Dev thoughts on the Nin Revolution Controller

[kumquatq3]

Did you laugh at first? Are you still laughing? Are you impressed? Excited? etc...

 

Now that your making Next-Gen console games, I curious how you feel about this.

[Loof]

Not that I'm a developer... but I thought it was a nice and refreshing new idea to try. One of the big limitations of consoles in my opinion has always been the controllers and the positioning sesnsativity might make some types of games that used to be a big bother more doable (for instance first person and RTS games). Depending on how detailed and fast the positioning system is of course...

[Jedi Master Dakari]

I think it looks more like a remote than a controller...and that I might never get the hang of it.

 

It looks too uncomfortable to work with. Then again, I'll just wait till it comes out, where I can try it, before making too much of an assesment about it.

[mkreku]

It would rule if they managed to make Fight Night Round 3 use that controller and make it intuitive. Then all we need is a face mask that gives you a blow to the head everytime you get hit

[kumquatq3]

It would rule if they managed to make Fight Night Round 3 use that controller and make it intuitive. Then all we need is a face mask that gives you a blow to the head everytime you get hit

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You would need two controllers. They showed a "we could do this with the controller" demo that showed a guy druming with two of them.

[Krookie]

Personally, I think that this thing won't turn out for the better. I mean of course the system with sell, but I know that I'm not buying it. They should have just stuck with the GC controllers.

[EnderAndrew]

I have a flight-stick I bought AGES ago that already features sensors so that I can move it in air to "point" which direction I want to go.

 

It uses ball bearings in the stick, rather than two sensors I have to put on my TV.

 

Nintendo has already back-pedaled on their "free downloading of old games" to now say the Revolution will allow you to download games, but the service may cost you, and the games will most definately cost you, and not all the games will be available.

 

No hi-def support, won't play DVDs without a seperate kit, weak hardware, and only a gimmick as a selling point?

 

I'm really hard pressed to see any good reason to even discuss the Revolution.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"I'm really hard pressed to see any good reason to even discuss the Revolution."

 

On the other hard, there are good reasons to discuss the other next gen consoles. Such as them being pretty much the same as the generation before, only more powerful.

 

Excuse me while I fail to contain my excitement: woo.

[EnderAndrew]

On the other hard, there are good reasons to discuss the other next gen consoles. Such as them being pretty much the same as the generation before, only more powerful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really?

 

Which generation had support for two tvs at once, let alone two 1080p images at once?

 

Which generation was pushing next-gen DVD formats before standard players were even common?

 

Which generation featured wireless controllers?

 

And since power is an issue, which generation launched with more power than home PCs?

 

When the XBox launched, it wasn't much more than a Celeron PC. The PS3 and XBox 360 are launching with more power than gaming PCs, but also with unique features.

 

Again, you avoid my point and make a flippant remark that has little relevance.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Which generation had support for two tvs at once, let alone two 1080p images at once?

 

Which generation was pushing next-gen DVD formats before standard players were even common?"

 

I'm sure those two will revolutionize gameplay in some significant manner. You know, in the same way it changed the way I play games when I got a better graphics card and could play games on higher resolution.

 

"Which generation featured wireless controllers?"

 

The current one.

 

"And since power is an issue, which generation launched with more power than home PCs?

 

When the XBox launched, it wasn't much more than a Celeron PC. The PS3 and XBox 360 are launching with more power than gaming PCs, but also with unique features."

 

When PSOne launched, it pretty much beat the snot out of most PCs. Then we got 3D Accelerators. Also, "unique features"?

[EnderAndrew]

If you think that Blue-Ray storage and multicore processing isn't huge, then I don't know what to tell you. In order to push boundaries, you need the tools to push them.

 

Nintendo could still release their gimmick controllers and publish their games on the PS3 and 360 if they wanted.

 

The Revolution has a gimmick and that is it.

 

They promise a Revolution in how games are played, but they haven't delivered on that. Most of their gimmicks have busted over the years, and very few panned out.

 

The Gamecube had piss-poor market share, and very few exclusive titles that were must own.

 

Nintendo promised Mario 128 on the console, and couldn't even deliver that in 4 years, and now MAYBE it will be on the Revolution.

 

And the current generation did not feature wireless controllers. They are aftermarket, and not a core feature.

 

They are an actual feature in the next generation.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"If you think that Blue-Ray storage and multicore processing isn't huge, then I don't know what to tell you. In order to push boundaries, you need the tools to push them."

 

No, I don't see the benefits of blu-ray outside of HD movies. And I certainly don't see using technology that no programmer has sufficient experience in as a huge thing, either.

 

And in the end, it's still going to amount to "neater particle FX". There is the benefit of being able to create games with more realistic physics, but I don't see as something that's going to be utilized much nor do I feel that your standard, ordinary gamepad will be a sufficient device to interact with such a game.

 

"The Revolution has a gimmick and that is it."

 

Quite a lot of Nintendo's "gimmicks" tend to get copied by their competitors when the next generation comes around.

 

And frankly, if you don't have the imagination to see what could be done with their latest "gimmick", I pity you.

 

"The Gamecube had piss-poor market share, and very few exclusive titles that were must own."

 

Yeah, well, didn't stop Nintendo from making just about as much money as Sony.

[EnderAndrew]

No, I don't see the benefits of blu-ray outside of HD movies. And I certainly don't see using technology that no programmer has sufficient experience in as a huge thing, either.

Really?

 

When CD technology game out, it allowed for games to use video footage, cinematics, digital audio, voice acting, etc. Storage has often held back would be innovations in gaming. Without larger mediums for storage, we can't push for more content in the game. Who knows what new forms of content we can push when storage isn't an issue at all?

And in the end, it's still going to amount to "neater particle FX". There is the benefit of being able to create games with more realistic physics, but I don't see as something that's going to be utilized much nor do I feel that your standard, ordinary gamepad will be a sufficient device to interact with such a game.

So wireless controls, hard drives, Live service, voice controlled games, wireless headsets, microcontent updates, community driven marketplaces for mods, dual-TV support, etc. doesn't count?

 

Those change the way we play games.

 

The Revolution however hasn't fufilled that promise considering they haven't mentioned a single game to feature their new technology which is optional when playing Revolution games.

Quite a lot of Nintendo's "gimmicks" tend to get copied by their competitors when the next generation comes around.

Such as the U-Force, SNES Mouse, Virtual Boy, Robo, SuperScope 6, PowerGlove, etc. etc.

 

Yep, I can see your point.

And frankly, if you don't have the imagination to see what could be done with their latest "gimmick", I pity you.

No, as I have noted, their innovation is something I've already owned for 10 years. That's not innovation if you ask me.

Yeah, well, didn't stop Nintendo from making just about as much money as Sony.

You seriously have no clue what you're talking about. Market share and profit are two differnet things.

 

A good chunk of Nintendo's profits come from the handheld market, which is a seperate beast. In the home console market, they are an also-ran at best. Their market share is in fact pathetic. If no one owns their console, then they aren't changing the way anyone plays games.

 

If they want to make games for their established franchises, and push gimmick controllers, so be it. That is their niche. However, they don't need to release a console specifically for that. They could go the way of Sega, and I've demonstated that everyone, Nintendo included profits from that.

 

You are being flippant, but worse, you don't know what you're talking about.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Really?

 

When CD technology game out, it allowed for games to use video footage, cinematics, digital audio, voice acting, etc. Storage has often held back would be innovations in gaming. Without larger mediums for storage, we can't push for more content in the game. Who knows what new forms of content we can push when storage isn't an issue at all?"

 

So, in short, you have no idea what to do with that storage space, but you think it's good to have it just in case someone figures out what to do with it?

 

"So wireless controls, hard drives, Live service, voice controlled games, wireless headsets, microcontent updates, community driven marketplaces for mods, dual-TV support, etc. doesn't count?

 

Those change the way we play games."

 

Wireless controls won't and we had the option this gen already.

 

Optional hard drives won't.

 

Nintendo has it's equivelant of Live, doesn't it?

 

Voice controlled games do, but only if the tech concerning it has made some serious leaps since the last time I looked into it.

 

I don't see how having wireless headsets would change how I play a game at all from just having a headset that is not wireless.

 

Content updates we had with XBox last time, did it change much? I don't think so. And again, doesn't Nintendo now have a download service too? Also, nothing new to a PC gamer.

 

Mods are nothing new to a PC gamer.

 

Dual TV support? Yeah, I bet that gets tons of use because there's a huge amount of people who have enough TVs, preferably HDTVs, to spare that they can hook up two to a console.

 

"Such as the U-Force, SNES Mouse, Virtual Boy, Robo, SuperScope 6, PowerGlove, etc. etc.

 

Yep, I can see your point."

 

D-pad, shoulder buttons, analogue sticks, trigger buttons, Rumble Pack, Wavebird.

 

Granted, Force Feedback not wirelessness wasn't invented by Nintendo but they were the ones who first brought it to consoles. And then got copied.

 

"No, as I have noted, their innovation is something I've already owned for 10 years. That's not innovation if you ask me."

 

It doesn't sound to me that your joystick thing is comparable to the Revolution controller, sorry.

 

"Market share and profit are two differnet things."

 

Indeed they are. It seems to me that Nintendo has found the perfect niche for its products and is catering for it instead of trying to dominate the whole market in a foolish gamble.

 

"They could go the way of Sega, and I've demonstated that everyone, Nintendo included profits from that."

 

I'm sure the people at Nintendo know their business better than you do, actually. They make huge profits, after all.

 

"You are being flippant, but worse, you don't know what you're talking about."

 

See, this is why I flamed you in the MDK argument. You're throwing pebbles at me. I don't appreciate that. Either we play nice or we flame the hell out of eachother. But don't throw those ****ing pebbles at me.

[mkreku]

There's nothing new to the PS3 or the Xbox 360. As usual Nintendo brings innovation while the big boys battle over who has more power. I won't say power is completely useless, but I think we've come to a point where more power does no longer give developers a clear advantage, as it used to (when moving from 2D to 3D). Physics is really the only feature where I can see any major improvement.

 

Innovation is more exciting than raw power. I'm glad that Nintendo keep trying to bring something new to the gaming scene. I, personally, see a TON of opportunities to create unique games with those controllers, especially if Nintendo are smart enough to ship the console with two of them in a package. And bringing up Nintendo's past failures is nothing short of ignorant. Of course the innovators are going to have failures! Trying something new is the most risky business there is. Just look at the gaming market of today: fps's are 13 a dozen, because they're proven technology and brings nothing new to the market. Nothing new = less risk. Most companies are chicken ****, Nintendo are not, and even though I generally don't like Nintendo's games (I hate cutesy games) I respect them for their balls.

 

But the dumbest opinion award still goes to this remark:

 

"If you think that Blue-Ray storage and multicore processing isn't huge, then I don't know what to tell you."

 

Who is stupid enough to believe that Blu-Eay is going to make the games we play better?? More space = higher definition in movies/pictures (textures) or more movies/pictures. Great gameplay is not dependant on media space. I love new technology as much as the next man, but it's plain stupid to think it will affect anything major in the games we play.

[EnderAndrew]

So, in short, you have no idea what to do with that storage space, but you think it's good to have it just in case someone figures out what to do with it?

Historically, increases in storage mediums have driven innovation. Nintendo says that hardware is unimportant. What does that tell you?

 

If you can't put 2 and 2 together, I'm only going to tell you it is 4 so many times before I consider you hopeless. I also need to repeat myself since you flat-out ignore what I actually say.

 

"So wireless controls, hard drives, Live service, voice controlled games, wireless headsets, microcontent updates, community driven marketplaces for mods, dual-TV support, etc. doesn't count?

 

Those change the way we play games.

 

You claim that wireless controls don't change how we play. You are wrong. Any gamer can tell you that they have to sit within cord's length of their console. If you are playing with 3 of your buddies across two couches, both spread out a good distance from your big screen, those cord lengths don't cut it.

 

There isn't a single console on the market that offered first-party wirless controllers. That is something new to the next generation. Your flat denail of facts is noted, again. Your willful obtuse nature and disregard for my actual posts makes you come across as a troll.

Optional hard drives won't.

Sony hasn't decided fully on the HDD issue, and in case you missed it, most retailers are forcing you to order the 360 with the HDD. It isn't really optional if it is the only way you can purchase the system. In the HDD comes preinstalled in the console when you purchase it, you can list the HDD as a feature of the console.

 

Again, you are willfully obtuse.

Nintendo has it's equivelant of Live, doesn't it?

No, it has one online game. It has nothing like Live, let alone the new Live service launching for the 360. There are no friends lists, spectator modes, downloadable levels, microcontent, community driven content, community commerce, gamer profiles with bragging rights, etc.

 

You want to talk about changing the way we play games?

 

Live has changed the way games are played by ushering in a new medium for online play, with headsets, etc. The spectator mode allows you to step into a game and watch other players playing. There are virtual fantasy sports leagues where you can put together a fantasy team based on a Madden league as opposed to actual NFL stats. These are changes to the way we play games.

 

Your blind fanboi attitudes on this matter are quite clear however. Neither Sony nor Microsoft offer a single feature other than graphics, even though I REPEATEDLY list them.

Voice controlled games do, but only if the tech concerning it has made some serious leaps since the last time I looked into it.

Again, let me know when you want to start talking about things you understand. Both the PS2 and XBox have had games that actively feature voice-activated technology for 2 years.

I don't see how having wireless headsets would change how I play a game at all from just having a headset that is not wireless.

Being able to move about a room while playing? Isn't that a change in how you play the game?

Content updates we had with XBox last time, did it change much? I don't think so. And again, doesn't Nintendo now have a download service too? Also, nothing new to a PC gamer.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. With the 360 and the new Live service, I could make a mod for Oblvion and sell it on Live. You can purchase microcontent, and pay say 99 cents to purchase one track for a racing game. Live is also adding spectator mode.

 

Nintendo has nothing at all like Live. You can't download content for their games. Where would you download it considering Gamecube doesn't offer a HDD option?

Mods are nothing new to a PC gamer.

The PC marketplace has had downloadable content, and online play, but never organized and marketed in the way Live has.

Dual TV support? Yeah, I bet that gets tons of use because there's a huge amount of people who have enough TVs, preferably HDTVs, to spare that they can hook up two to a console.

Actually most Americans have multiple TVs in their home.

D-pad, shoulder buttons, analogue sticks, trigger buttons, Rumble Pack, Wavebird.

There is a difference between a standard controller feature that all games must use, and an optional gimmick. I thought I made that clear, but perhaps I must REPEAT THAT as well a few more times.

 

I also love that you discount what Sony and M$ have, saying that it has been available on the PC, but then ignore when Nintendo followed PC innovations such as with analog controls, trigger buttons, etc.

 

It doesn't sound to me that your joystick thing is comparable to the Revolution controller, sorry.

Really? How. I've seen the Revolution controller demo. It is a pointer. You move it in the air, and it moves the pointer. With my flight-stick, you move it in the air, and it moves your ship. Clearly, Nintendo invented this technology!

Indeed they are. It seems to me that Nintendo has found the perfect niche for its products and is catering for it instead of trying to dominate the whole market in a foolish gamble.

There is a reason most developers publish for the PS2, because the PS2 is in the most homes. When you release a game on the platform that has the greatest market share, you increase your profits. In Nintendo released their games on a console that had a greater market share, they would increase their profits, and the consumers would profit not only from not having to buy a third console, but also having games with improved graphical capabilities.

 

DO YOU NEED ME TO REPEAT MYSELF AGAIN, VOLOURN?

See, this is why I flamed you in the MDK argument. You're throwing pebbles at me. I don't appreciate that. Either we play nice or we flame the hell out of eachother. But don't throw those ****ing pebbles at me.

In the MDK arguement, you stated an absolute fact, except it wasn't true. You said that you knew for a fact that I was wrong, and you entered a flamefest over nothing.

 

You trolled and flamed. In the end, I had evidence on my side, and you had flames on yours.

 

Thanks for reminding me of your earlier behavior.

 

I might just have to consider adding you to my ignore list as well.

[mkreku]

You trolled and flamed.  In the end, I had evidence on my side, and you had flames on yours.

I followed that thread. You are lying. You did not have any "evidence" on your side.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"I might just have to consider adding you to my ignore list as well."

 

OH NOES, ENDER IS GOING TO IGNORE ME! WHAT WILL I DO? MY WORLD IS RUUUUIIIIN'D!

[EnderAndrew]

You trolled and flamed.  In the end, I had evidence on my side, and you had flames on yours.

I followed that thread. You are lying. You did not have any "evidence" on your side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Only the definition of MDK.

 

But that doesn't count for anything when answering the question, "what does MDK stand for?"

[mkreku]

Only the definition of MDK.

 

But that doesn't count for anything when answering the question, "what does MDK stand for?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The argument you two had in that thread was about what MDK (the game's acronym) really stands for. Don't try twisting it into sounding like you had an argument about what the general acronym MDK stands for.

 

EnderWiggin believes MDK stands for "Murder, Death, Kill".

Sarjahurmaaja believes it does not.

 

The only thing that's certain is that the developers never told anyone what it stands for. That's the only "evidence" in the matter. The rest is assumptions and probability, and everyone knows how much evidence lies in those two words.

[EnderAndrew]

The argument you two had in that thread was about what MDK (the game's acronym) really stands for.

 

EnderWiggin believes MDK stands for "Murder, Death, Kill".

Sarjahurmaaja believes it does not.

 

The only thing that's certain is that the developers never told anyone what it stands for. That's the only "evidence" in the matter. The rest is assumptions and probability, and everyone knows how much evidence lies in those two words.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I stated that the devs never officially said one way or another, however the press, fans, etc. all declared that it meant Murder, Death, Kill. I said that was the best answer we have.

 

Sarjahurmaaja declared it to be definitively wrong. He called me out and thusly the burden of proof was on him to prove me wrong. Nothing that I said was wrong. He knew absolutely that it did not mean "Murder, Death, Kill", but he couldn't find any evidence to suggest that it didn't.

 

Since I said, this is what it probably means, and he said I was most-definately wrong, Sarjahurmaaja proved himself to be wrong. His entire arguement was based that there was no definitive answer. Thusly, he could not be definitively right, and I could not be definitively wrong.

 

He never did get that. Honestly, I figured you however would understand the difference.

 

I can dig up the thread and pull specific quotes if you'd like.

[mkreku]

Nothing that I said was wrong.

Uh.. I think this explains why you keep saying stuff like "Oh, if you keep this up I'll add you to my ignore list". Yeah, you go dig up your old quotes and edit them to make yourself look better. I am sure nothing you ever say is wrong. Just watch out so that big head of yours doesn't explode.

 

Instead explain to me how Blu-Ray is going to make the games I'll play on my future PS3 different (better? more fun?), because I can give you plenty of examples how the Nintendo controller is able to change the games we play (assuming it works as intended).

[EnderAndrew]

I have never editted old posts save for fixing typos, and I don't even always do that.

 

If I edit a post, it is generally right after I post it.

[mkreku]

I just thought of something (after seeing a teaser video for Nintendo Revolution on IGN): imagine Nintendo releasing a controller shaped like the hilt of a lightsaber! Apparently the controller is going to be able to simulate a sword fight too.. if it's not hype.

[Deraldin]

Would you guys give it a rest already! You already got one thread locked and we don't need this one to go down in flames, because you people can't stop arguing with each other.

 

In response to Kumquat, I haven't seen anyone as yet whose first reaction was not "WTF!?" or "AHAHAHAHAHA!"