Theory of Evolution

[Reveilled]

There is a paradox to life no matter what.  If we made by a superbeing  then where did she come from? So life and/or god and everything had to start from nothing.

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Why? God doesn't have to have come from nothing. In fact, if you look at the older polytheistic reliigons, you find that most of the gods have parents.

[11XHooah]

From my point of view, religion is a paradox. Similar in nature to the virus, neither alive nor inanimate, religion provides some of the world's greatest good and most of its greatest evil. Its only public agenda is acquisition and maintenance of power, political, cultural, and numerical. It views itself as the only proper way of existence and basically spits upon other views, despite the rampant corruption within its own order. Any who oppose it are supposedly destined to damnation of one sort of another and only through it can peace apparently be found. 

 

God is even more a fictional construct. He serves little purpose but to give people justification for their actions and forgiveness for their perceived sins. Yet most of these sins are never admitted to be such because "God commanded it."

 

I do not deny that a few can use religion in the pursuit of truth, justice, and overall good, yet I find these to be few and far between. More common are those such as Hitler and the militants of most religions who use their beliefs as reason to exterminate others.

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So I take it you're an atheist

 

I do agree with you that religion can be used for evil. Just look at the Muslim terrorists for example. But you can't rule religion as evil just because some people use it to justify acts of evil. Not all Muslims are terrorists.

 

Now, for what you said about religion and politics. I think that you have that mixed up with the church. I'll admit that the church is very corrupt, which is why I do not go anymore. But they seem to be the ones who take on public agendas, not the religion itself.

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Agnostic, actually.

 

Ah, but without religion, would we have half the problems we do today? I suggest not.

 

And I equate religion with the church because it is the modern face of such institution. While there are religious people who do not attend church, their ideas of religion have been formulated at one time or another by the church (whichever one it may be).

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I see.

 

To be earnest, I do not consider myself part of any religion. I am just a man that believes in God, and that is it. I don't have a problem with those that believe in more than one god or have different beliefs.

 

But is religion really the culprit in world conflicts? I don't think so. I believe it is the people who are part of that religion. There are many bigots out there. Perhaps it has been the human race who has been at fault all this time, not religion itself.

[cewekeds]

There is a paradox to life no matter what.  If we made by a superbeing  then where did she come from? So life and/or god and everything had to start from nothing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why? God doesn't have to have come from nothing. In fact, if you look at the older polytheistic reliigons, you find that most of the gods have parents.

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Where did the parents come from? If everything is related that means god made the world the parents made god. The parents had to start from somewhere or their parents or their parent parents etc... Can you see where this is going. If things had to start from nowhere then why can't we be where it started. Maybe god just being playing sims on his PC.

 

You know what I think. I think that our minds are too primitive to handle that kind of knowledge.

 

And the church what to keep us that way.

[metadigital]

I know this vader, but can you help me with an example of this? even in bacteria or virus? i know virus's change and become immune but that is ust a change, not a mutasion with an increase in information.

What came to my mind was when the 1st dinosars evolved wings and learned to fly, but there is no proof good enough in a deabate. can abody help me?

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MRSA is a perfect example of the "Survival of the Fittest" concept propounded by Charles Darwin in his scientific paper "On the Origin of Species".

 

MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) is just plain old garden-variety Staphylococcus -- "Golden Staff" -- that has bred resitance to the most powerful poisons used to kill it.

 

Consequently, doctors cannot use penicillin or any other drug, as even their "doomsday weapon", namely methicillin, doesn't work on it. The MRSA strain has grown from the small percentage of organisms that had a natural resistance to the poisons; as all other forms of Golden Staff died, they were able to grow without competition and so became a dominant strain (in the local area: be it a petri dish or a bed pan).

[Archmonarch]

And yet who created religion but man?

 

And perhaps I did not speak as clearly as I ought earlier. I do not blame religion in and of itself, but instead the mockery that has been made of it by humanity. You are correct in that we cannot blame Stalin on Atheism or Hitler on religion. However, the belief system in which they were raised contributed to a great deal of their later precepts.

 

And as I view humans to be overall a race of idiots, I do not deny someone would find another way, another reason, to commit mass murder.

[11XHooah]

And the church what to keep us that way.

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To be honest, I don't understand any of it. But I believe in God none the less. That's what faith is.

 

The problem with the human race is that we are arrogant when it comes to knowledge. We think that we have the mental capacity to understand how everything works, but there are some things that we can't. How do you explain nature for example? Is there a Mother Earth? We don't know, and we probably never will. Now I see that you want to place blame on the church for us not understanding how God was created, if he even was created. But did you ever think that maybe God made us this way. Maybe his intent was to build us so there were some things that we couldn't understand.

[WITHTEETH]

Thanks Metadigital!

I was told virus' that become immune to penecillin do not have an increase but a decrease in mutation information increase, anyone know why?

[Reveilled]

There is a paradox to life no matter what.  If we made by a superbeing  then where did she come from? So life and/or god and everything had to start from nothing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why? God doesn't have to have come from nothing. In fact, if you look at the older polytheistic reliigons, you find that most of the gods have parents.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Where did the parents come from? If everything is related that means god made the world the parents made god. The parents had to start from somewhere or their parents or their parent parents etc... Can you see where this is going. If things had to start from nowhere then why can't we be where it started. Maybe god just being playing sims on his PC.

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It is not inconcieveable. After all, what is the Universe but a really good version of The Sims? They even reviewed Real Life as an MMORPG on Gamespot once (it got a 9.6). In fact, for all we know, whatever Deities may or may not have created us may have gods of their own which they worship. Who knows?

[metadigital]

You should stop trying to derail the thread about evolution into a thread about the validity of religion. Most religious people do not have a problem with evolution: in fact you would be hard pressed to find many people outside the Bible Belt in the US who do.

 

To argue against evolution is to insist that the entire world, all the scientific evidence from all spheres of science: be it interstellar gaseous chromotography or gene therapy, or plate tectonics, or radioacitve decay, or lingusitics, or whatever else we study all support evolution.

 

The concept of a god is only discounted on purely logic terms: if god is not necessary, then why have one? If you say "God created the universe, and god has always been here" why can't I say the same about the universe, without the need for a god? That's what Occham's Razor, which is the principle of simplying cmplex statements by removing anything not necessary. Especially if we can providfe evidence of the forward process of time on the constituent elements of the universe and it provides a consistent and independently verifiable story.

 

If you want to believe in any metaphysical adjunct to the real world, that is your choice; at no point is the validity of science ever in question by said belief.

[cewekeds]

If god made us in his own image then maybe he wants us to figure out everything he knows and surpass him. His the father and most parents want their children to become better then themselves. Maybe not even god knows where she came from.

 

When I went to church they claimed to have all the anwser and the most common is because god wills it. then you ask why your told your evil to even question the almighty. Thats why the church causes evil because they teaches people to follow blindly and everything its followers do is for the greater good and its god will.

[metadigital]

Thanks Metadigital!

I was told virus' that become immune to penecillin do not have an increase but a decrease in mutation information increase, anyone know why?

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If I understand your question, I think you are asking if it is possible for the successful variant of a bateria to have less genetic mutation information. I would say yes, it is possible. Whether this is the case, I don't know categorically. As most of the variants of Golden Staff would be killed by the antibaterial agents used in a hospital, for example, then the limited ones that survive would not have the bredth of genetic diversity that the larger initial group would, anymore than if the Nazis had killed off all the other races except Arian blue-eyed, blonde haired people would not have the genetic diversity that included that only people from Africa have in their genetic makeup.

[11XHooah]

If god made us in his own image then maybe he wants us to figure out everything he knows and surpass him. His the father and most parents want their children to become better then themselves. Maybe not even god knows where she came from.

 

When I went to church they claimed to have all the anwser and the most common is because god wills it. then you ask why your told your evil to even question the almighty. Thats why the church causes evil because they teaches people to follow blindly and everything its followers do is for the greater good and its god will.

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Like I stated before, I believe the church is corrupt. It is the epitome of bigotry in my opinion. Ideally, all religions should respect the others beliefs. But the church does not find that palatable. And like I said before, it is the fault of the human race, not religion, that causes conflict. And last time I checked the human race created the church.

 

And for your information, all that "god wills it" is called faith. I have never seen God, I have never seen Heaven. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. I have faith that they do.

[Archmonarch]

You should stop trying to derail the thread about evolution into a thread about the validity of religion. Most religious people do not have a problem with evolution: in fact you would be hard pressed to find many people outside the Bible Belt in the US who do.

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I apologize if you think I was attempting to derail the thread, such was not my intent. Instead, I meant to respond to other comments on the issue and demonstrate my thoughts on the matter. Usually, these two issues are so tangled up (at least in the US) it is impossible to discuss one without the other except in certain specialized surroundings.

 

Also, while as you say most religious people do not find fault with evolution, the reverse is not necessarily true. Many scientific people find fault with religion.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Will we (humans) continue to evolve in the future? Surely with the advances in genetic engineering, cloning and so on, Darwinian evolution no longer applies to human beings. Are we able to shape our own future development as a species, and are we responsible enough to do this? What follows homo sapiens?

[Kaftan Barlast]

Homo Sapiens Sapiens if you must now. And it has already happened, we are them.

 

 

We are slaves to the constructs of our society and as such we are unable to control our individual fate, let alone the future of the entire species. Genetic engineering will come wether we are ready or not, and it will be whored to kingdom come by the rich & powerful.

 

 

Hooray!

[11XHooah]

Will we (humans) continue to evolve in the future?  Surely with the advances in genetic engineering, cloning and so on, Darwinian evolution no longer applies to human beings.  Are we able to shape our own future development as a species, and are we responsible enough to do this?  What follows homo sapiens?

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That's a tough call. Could we be our own demise? And from a religious perspective, would God allow us to do such things?

[Archmonarch]

Actually, the novel I'm currently working (posted in part in the "The Other Side of Art..." thread; yes I'm advertising my writing) on addresses this issue indirectly. I for one see genetic engineering as a good thing as long as someone doesnt use it to eliminate all genetic diversity. Hell, who says the humanity of the future will even be remotely human?

[WITHTEETH]

methicillin- could it just have a beneficial mutation? or does it have a mutation of increase in information? can someone help guide me

 

I am so stubborn with this topic because if we can't prove prove what has evolved by adding new stuff like methicillin might have then how can we beleive in it? - this is a christian point of view.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Genetic engineering will come wether we are ready or not, and it will be whored to kingdom come by the rich & powerful.

 

Hooray!

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Well, it won't make them happy.

 

I don't know if any technological advance has ever really altered the relationship between rich and poor. And I'm optimistic that in societies where social cohesion is still considered important, even though it may be under threat, many of the benefits of genetic engineering will be widely available to most people.

[metadigital]

I apologize if you think I was attempting to derail the thread, such was not my intent. Instead, I meant to respond to other comments on the issue and demonstrate my thoughts on the matter. Usually, these two issues are so tangled up (at least in the US) it is impossible to discuss one without the other except in certain specialized surroundings.

 

Also, while as you say most religious people do not find fault with evolution, the reverse is not necessarily true. Many scientific people find fault with religion.

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Sure, that sounded a bit harsh (especially for the Way Off-Topic forum! :D ).

 

It is incredible that there are still fundametalists that insist in a literal interpretation of the Bible. What is ironic is that fundamentalist bigotry, pogroms, and religious intolerance was the very thing the forefathers fled from in Europe.

 

There are a lot of scientists on the fringes of our knowledge (e.g. the particle physicists) that are very religious, too. I am quite sure you will not find any factual reason why a god can or cannot exist. It is merely a question of faith.

 

Some people look into the void and insist that there must be something more. Others don't see it. Whether the first group are the proberbial blind man seeing a black cat in a dark room, or the if the cat isn't really there, as the second group insists, is all down to faith.

 

What is reprehensible is the militant insistance on evagelizing to convert human capital to a particular theology as a political endeavour, whether this is overt or accidental.

[Archmonarch]

I do think there's something more out there; I simply dont believe it takes the form of an all powerful being. Personally, I believe in the existence of life elsewhere in the universe/multiverse.

 

Also, the first reason I had to hate religion was the fact I was born Jewish. This is not a bad thing in and of itself, nor is there anything wrong with Judaism. My objection lies in the fact that despite any words to the contrary the US is a Christian nation and considers itself thus. Therefore, any who practice a different religion are at least arbitrarily outsiders. Furthermore, I detest that a great deal of Christian funds are devoted to the conversion of Jews. If you dont believe me, do a google search. The proof is there.

[cewekeds]

forefathers parents fled from in Europe because they wanted to practice their fundamentalist bigotry, pogroms, and religious intolerance.

 

No matter what forum a Evolution thread gets started somebody always bring up god and it turns into Evolution vs. creation thread.

 

Why because some people don't believe in Evolution. They have their reason but to everybody else allot of work has been done to solidfy theory of evolution. Scince and facts will always change because new things will be discover and people will have to change how they think about evolution.

 

Albert Einstein

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."

[Reveilled]

Genetic engineering will come wether we are ready or not, and it will be whored to kingdom come by the rich & powerful.

 

Hooray!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it won't make them happy.

 

I don't know if any technological advance has ever really altered the relationship between rich and poor. And I'm optimistic that in societies where social cohesion is still considered important, even though it may be under threat, many of the benefits of genetic engineering will be widely available to most people.

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EasyGene! :D No frills Genetic Engineering for all!

[The Elite_elite]

You see. This is why I hate threads about evolution/religion. I see some people who are nice and say, "Hey you believe that that's fine. However I don't" and then you have the "What!? You think that's false. You must be an idiot" kind of people. (points finger at Darth Vader) These kinds of threads really make me lose respect for some people sometimes.

[WITHTEETH]

Genetic engineering will create much fear leading to hate... all men will not be created "equal" anymore but will it matter? will it matter if we can save the earth with this power to create einstiens on a assembly line.