achieved de-facto indepandance (like Abkhazia) wich they`ve been "enyoing" for the past near 20 years. In 06 they again held a referendum to be independad and it suceeded yet it was deemed "unofficial".
90% of them hold russian passports cos they wont have georgian ones and russians have been there ever since early 90s as peacekeepers.
Now on the day of the start of the olympics georgian troops moved into the region to "restore constitutional order" and "eliminate the criminal regime". Equiped & trained by the west - since Saakashvili (leader of a far right nationalistic "lets regain lost teritories" policy) is practically a US marionette put in place a after a coup. Big friend of the west = loads of CNN coverage lol.
Russian peacekepers with UN mandate got killed and the "rebel" capital got leveled and taken, 1300-1400 civilians said to be dead in the georgian attacks. At wich point the russian tanks rolled into ossetia and are pushing back/engaging georgians.
My take on this? I live in the balkans where another nation and another Saakashvili saw fit to forcibly "reaffirm the constitutional order" over political and ethnical entities seeking independance. So I for one have ZERO symathy with the georgians.
And I`m ashamed that EU would back such a regieme as far as to even seek NATO membership. But hey, to encircle russia with bases I guess selling your sole is acceptable. From US am I used to such "changes of mind".
Btw this is what every1 was warning agains when kosove gained independance. Its the same in principle, only roles are reversed. This is how things would look if Serbia had the backing and ear of washington and not moscow, like Georgia now has.
Guess all that BS about ineliable rights of peoples and "what is right" was just that, BS. You aint getting jack if you aint on "our" team. If Ossetia was like Kosovo and was pro-western instead of pro-russian they would have been independant by now. With Nato bases there. Its a dirty dirty world, innit?
I do love how us west have discovered overnight a newfound love for the Security Council.
Know whats funny? When georgians moved into Ossetia Russia called a emergency SC meeting, drafting a resolution to demand from both parties they ceese hostilities. Blocked by US & UK. Once the Russians moved in to spank georgians back West is pitching the SAME type resolution to SC. Funny how things change in 24h. But now Russia doesnt seem fit to pass it lol. I wonder how bitter is ones own medicine lol?
So tone down on the Soviet fobia and get informed.
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Ya well whoever has the followup is royally fecked heh. You allways strive to top the previous one but man o man you aint gonna top that. Its a real shame cos London would easly top any previous ceremonies but I cant see anyone with the potential to put on a grander "show" tbh. Any1 trying to get close would turn out too "flashy" and "cheap" but china can pull it off cos thats sort of their history & culture. Imperial China grand style thousands of syncronised performers. Good freaking bet heh. Twas a brilliant sight.
And the stadium itself is simply jawdropping. Cant give anything but tips of the hat.
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Can I just ask by wich standards does McCain have the repore of being the more suitable candidate as far as foreign relations and policy go heh?
Cos these last comments on Russia are a barrel of laughs... I was amazed with the level of patronising (of both G8 and Russia) in that speach, thats not high level politics material lol. I mean ok, Russia aint as free/just as the EU (then again neither is US lol) but the man is burning his vital bridges well before even reaching them heh... In the off chance he makes the whitehouse he`ll be living in a world when the west has to deal with both Russia and China more and more as an equal partners & players... He however seems to still be stuck in the 90s heh...
I mean you dont have to like them but heck since youre dealing with them and they pritty much have or will have your nuts in a grinder over energents and foreign debt not totally pissing them off would be a good idea. Heck its what all of us have had to do for the past few decades, now you`re about to find out how it feels first hand lol
Only thing rivaling my amazement at this point is the mere shrug Moscow returned... Not even giving him the time of day. Well I`m betting that "KGB autocracy" forgives but never forgets heh...
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I dont think an unveilng of a new model caravan cuts into the sales profit of a sporting car. Cant see how a MMO project most likely slated for an arrival a couple of years down the line would hurt the sales of SP games allmost here... It aint direct competition genre wise and I seriosly doubt some1 is gonna put off buying TFU in the light of this news...
I can envision it being kept hush hush on account of other MMOs in existance/development by these companies thoe
Russia in Georgia
in Way Off-Topic
Posted
The deed is done, Russia recognises the independant S Ossetia and Abkhazia. London the first in the line to "blast" a "direct violation of numerous U.N. Security Council resolutions regarding Georgia's territorial integrity". Will of the people, 2 decades of struggle & a western ushered precedens be dammned.
Anyone surprised?
lol