Monk + Multi Hit Weapons = Nuclear Damage - how can we go deeper?

[Zhalk]

Hello, Guys!

Quick introduction: I'm a not-so-long-time-lurker, being brought back to Pillars of Eternity last Xmas and already put obsessive 700+300 hours into PoE 1 and 2. It feels nice to finally put a post where I've already read a lot from you guys. It's been may years since I actually took part in any forum, but I saw Aestus videos, then Boroer's builds, played a Mortar Monk and a Pin-Down Poet, trying to set most of my units to work mostly in auto-AI, and now this forum is my go-to leisure read time, thanks for that!

-

Before trying my first solo run, I'm running my first Trial of Iron with a Brawler (no subclass / tactician). I tried Forbidden Fist/Tactician (which didn't work very well) and didn't want to bother with taking drugs. Then, at some point, I thought "oh, swift flurry procs off from crits, how about I have more chances with a multi hit weapon such as Sun and Moon?"

Minutes later, this happened. It looks like a Multi-hit Proc, into Cleaving Stance, into 318dmg from successive Flurry/Drum procs. 

After I saw this: (i) I giggled; (ii) then I said to myself "I have to tell somebody" (even though many of you guys already know); and, finally, ask: (iii) how can we go further? I'm pretty sure Sun and Moon is just the tip of the Swift flurry.

What weapons/gear/combos have you guys seen that can proc hit chains like that? I might try my solo run (the next, after this Trial of Iron) around some kind of swift flurry shenanigan.

Thanks in advance for your ideas :)

[Boeroer]

9 hours ago, Zhalk said:

What weapons/gear/combos have you guys seen that can proc hit chains like that? I might try my solo run (the next, after this Trial of Iron) around some kind of swift flurry shenanigan.

Hi and welcome!

Together with Ball and Chain, Sun and Moon is one of the best options if you don't want to crash the game frequently. If you have no problem with reloading a crashed game then Mohora Tanga (spear) is maybe even more exploitable.

With Sun and Moon it's not only the two flail heads (which already increase the chance of crit chains drastically because every proc of Swift Flurry executes both flail head attacks again) but also because of Lunar/Solar Excellence. They add another 5% chance to repeat an attack roll because Sun and Moon's rolls are keyworded as burn and freeze attacks, too. 

Ball and Chain works great because it has three rolls: the normal flail attack roll, Crushing Yoke can proc Swift Flurry/HBD and then either Shackles or Subjugation. The latter is better for the chance because it procs on 100% of crits while Shackles only has a 50% chance. But with Shackles you can apply several different afflictions with one crit chain while the Knckdown effect of Subjugation doesn't stack or prolong. 

Mohora Tanga is crazy because the DoT "Red Flag Flying" which procs on crit can proc itself (when it crits). So with enough accuracy over fortitude (and/or an overall very high crit conversion chance) it will proc itself endlessly. The DoT doesn't stack with itself though, but that's not the crazy part. The crazy part is that it counts a proper melee weapon crit an thus triggers all sorts of stuff, including Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming but also Boltcatcher Gloves, Gatecrashers, Hylea's Talons, Ring of Molded Flesh, Avenging Storm and so on. Obviously it's a lot easier for Swift Flurry to proc when every crit you do is repeated a dozen times in a loop.
Unfortunately with high accuracy over fortitude you run into the issue of the game shutting down. At some point, when there's too many loop iterations, tha game cannot handle it anymore, some exception might not get catched properly and it just closes. It is a fantastic setup against high fortitude bosses (once one-shot Concelhaut with it) but your own death sentence (so to speak) if you use it against weak/low fort. enemies. 

Other weapons which have multiple melee attack rolls which can crit and proc Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming:

• Saru Sichr (Morning Star) : the DoT "Poison Dipped" does a seperate hit roll vs. Fortitude and can proc Swift Flurry which in turn does two rolls again (normal + DoT) - basically like Sun & Moon. I made use of this in this build where I combined Swift Flurry/HBD with the Body Blow modal of Morning Stars, Brute Force and then weaken (Enervating Blows) and stagger (Spirit Frenzy) to bring down enemies' Fortitude a ton: 
• Wicked Beast (Pike) : the enchantment "Hounding" works like a second melee attack roll, too. The good thing is that Hounding targets Reflex and has a +10 accuracy bonus which obviously makes it easier to crit. In addition to the higher chance of crit chains because you get two rolls instead of one the Hounding effects themselves can be very impactful, especially if you proc several of them in a crit chain. Especially the Knockdown effect is excellent. It is the only Knockdown effect in the game that lasts over 1 sec. In this case whole 5 seconds. The only drawback is the occasional self damage which also interupts. Luckily this is not tied to the attack rolls (this would kill you eventually) but only connected to the attack action itself. Meaning no matter how many crit chain procs you generate, the self damage will only occur once (if it occurs in the first place, tha chane is only 10%) while doing the striking motion. You can prevent the self-interrupt with Fractured Casque + minor injury. But it's not too bad because you won't interrupt yourself WHILE executing the attack but only right after - meaning you only get a hit animation and a little more recovery time. You won't lose any resources/spells etc. But you will lose a layer of Concentration if you have any.
• Sanguine Great Sword: Weeping Wounds on crit can crit itself and proc Swift Flurry/HBD. This is cool because it can heal you up nicely via "Blood Gift".
• Distraho (Great Sword) : "Menace" on crit. It procs Swift Flurry/HBD. However, the AoE upgrade does NOT(!). It targets Will - which is easy to debuff with a Club+modal and/or a Wizard (Miasma of Dull-Mindedness + Ryngrim's spells).
• Ball and Chain (Crushing Yokes on hit, Shackless and Subjugation on crit)

Those are the melee multihit weapons afaik. Then there's other weapons which are also pretty cool with Swift FLurry/HBD because they can have crazy accuracy vs. defense effects or have other interesting mechanics that interact with Swift Flurry:

• Scordeo's Edge (Sabre) : Adaptive grants up to +20 accuracy for all your attacks. Since Swift FLurry/HBD only proc main hand attacks, putting the sabre in the offhand while having a multihit-weapon such as Sun & Moon or Ball and Chain in the main hand is a great combo.
• Concelhaut's Draining Touch: there's a trick which allows you to keep this crazy summoned weapon for the whole fight. Don't learn it but cast it from a grimoire, then switch to a grimoire which doesn't have the spell. This removes the part of code which governs the "vanishing" of the Draining Touch weapon once you hit with it. So you can keep it until the fight is over. Now... Draining Touch targets Will instead of deflection. And a Wizard with a club+modal in the offhand and a Miasma spell can bring down enemies' Will by -65 points with just one cast and one offhand strike. If you pick Kapana Taga and get +2 engagement from it and then also use Ryngrim's spells you will terrify enemies which lowers the Will defense even further (now -75) and also gives you disengagment attacks with the main hand against them (which have +5 accuracy). This all combined leads to a very high chance of crits and thus to more Swift Flurry/HBD procs.
• Whispers of the Endless Paths: Offensive Parry counts as melee attack which can proc Swift Flurry. This is great against multiple melee enemies because you an get lots of free attacks if enemies miss you in melee. Any of them can crit and then eventually produce a crit chain.
• Tuotilo's Palm: Outward Spikes can proc Swift Flurry - like a Riposte basically. Unlike Offensoive Parry (which is 100% proc chance on miss) it has only 20%. Still nice to have. Swift Flurry always does main hand attacks so it doesn't matter the the shield bash and the Outward Spike attack are weak. It's about the added chance of trigering Swift Flurry.
• Akola's Apex Ward: Hard Counter does the same as Outward Spikes but only with 15% chance, but Shark Teeth Counter brings it up to 25%. In combination with Blood Rage (+10 accuracy when under 50% health) and a human (also +10 accuracy ehen under 50% health) it doesn't matter much that large shields do -8 accuracy - if you allow yourself to get blooded a bit.

Combining these (except Concelhaut's Draining Touch which needs a Wizard) with a Fighter's Disciplied Strikes + Cleaving Stance or a Berserker's Frenzy + Blood Thirst results in even more crits and thus more crit chains in a given time. Or using a Ranger for maximum accuracy gains (Marked Prey + Stalker's Link + Accuracy Wounding Shot for example) can also lead to nice outcomes. Whispers of the Endless Paths on a Monk/Trickster is cool because you can add the occasional Riposte to Offensive Parry, adding another potential free attack (like Cleaving Stance) with perfect action economy.

I did a complete playthrough with the Berserker/Helwalker with Saru Sichr as I said/linked to before... but I also did also a Nalpasca(I believe)/Stalker with a single handed Mohora Tanga (who one-shot Concelhaut). I used Stalker's Patience against normal enemies though to prevent too many game crashes and only brought out Mohora Tanga against high fortitude enemies.

The rest of the weapons I tested for some time with the help of the console (and surprisingly really liked Wicked Beast with Devil of Caroc Breastplate and Helm of the Falcon - not only powerful but also very stylish). I didn't do real playthoughs with them though. 

Sun and Moon + Tuotilo's Palm on a Monk/Soulblade shoud be really good in theory. The two flail heads mak it so that the first one dumps raw damage into the target when using Soul Annihilation and the second head already regains focus for the next Soul Annihilation while the shield bash doesn't get used (fortunately) because Soul Annihilation is a primary attack - yet you get the speed bonus of dual wielding and the enhanced chances for crit chains.

Same class combo with Whispers of the Endless Paths: Offensive Parry generates Focus (the Swift Flurry procs don't though) and Soul Annihilation works great with the cone AoE.

Whispers of the Endless Paths + Monk + Fighter with Clear Out and Cleaving Stance might also be crazy. The cone AoE + Clear Out does absolutely devastating AoE damage, especially with the +10 INT from the Monk's side. And Clear Out hits the initial target twice, making crit chains and kills more likely. Add the Offensive Parry for more potential crit chains out of the ordinary attack phases. 

Akola's Apex Ward + multihit weapon in the main hand may be very cool with a human Monk/Streefighter I reckon: lots of speed, higher Sneak Attack and crit dmg when flanked and blooded, Riposte and Shark Teeth Counter for many chances to proc Swift Flurry. Thematically Mohora Tanga would fit best. But I guess something like Ball and Chain or Sun & Moon would be safer.  

 

 

Edited Saturday at 11:51 AM by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

PS: found a screenshot where I tested Mohora Tanga with the Monk/Ranger first and one-shot Concelhaut (before doing it in the actual playthrough):

The top part in the combat log is all the Red Flag Flying crits in a loop whith tha occasional non-crit (can only guess why they didn't stop the loop). The log orders the rolls in such a manner that all Red Flag Flying procs are in one place and the Swift Flurry stuff comes after. I don't think they acutally occur in that order.
Below come the Swift Flurry/HBD entries which were all triggered by either the looping crits or by themselves. If I had used Boltcatcher Gloves Concelhaut would have been dead way earlier.
Mohora Tanga + Boltcatchers alone - even without any Monk/Swift Flurry stuff - is already devastating. Add Swift Flurry and Hearbeat Drumming and stuff gets pretty crazy. But as I said: beware the game crashes.  

Edited Saturday at 12:01 PM by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

found another one from a test session:

Edited Saturday at 12:04 PM by Boeroer

[ebonfowl]

15 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Together with Ball and Chain, Sun and Moon is one of the best options if you don't want to crash the game frequently. If you have no problem with reloading a crashed game then Mohora Tanga (spear) is maybe even more exploitable.

OK, so I have read through the thread where the Red Flag Flying self-proc was discovered and discussed, and it is my go-to monk loadout now. In that thread y'all pointed out that it is much less risky in the offhand, but will still crash the game if player accuracy exceeds enemy defense by over 100 points (every hit is a crit). After playing for over 100 hours with Mohora Tanga in my monk's offhand I think there may be more to it.

Even with multiple stacks of +20 accuracy from Scordio's Edge + SoF (like 5+ when I've tested it), I never crash the game when it is in my offhand unless I do a regular auto-attack. If I use any other active ability that does a full attack (such as stunning blow) it has never crashed the game, even though I get massive Red Flag Flying chains. One thing I have noticed is that the animation from the standard auto-attack will often attack with the offhand weapon first (and these are the only times I crash my game), but a full attack ability will always attack with the primary weapon first, then the offhand.

I have not tested this with Entropy or other 100% crit conversion methods yet, but my accuracy has been so high that it is in effect the same thing.

@Boeroer did you ever crash the game with an active ability full attack, or was it always with auto attacks? I am curious if I am on to something here, or if it is just the luck of many, many draws.

Also worth noting that I strictly play turn-based. Not sure if that matters.

To the OP: my vote is 1) Magran's Favor (main) + Mohora Tanga (offhand) for single target annihilation or 2) one of the mortars (main) + Mohora Tanga (offhand) for widespread destruction. You can add bolt catchers, etc., but it is not needed if you have some way of boosting your accuracy. I see Mohora Tanga as a worker thread that proceeds in the background allowing you to attack over and over with the main hand weapon due to Swift Flurry/HBD procs, so there is much less need for a multi-hit weapon in the main hand. Then the question becomes: which one-handed weapon is best to hit with over and over? In my estimation, this seems to be something with Bleeding Cut for single targets and multi-hit mortar AOEs for groups.

Seeker's Fang is, of course, also great if you want to MC with Cipher, particularly if you are willing to make a bunch of Soul Blade max focus stacks permanent with SoF/CG - then you are holding an absolute nuke that deals massive raw damage and basically has its own version of Bleeding Cut. Also has a cool multi-hit cone AOE once/encounter that won't proc Swift Flurry/HBD, but will proc the giant raw DOT once on each target and the smaller, but stackable raw DOT three times on each target. With the potentially sky-high intelligence of the monk, the cone is actually pretty good sized too.

[Boeroer]

8 hours ago, ebonfowl said:

 

@Boeroer did you ever crash the game with an active ability full attack, or was it always with auto attacks? I am curious if I am on to something here, or if it is just the luck of many, many draws.

I have definitely crashed my game countless times with Force of Anguish on a single-/one-handed Nalpazca/Stalker. So not offhand but main hand, nothing in the offhand. 

So that might play a role as well.

Since Swift Flurry/HBD only execute main hand attacks (even if the offhand crit triggered SF/HBD) it is considered to be safe(r) to use Mohora Tanga in the offhand since that limits the risk of too many Red Flag Flying loops. But this is a theory mostly, slightly backed by some testing results but comprehensively proven I guess.

Your observation with offhand auto-attacks may reveal something still. For example it could be that exceptions get caught by the game properly when attack abilities are used and then the loop gets canceled no matter what or are just more robust - but with auto attacks those exceptions might get totally unchecked and get handed up until the game needs to close before compromising the OS's performance due to memory issues. No idea, it's just a guess. But it could indeed be that auto attacks behave differently in that regard and that's why you see more crashes (or any) in the first place.

Could also be that your hardware (RAM size, CPU etc.) influence how many loops can be processed until it has to shut down to prevent bigger issues. It might be that players with more RAM will see Crashes a lot less often than players with less RAM. Again: just a guess. 

But if a player tries out Mohora Tanga and it just works and doesn't crash the game often: that's great.

I also made it fun despite the crashes. I just had to find a way that works well for me.

In any case it's mad fun to just obliterate an otherwise difficult foe with a series of nasty crits - all in one strike.

Edited Sunday at 11:57 AM by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

PS: if I remember correctly then Magran's Blessing has a Fire Shield which also can proc Swift Flurry because this version of Fire Shield inherits the weapon attack tag from the shield it's attached to. 

So Magran's Blessing + multihit weapon could also be a nice pick. 

[ebonfowl]

5 hours ago, Boeroer said:

I have definitely crashed my game countless times with Force of Anguish on a single-/one-handed Nalpazca/Stalker. So not offhand but main hand, nothing in the offhand. 

I figured I would test it more and sure enough crashed my game almost immediately with Stunning Blow and MT in the offhand. Just had to add a bunch more accuracy - I don't think I was quite high enough to truly go infinite on PotD with modded extra upscaling. Also, I had Seeker's Fang in my main hand for my last playthrough on a transcendent, so I think the giant raw damage was killing all the low-fortitude weaklings before MT even hit them (so maybe the consistent order of hits with full attack abilities does matter in some contexts).

Currently making a "safety valve" mod that does not interfere with the self-proc, but prevents the infinite loop. By setting `MaxTriggerCount` to a finite number I think it may stop the loop from going infinite. I just one-handed MT hit a dummy three times in a row and my game did not crash. It hangs for a bit, but the loop does stop even when every Red Flag Flying hit is a crit.

I need to tune the value a bit to see if I can cut the loop off earlier. At `MaxTriggerCount: 30` it still overflows the combat log before stopping itself and hangs for a good second or two.

[ebonfowl]

5 hours ago, Boeroer said:

PS: if I remember correctly then Magran's Blessing has a Fire Shield which also can proc Swift Flurry because this version of Fire Shield inherits the weapon attack tag from the shield it's attached to. 

So Magran's Blessing + multihit weapon could also be a nice pick. 

Haha I didn't know this. I guess I am going to have to console Eder into a monk in every playthrough now...

Speaking of multi-hit weapons, does Ball and Chain give 3 chances for Swift Flurry/HBD per attack when it crits with Crushing Yoke and Subjugation? I am looking at Crushing Yoke in the exported JSONs right now and I didn't realize it launches an attack in basically the same way Mohora Tanga does. If so, there is only a ~12.5% chance that it doesn't trigger at least one proc. That's pretty great.

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, ebonfowl said:

Speaking of multi-hit weapons, does Ball and Chain give 3 chances for Swift Flurry/HBD per attack when it crits with Crushing Yoke and Subjugation? I am looking at Crushing Yoke in the exported JSONs right now and I didn't realize it launches an attack in basically the same way Mohora Tanga does. If so, there is only a ~12.5% chance that it doesn't trigger at least one proc. That's pretty great.

I think so, but to be honest I haven't looked at it in detail and also didn't test it as much as I did with most of the other weapons we mentioned.

2 hours ago, ebonfowl said:

Currently making a "safety valve" mod that does not interfere with the self-proc, but prevents the infinite loop. By setting `MaxTriggerCount` to a finite number I think it may stop the loop from going infinite. I just one-handed MT hit a dummy three times in a row and my game did not crash. It hangs for a bit, but the loop does stop even when every Red Flag Flying hit is a crit.

 Very nice!

[Zhalk]

Hi all — quick follow-up to say thank you.

Your insights were genuinely excellent and pushed me to actually commit to a solo run instead of only theorycrafting.

I started the run aiming to eventually reach the “crit loop” territory, but the path I ended up taking was a Forbidden Fist / Steel Garrote (Monk/Paladin) — partly because I wanted a easy-to-play solo chassis (Deep Faith, Lay on Hands, Brand Enemy for long fights), and partly because I was curious if I could later get the crit-loop to heal me without a late game Sanguine Great Sword - It didn't work, as the "proc-hits" don't proc healing from Steel Garrote. Curiously, in my combat log the extra attacks often appear before the Forbidden Fist line.

 

Early game reality check: getting the crit engine to feel “online” before you accumulate a lot of gear is still hard. In Port Maje, I played medium shield+dagger modal. Once I reached Neketaka, things improved a lot after picking up Devil of Caroc Breastplate and Tuotilo’s Palm. I tried to start using Sun and Moon early, but low accuracy/damage divided by two felt like I was paying the “split damage” tax without the crit frequency to justify it yet. Squid’s Grasp (cannot be flanked) plus Acc Modal helped a lot with consistency from levels 7 and until now.

I’m level 14 now and my next plan is pushing toward Sayuka to secure Mohorā Tanga (and then progress Principi content for Scordeo’s Edge). The bounty for The Steel Preacher (for Boltcatchers) still feels out of reach at the moment.

It’s honestly hard not to feel tempted by other multiclass routes for the same solo run — Wizard self-buffing into martial, a Skald angle (“will Skald go brrr?”), or even Ranger accuracy-stacking (Marked Prey / Stalker’s Link / Accurate Wounding Shot-style reliability), besides the ever great Fighter for Unbending, Stances and Intuitive.

FF Monk kinda feels good, beside not looking optimal. Lots of resolve sounds safe, on demand interrupts is nice (why didn't I go Tactician instead of paladin, again?) and crush damage without changing gear is lazy and great. I'm eager to get Mohora and start wrecking havoc with Enfeeble+Stun.  

Thanks again.

[ebonfowl]

Boom! Got it! Took me several approaches, but now I have tight, reliable control over the max number of self-procs Red Flag Flying can do. This is 10 max, time to do some testing at 100 and see what happens.

[Boeroer]

12 hours ago, Zhalk said:

 It didn't work, as the "proc-hits" don't proc healing from Steel Garrote. Curiously, in my combat log the extra attacks often appear before the Forbidden Fist line. 

Steel Garrote only drains health from direct damage attacks, not DoTs. Red Flag Flying does no direct damage so no draining. I would have thought that the Swift Flurry attacks however would drain health. If they do not: I learned something new.

The order in which attacks appear in the combat log is not necessarily the order in which the attacks are processed internally.

12 hours ago, Zhalk said:

a Skald angle (“will Skald go brrr?”)

Not really. The phrase generation of a Skald is +1 phrase max(!) per attack action or "swing" - no matter how many attack rolls happen during that action. So even if you do 25 crits with Red Flag Flying + Swift Flurry/HBD you will only get +1 phrase point. However: since the Skald only gets a phrase point in 50% of crits, this setup makes pretty sure you get a phrase point every time you crit (and a crit chain follows). That's cool - but not insane.

The good thing about the Skald is though: with Killers Froze Stiff you get a really nice paralyze effect (enhanced by the Monk's INT) which causes 25% hit to crit conversion on the enemy (not on you). This not only helps to generate more weapons crits in general but also is one of the few ways to convert a graze to a crit:

If your character has graze to hit conversion there's a chance to convert a graze to a hit, but even if that character also has hit to crit: that won't get checked during the same roll where you initially grazed - because only one conversion type of your character is ever checked within one attack resolution. But if the hit to crit conversion is on the enemy this will get checked even if your char already had a conversion check. So the attack can go from char[graze->hit]->enemy[hit->crit] -> ouch!

Not game breaking but a nice little detail. 

Killers Froze Stiff + Ben Fidel's Neck is a pretty good debuffing cycle for Swift Flurry procs if you can generate phrases quickly enough. Note that the most costly invocation determines your max phrase point counter. It makes sense to pick one very costly invocation even if you don't want to ever use it. Just to expand your phrase point maximum.

Edited Monday at 03:25 PM by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

PS: Swift Flurry/HBD procs do not generate wounds for a Shattered Pillar.

I always forget if they generate focus for a Cipher. I believe not, but I'm again not sure anymore. Blame my reluctance to play  Soul Whip Ciphers I guess.

[Okkes]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

PS: Swift Flurry/HBD procs do not generate wounds for a Shattered Pillar.

I always forget if they generate focus for a Cipher. I believe not, but I'm again not sure anymore. Blame my reluctance to play  Soul Whip Ciphers I guess.

They don't generate focus  Stalker's patience very good for souldblade/monk with that extra attacks.

[Boeroer]

26 minutes ago, Okkes said:

They don't generate focus  Stalker's patience very good for souldblade/monk with that extra attacks.

Then I assume Lightning Strikes is better in that case. Lashes do generate Focus.

[Kind_Wayfarer]

Hello everyone,

Could someone advise on tactics against the megabosses. FF Nature Godlike, solo PotD upscaled, with the community patch. Is this even possible in a legit way, melee or ranged? I have defeated Auranic, but Belranga and Huani seem impossible, and I haven’t tried Dorudugan yet. I’m playing with minor role-play restrictions (always a good guy, etc.), so I may be missing some important equipment. Maybe I should try again, with multiclasses, like a Herald. Thanks in advance!

[Boeroer]

Against Belranga it's good to have summons (like Dichotomous Soul) so she can destroy them instead of you. 

For Huani you need interrupts such as Force of Anguish in order to prevent the merging process.

If you use Edér's armor with "Veteran's Maneuver" and also use Keeper of the Flame as weapon and have picked "Imagined Pain" you can farm wounds while doing Whispers of the Wind and thus spam it endlessly. You will gain wounds because Keeper of the Flame's AoE does friendly fire and targets reflex. Because you will be immune to reflex based attacks (Veteran's Maneuver) every AoE roll against you will miss, granting a wound via Imagined Pain. 

If you can spam Whispers of the Wind you can mostly stay invisible. If you use Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak then all attacks made during Whispers of the Wind will stun enemies. This is very good in the Belranga fight to kill a lot of little spiders fast in order to drop the defenses of Belranga quickly.

If you put Keeper of the Flame in the main hand and Mohora Tanga in the offhand like we described above you can do a lot of single target and AoE dmg + CC with Whispers of the Wind. Not necessarily against the mega bosses themselves (unless you brought Belranga's defenses down a lot) but the weaker spiderlings and the smaller split oozes.

Against Belranga you can also just hide behind some rocks, use Enduring Dance and send Dichotomous Soul summons to Belranga & friends from hiding - over and over again. You can also resort to that tactic in the middle of the fight if you have a potion of invisibility. 

Edited Monday at 09:07 PM by Boeroer

[Zhalk]

6 hours ago, Boeroer said:

PS: Swift Flurry/HBD procs do not generate wounds for a Shattered Pillar.

I always forget if they generate focus for a Cipher. I believe not, but I'm again not sure anymore. Blame my reluctance to play  Soul Whip Ciphers I guess.

5 hours ago, Okkes said:

They don't generate focus  Stalker's patience very good for souldblade/monk with that extra attacks.

It seems to be the case with the Steel Garrote healing as well. It will Heal-Lash from the main attack, not from any of the procs (even those which are actual "attacks") I couldn't confirm it it procs off from retaliation attacks (such as the proc from Riposte or Outward Spikes, I don't have access to the former, and barely can keep track of the latter). Later I'll try to find out if I can heal from Sun and Moon + Eothas upgrade or Magran's Favor healing lash from fire (Paladin's Fire Penetration coming in handy) if those damages come from SF or HBD attacks.

If the extra attacks would heal from Old Siec, that'd be another feather on the Skald's hat. After all, what is a good monk without some inspiring words and poetry?

[ebonfowl]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

For Huani you need interrupts such as Force of Anguish in order to prevent the merging process.

Hauani can merge back up into bigger oozes?? I've literally never seen this. Gross!

Another good monk strategy for Hauani is Fire in the Hole (main), Mohora Tanga (off hand), WotW, and a source of Avenging Storm (scroll, Heaven's Cacophony) - you can sometimes one-shot with such a build if you can get some bonus accuracy and hit-to-crit, or lower its fortitude and deflection. I think only the first blob has resistance to might afflictions, so you can stun the lesser blobs if you use WotW with the stalking cloak.

This can also work against Belranga to bounce mortar shots and WotW off the spiders, but her defenses are a good deal higher and the results aren't usually as spectacular until you kill a lot of the spiders and lower her defenses (though this happens quickly with this setup). On the other hand, I don't think she has any resistances, so you can sometimes get a lucky roll with one of the many attack rolls you will be making with WotW and stun her if wearing stalking cloak, even early in the fight.

[Boeroer]

8 hours ago, Zhalk said:

 I couldn't confirm it it procs off from retaliation attacks (such as the proc from Riposte or Outward Spikes, I don't have access to the former, and barely can keep track of the latter). 

Offensive Parry from the Whispers of the Endless Paths does drain health with a Steel Garrote. Iirc Riposte does, too. 

 

 

[Kind_Wayfarer]

18 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Against Belranga it's good to have summons (like Dichotomous Soul) so she can destroy them instead of you. 

For Huani you need interrupts such as Force of Anguish in order to prevent the merging process.

If you use Edér's armor with "Veteran's Maneuver" and also use Keeper of the Flame as weapon and have picked "Imagined Pain" you can farm wounds while doing Whispers of the Wind and thus spam it endlessly. You will gain wounds because Keeper of the Flame's AoE does friendly fire and targets reflex. Because you will be immune to reflex based attacks (Veteran's Maneuver) every AoE roll against you will miss, granting a wound via Imagined Pain. 

If you can spam Whispers of the Wind you can mostly stay invisible. If you use Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak then all attacks made during Whispers of the Wind will stun enemies. This is very good in the Belranga fight to kill a lot of little spiders fast in order to drop the defenses of Belranga quickly.

If you put Keeper of the Flame in the main hand and Mohora Tanga in the offhand like we described above you can do a lot of single target and AoE dmg + CC with Whispers of the Wind. Not necessarily against the mega bosses themselves (unless you brought Belranga's defenses down a lot) but the weaker spiderlings and the smaller split oozes.

Against Belranga you can also just hide behind some rocks, use Enduring Dance and send Dichotomous Soul summons to Belranga & friends from hiding - over and over again. You can also resort to that tactic in the middle of the fight if you have a potion of invisibility. 

Thanks, Boeroer. To clarify, this is a no-rest run with BB. I’ve noticed that my wound uptime is pretty bad — I’m constantly running out of them. Belranga keeps paralyzing me, and I don’t have dex immunity. I’m running Scordeo + Tuotilo, Ajamuut’s Cloak, Hylea’s - usuall stuff. A few uses of WotW, some summons, and I’m already out of wounds, so I can’t keep spamming WotW and summons. And then I can’t withstand Belranga’s or Huani’s hits.

When I used to play a Hellwalker together with a party, wound generation felt much easier. I’m probably missing some technique. Also, can I get Eder’s armor without killing him?

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Kind_Wayfarer said:

Also, can I get Eder’s armor without killing him?

No, you'd have to kill him unfortunately. 

[ebonfowl]

12 hours ago, Kind_Wayfarer said:

Thanks, Boeroer. To clarify, this is a no-rest run with BB. I’ve noticed that my wound uptime is pretty bad — I’m constantly running out of them. Belranga keeps paralyzing me, and I don’t have dex immunity. I’m running Scordeo + Tuotilo, Ajamuut’s Cloak, Hylea’s - usuall stuff. A few uses of WotW, some summons, and I’m already out of wounds, so I can’t keep spamming WotW and summons. And then I can’t withstand Belranga’s or Huani’s hits.

When I used to play a Hellwalker together with a party, wound generation felt much easier. I’m probably missing some technique. Also, can I get Eder’s armor without killing him?

Summon twins + run and hide + Mortification of the Soul? Just force the wounds, rinse, and repeat?