G0-T0 meets HK-47 (alternate)

[Jediphile]

For example, Kreia infers in the game that the exile's lost connection to the force is due to something the masters have done to the exile.

She says that it's unlikely the Force would be lost to the Exile unless another factor was involved beside the horrors of the Mandalorian Wars, which is true, in fact she lost her connection to the Force because of her talent with Force-bonding, that's why she had to cut herself off from the Force, only Kreia could not tell you that.

 

Kreia (to exile): "If my suspicions are correct, perhaps the damage the Jedi Council did was not as permanent as they thought. It is not an easy thing, to cut one off from the Force. {Challenging}What did you believe? That you suddenly lost your connection with the Force without reason?"

 

Kreia could have told the exile what she preferred, but said this instead, clearly inferring that the masters were responsible without actually saying so. Does she lie here? Maybe not, but she certainly manipulates the exile into thinking something she knows isn't true.

 

Still, if you question both Kreia and T3, there's no way you can tell where the Ebon Hawk went at any time, and you can't explain how Kreia wound up with it.

 

Because there is no such explanation, and we can even question if Kreia wound up with the Ebon Hawk at all. After all, not being a pilot she cannot fly it, nor can she plot hyperjumps without T3, so who really has wound up with it? Even if Kreia is there, she is a passenger at best.

 

I'm more inclined to buy what we're told, most of it, and make sense out of it, rather than use my imagination to conjure up some totally arbitrary explanation which hardly finds any base in the game.

 

Always doubt Kreia. Always. If Kreia told me water was wet, I'd check with three other people before I believed her. As for T3, he knows EVERYTHING throughout the game, but says nothing, except to admit that he has manipulated the exile into the circumstances of the game. That doesn't give him much credibility. He was programmed to do that, but that still means he can lie. There is reason to doubt him. Look at the treatment he gives HK-47, when he begins poking around the business of the navi-computer, for example. What would be the point of there if it merely leads to Malachor V?

 

 

"Everyone on the Ebon Hawk was dead, sir... we're starting autopsies within the hour."

 

[Knights&Darths]

You can find little contradictions everywhere. The Medical Officer on the Harbinger reports dead bodies on the Ebon Hawk, are you going to question that? As for Kreia's recollection of the facts, I assumed it was just her manner of talking, like Bastila saying that it was she who saved Revan from the Vulkars. It was clearly the other way around, but if you think that Kreia was unconscious, then awaken and found the Harbinger "crippled, drifting in space" she still speaks the truth, from her point of view. She did board the vessel, in her own way, after all she could not tell the captain "Hi, I'm Kreia, former Dark Lord of the Sith, on a mission to deafen the galaxy to the Force." She avoided giving explanations by playing dead.

[Jediphile]

You can find little contradictions everywhere. The Medical Officer on the Harbinger reports dead bodies on the Ebon Hawk, are you going to question that? As for Kreia's recollection of the facts, I assumed it was just her manner of talking, like Bastila saying that it was she who saved Revan from the Vulkars. It was clearly the other way around, but if you think that Kreia was unconscious, then awaken and found the Harbinger "crippled, drifting in space" she still speaks the truth, from her point of view. She did board the vessel, in her own way, after all she could not tell the captain "Hi, I'm Kreia, former Dark Lord of the Sith, on a mission to deafen the galaxy to the Force." She avoided giving explanations by playing dead.

 

I agree with the statement that Kreia could not have presented herself as such. But since you conclude that, I take it you acknowledge that the Harbinger crew did not find and assume her dead only to have her suddenly revive.

 

And then there's her line, "When we intercepted the Harbinger, it was crippled, drifting in space. It was a simple matter to board the vessel and rescue you." Now, I understand that you interpret that to mean that she came from the Ebon Hawk, but do you acknowledge the possibility that I can be interpreted in another way and that she arrived some other way. I'm not saying that she definitely did not arrive on the Ebon Hawk, just that we don't actually know and that another way for Kreia to enter the scene is thus possible.

 

And yes, there were dead bodies on the Ebon Hawk, only we don't know who they were, because it's never explained in the game. We can't even tell from the tutorial, since the bodies on the Ebon Hawk were probably moved to the infirmary for autopsies on the Harbinger, and the bodies on the Ebon Hawk (except for Kreia's) in the tutorial is more likely those of survivors from the Harbinger trying to flee the Sith assassins only to be killed when Sion fired upon the escaping ship.

[Knights&Darths]

I take it you acknowledge that the Harbinger crew did not find and assume her dead only to have her suddenly revive.

I didn't get you. You mean they had to make sure by cutting her head off? I assumed things on the Harbinger happened the same as on Peragus: she was in the morgue, then awakened. By then the Harbinger had been crippled, but she found the Exile and T3 and escaped the Sith, who fired on the Ebon Hawk as they made the jump to hyperspace.

do you acknowledge the possibility that I can be interpreted in another way and that she arrived some other way.

I don't think it's possible, because she says she was with T3 when they boarded the Harbinger, and T3 was on the Ebon Hawk. She speaks plural, and T3 acknowledges that.

[Jediphile]

I take it you acknowledge that the Harbinger crew did not find and assume her dead only to have her suddenly revive.

I didn't get you. You mean they had to make sure by cutting her head off? I assumed things on the Harbinger happened the same as on Peragus: she was in the morgue, then awakened. By then the Harbinger had been crippled, but she found the Exile and T3 and escaped the Sith, who fired on the Ebon Hawk as they made the jump to hyperspace.

 

It's a possible scenario, but it cannot be established Kreia arrived on the Ebon Hawk, and so we cannot know and any scenario must by defintion be an interpretation based on our observations and conclusions.

 

do you acknowledge the possibility that I can be interpreted in another way and that she arrived some other way.

I don't think it's possible, because she says she was with T3 when they boarded the Harbinger, and T3 was on the Ebon Hawk. She speaks plural, and T3 acknowledges that.

 

Actually, she says, "When we intercepted the Harbinger, it was crippled, drifting in space. It was a simple matter to board the vessel and rescue you." She does not mention T3, which means she could be speaking of someone else, and T3's bleeps are not translated or interpreted to confirm what she says in that cutscene. HK-50 also does not say there were any survivors on the Ebon Hawk, so no help there.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Jediphile

[Knights&Darths]

It's a possible scenario, but it cannot be established Kreia arrived on the Ebon Hawk, and so we cannot know and any scenario must by defintion be an interpretation based on our observations and conclusions.

We're not on Wookieepedia, my friend. This is what I think we were supposed to conclude.

She does not mention T3, which means she could be speaking of someone else

Who, Atton? When she says that, there is only you, her, Atton and T3, the only possible "we" is she and T3.

[Jediphile]

It's a possible scenario, but it cannot be established Kreia arrived on the Ebon Hawk, and so we cannot know and any scenario must by defintion be an interpretation based on our observations and conclusions.

We're not on Wookieepedia, my friend. This is what I think we were supposed to conclude.

 

You have a right to your opinion, but that's the point - since we cannot establish as a matter of fact that Kreia arrived on the Ebon Hawk, you have have no basis for that conclusion and it remains speculative. That we're not on Wookieepedia, is precisely why I've quoted from the game consistently (though I don't see the connection - even Wookieepedia don't allow fan speculation on the pages).

 

She does not mention T3, which means she could be speaking of someone else

Who, Atton? When she says that, there is only you, her, Atton and T3, the only possible "we" is she and T3.

 

So does that mean she must mean T3 out of all beings in the universe? No, she doesn't mean Atton, because we know he didn't arrive at that time. Some have suggested Atton might be the "contact" Coorta mentions coming to pick up the exile in order to sell the "last jedi" to the Exchange. Not an impossible thesis, though there is obviously no support for it at all. But with Kreia's noted disgust with droids or "machines", as she calls them, I sincerely doubt she would use the word "us" to describe T3 and herself. Besides, we know from the Harbinger holologs that there were bodies on the Ebon Hawk when it was found, so if Kreia was indeed on the ship, it's far more likely those people (whoever there) are who she was referring to. But I doubt she arrived on the Ebon Hawk. There is no evidence of it except her own statements, which seem to not quite fit with what we otherwise know of the ship before it was brought aboard the Harbinger.

[Knights&Darths]

On Wookieepedia you can't state as facts events which are hinted in source material, however strongly implied, if they don't have any blinking neon clear cut assertion to speak of. I meant that, this being no encyclopedia, it's kind of uptight of you to be this concerned about utterly indisputable proof. I still think that's the way it went, but I'm not trying to convince anyone, neither am I unwilling to question my own conclusions, but I can't seem to agree with you on this. Where I come from, if you say "we", you mean one who's right there with you, or one whom you did previously speak of.