TSL: General Discussion

[Zach Morris]

I am enjoying my time with TSL. The story, dialogue, artwork, all done very well. But what I want to talk about right now is the play balance in TSL. Particularly the play balance in the combat phases of the game. I felt my choices really didn't matter in combat. Because I would win regardless of what I chose. Flurry, Power Attack, Force Whirlwind, they all fell to me. I know that the enemies scaled to your level but all that scaling seemed to do was give the enemies double or even triple the hit points. This really didn't help them because when my PC was hitting for 30-60's up to 4 times a swing (on a master speed/master flurry strike) all my character had to do was swing one more time and they dropped.

 

I think with a couple of changes in the play balance of KOTOR 2 there would be great potential for a combat phase that would be filled with exciting life and death choices.

 

1. Keep easy and normal setting as they are in TSL so if people enjoy the way it already is they can just play on those settings.

 

2. On the difficult setting put the Level Cap back in. Level 20 cap would help the developers know how strong the party is. This would then help them craft enemies that would give better challenge.

 

3. (I know Obsidian didn't have a choice on this one) Don't start out as a Jedi. Have the story exactly the same. But instead of at level 2 you remember the force, make it story based so right after you get off of Peragus II then you would have the force come back to you then.

 

4. Let the Prestige class also be story based. Have it come earlier. Since the level cap would be in the player would need to be a Prestige class earlier to help take advantage of it more. I thought a good time to be a prestige class was the first meeting with Atris. Have your character learn it from her.

 

5. Bring back the old player level charts and create new ones for the 3 new prestige classes.

 

With these things put into the game the play balance would add more "choice" to the game which is what play balance really is. Giving the gamer choices that matter. I think it would have been a lot of fun to be a Soundrel/Consular/Master. Or the player could do whatever they wanted. Soldier/Sentinal/Weapon Master.

[Zach Morris]

Here is how I think the player charts should have looked in TSL.

 

Scoundrel: Same as in KOTOR.

Scout: Same as in KOTOR.

Soldier: Same as in KOTOR.

Consular: Same as in KOTOR.

Sentinal: Same as in KOTOR.

Guardian: Same as in KOTOR.

 

Jedi Master:

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Feat Defense Bonus

1 +1 2 2 2 1 2

2 +2 3 3 3 0 2

3 +3 3 3 3 1 2

4 +4 4 4 4 0 2

5 +5 5 4 5 0 2

6 +6 5 5 5 1 4

7 +7 6 5 6 1 4

8 +8 7 6 7 0 4

9 +9 7 6 7 1 4

10 +10 8 7 8 0 4

11 +11 9 7 9 0 4

12 +12 9 8 9 1 6

13 +13 10 8 10 1 6

14 +14 11 9 11 0 6

15 +15 11 9 11 1 6

16 +16 12 10 12 0 6

17 +17 13 10 13 0 6

18 +18 13 11 13 1 6

19 +19 14 11 14 0 6

20 +20 15 12 15 0 6

 

Jedi Watchman

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Feat Defense Bonus

1 Ends Ends Ends Ends Same Same

2 at at at at as as

3 20 15 15 12 Master Master

etc.

 

Jedi Weapon Master

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Feat Defense Bonuse

1 +2 Fort+ Ref+Will same 1 Same

2 +3 as Jedi Watchman 1 as

3 +4 1 Master

4 +5 0

5 +7 1

6 +8 0

7 +9 1

8 +10 0

9 +12 1

10 +13 0

11 +14 1

12 +15 0

13 +17 1

14 +18 0

15 +19 1

16 +20 0

17 +22 1

18 +23 0

19 +24 1

20 +25 0

[Zach Morris]

I had that all formated so it was easy to read but something happened...

[Reveilled]

I had that all formated so it was easy to read but something happened... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you put [ code ] tags around it

 

everything        will     keep   its   spacing

 

I think, though, that the Jedi Master should have a 0 1 1 2 2 3 3 and so on progression, and the Watchman a 0 1 2 3 4 5 progression.

[Aewulf]

Two adjustments could easily be made to the game to increase the difficulty. Add one or two difficulty levels which increase opponents hit points, damgage, etc. Program enemy Jedi to initially cast force resistance or force immunity. I was employing stasis field on groups of jedi at the end (and that just shouldn't be possible except againt apprentice jedi).

[Reveilled]

Here is what I would propose:

 

Weaponmaster
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Def
1st   +1    2   2    2  2   
2nd   +2    3   3    3  2
3rd   +3    3   3    3  2 
4th   +4    4   4    4  2
5th   +5    5   5    4  2
6th   +6    5   5    5  4 
7th   +7    6   5    6  4 
8th   +8    7   7    6  4
9th   +9    7   7    6  4 
10th  +10   8   8    7  4
11th  +11   9   9    7  4
12th  +12   9   9    8  6 
13th  +13  10  10    8  6 
14th  +14  11  10    9  6
15th  +15  11  11    9  6
16th  +16  12  12   10  6
17th  +17  13  13   10  6
18th  +18  13  13   11  6
19th  +19  14  14   11  6
20th  +20  15  15   12  6

Watchman
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Def
1st   +0    2   2    2  2   
2nd   +1    3   3    3  2
3rd   +2    3   3    3  2 
4th   +3    4   4    4  2
5th   +3    4   5    5  2
6th   +4    5   5    5  4 
7th   +5    6   5    6  4 
8th   +6    6   7    7  4
9th   +6    6   7    7  4 
10th  +7    7   8    8  4
11th  +8    7   9    9  4
12th  +9    8   9    9  6 
13th  +9    8  10   10  6 
14th  +10   9  10   11  6
15th  +11   9  11   11  6
16th  +12  10  12   12  6
17th  +12  10  13   13  6
18th  +13  11  13   13  6
19th  +14  11  14   14  6
20th  +15  12  15   15  6

Master
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Def
1st   +0    2   2    2  2   
2nd   +1    3   3    3  2
3rd   +1    3   3    3  2 
4th   +2    4   4    4  2
5th   +2    5   4    5  2
6th   +3    5   5    5  4 
7th   +3    6   6    6  4 
8th   +4    7   6    7  4
9th   +4    7   6    7  4 
10th  +5    8   7    8  4
11th  +5    9   7    9  4
12th  +6    9   8    9  6 
13th  +6   10   8   10  6 
14th  +7   11   9   11  6
15th  +7   11   9   11  6
16th  +8   12  10   12  6
17th  +8   13  10   13  6
18th  +9   13  11   13  6
19th  +9   14  11   14  6
20th  +10  15  12   15  6

 

And I'd consider even that to be being generous. To make it really hard, I would have one good save rather than two (Weaponmaster - Fortitude, Watchman - Reflex, Master - Will), and have a progression where by the good save stats at +2 going up every two levels after level 2 (so +2 +3 +3 +4 +4 +5 etc.) and the two poor saves starting at +1 on level three and going up one every three levels (0 0 1 1 1 2 2 2 etc). Defence bonuses I don't know about. Bonus feats and bonus powers for Weaponmasters and Masters I don't know about either.

[Zach Morris]

How hard would it be to make a mod where you

 

1. Start out as a non-jedi

 

2. Become a Jedi once you land on Telos.

 

3. Become a Prestige once you meet Atris.

 

4. Put in a level 20 Player Cap.

 

5. And adjust the level up charts.

 

?

[Reveilled]

How hard would it be to make a mod where you

 

1.  Start out as a non-jedi

 

2.  Become a Jedi once you land on Telos.

 

3.  Become a Prestige once you meet Atris.

 

4.  Put in a level 20 Player Cap.

 

5.  And adjust the level up charts.

 

?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

2 and 3 would be a breeze, I think.

 

With regards to 1, well, there was a mod for KotOR 1 that started you as a Jedi, so starting you as a non-Jedi should be the same sort of thing.

 

4 and 5 would be the real hard ones. I reckon you could do 5, but it would be a universal difficulty mod, not something you could restrict to hard mode. As to 4, I don't have a clue. But other games have mods to remove a level cap, so at least in theory you should be able to insert one.

[Zach Morris]

Messed around today and I was able to start out as a scoundrel. I did pick the beginning stuff as a Jedi but as soon as I controlled my character she was a scout. I level upped and still worked. So now off to figure out about player charts.

[Objulen]

I don't know how familiar you are with D20, so I'll just throw this out:

 

If you are going to set the level cap to 20, then you need to make it so the character gains access to her/his PrC when reaching the 11th level (i.e. leveling to that level) so it can be finished, since the average PrC is 10 levels.

 

I don't think that Atris would be the best choice, since she clings to the light (at least in her own mind) at this point in the game, and she is very antagonistic. Leaving this with Kreia would be better IMO.

[Reveilled]

I don't know how familiar you are with D20, so I'll just throw this out:

 

If you are going to set the level cap to 20, then you need to make it so the character gains access to her/his PrC when reaching the 11th level (i.e. leveling to that level) so it can be finished, since the average PrC is 10 levels.

 

I don't think that Atris would be the best choice, since she clings to the light (at least in her own mind) at this point in the game, and she is very antagonistic. Leaving this with Kreia would be better IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I assumed that Zach meant that Kreia would give her PrC speech to you after meeting Atris, but maybe I'm wrong. As to levelling and the cap, we might be able to get the level lower somewhat lower than that. We could fix it so the maximum possible experience gained would take the character to 11th level, but allow for people to come in lower (like in KotOR 1, where the maximum experience meant to be gained of Taris was to take you to Lvl 8 tops). But I wonder if cutting the PrCs to ten levels will cause a character to switchback to his old class until level 20 (as happens in most RPGs, since PrCs are often greated to qualification at about 5th level), or would just cause a catastrophic engine failure.