Sword Pistol build - a few noob questions, help please!

[Forechosen]

Hey guys,

So, I'm kinda new to Pillars of Eternity - I've read an awful lot about it, and I've been playing D&D and Infinity Engine games all my life so I've got a (sort of) fair grasp of the rules. However, for the life of me I can't work out how to accomplish the following build- and the last thing I want to do is re-roll my character lots, as that completely dampens my enthusiasm for the game.

So ideally, I'd like a damage focused 'glass cannon' - 'pirate' build. Sword in one hand (Sabre or Rapier) - and a pistol in the other hand (not a blunderbuss or anything else -  just a pistol).

My questions are, really:

1) Is this 'character fantasy' feasible to play? If this is anything like most games, I imagine more-or-less any builds work on the easier difficulties, but how about the higher ones?
2) How would I go about fulfilling this 'fantasy' in-game? I'm pretty much set on rolling either a Rogue or a Fighter (with a slight preference for Fighter for RP reasons) - would anybody be kind enough to explain the pros and cons of Fighters/Rogues, in direct relation to a Sword-Pistol-DPS-build? 
3) If this build isn't feasible, would a more conventional dual wield Sword- [Other Melee Weapon] be a much better idea? If so, again, Fighter or Rogue?

I've no interest in absolute min-maxing, I just don't want to be completely ruining my gameplay by attempting to force a sub-par build.

I hope what I've said makes some sense. Thanks very much for reading!

Edited March 31, 2020 by Forechosen

[Boeroer]

Greetings!

First of all: are you in the right forum? It sounds like you are taking about PoE2 Deadfire and not Pillars of Eternity I.

If you are indeed speaking about PoEI: it is not possible because pistols are essentially two handed weapons (because reloading requires both hands). So you can't hold pistol + rapier or sabre or something. 

This is possible in Deadfire where pistols and blunderbusses are now one-handed weapons. 

If you still insist that you're on PoE ( ) then you can do something like a quick-hands guy: start the combat with two or three pistol shots without reloading (you will switch from pistol to pistol that's tucked under your belt basically like a proper blackbearded pirate and fire it once) and then draw the sabre and go into melee. You could then even pick a two handed weapon or a dual wielding setup (like Rapier + Dagger or so - single weapon style is good in the early game but later on dual wielding is better in almost all cases). I think the better class for this is Rogue since the Fighter doesn't have too many ranged abilities but is focused on melee but Rogue mostly doesn't care if ranged or melee when it comes to his abilites. For such a build you would need Arms Bearer and Quick Switch (the talents) and optimally the Coil of Resourcefulness at some point (belt). If you pick Island Aumaua: even better since it gives one additional weapon set for one more pistol in the belt.

You can also skip the multiple pistols and use the pistol normally (fire-->reload-->fire) and only switch to melee setup once it suits you or once you get engaged. 

This could also be a Ranger by the way. Rangers are pretty well suited for being ranged/melee hybrids. They can fire & reload  pistols quite rapidly. The late game ability "stunning shots" is great with ranged as well (and especially) as melee weapons. If the animal companion doesn't fit your personal story then if course it's a bit off. 

That's both a viable approach and you wouldn't have a gimped character. 

But wielding pistol + melee weapon at the same time: nono.

About an alternative dual wielding build: almost anything works quite well. Fighters are more sturdy than Rogues while Rogues have higher dps output. Rogues have the most Full Attack abilities (strike with both weapons) so they profit most from a dual wielding setup. They are quite squishy though so you don't want to run into the fray with them like you can with a fighter but rather choose a flanking approach.

Besides fighters and rogues every class can make a decent dual wielder. See Ranger. Doesn't need to be ranged but works well in melee, too. Monk is maybe the best overall melee class and does not need to go unarmed. Works with weapons as it does with fists, no drawnback. Also likes dual wielding because Torment's Reach is superb with two weapons. But especially for the classes that rely more on spells the weapon setup isn't that crucial to their overall performance.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Boeroer

[Forechosen]

Hey thanks so much for the response!

Oh, gosh, ok that's embarrassing - I was talking about Pillars of Eternity 1, I had no idea that pistols weren't single handed! I never even thought to look or check, I just completely assumed they were. Well, that does indeed screw up my class fantasy a little bit!

That being said, you've given a really detailed explanation! I've got to say, the idea of switching out weapons doesn't overly appeal to me - so I'm thinking now of just eschewing the whole pistol idea completely - which leaves me with dual wield (Rapier + Dagger, for example, as you said) or a single, one-handed weapon (like just a Rapier).

So I suppose my question is now - for dual wielding, from what you've said, it appears Rogues work better than Fighters hands down (benefiting from the full attacks) - but how about single weapon style? You said above that single weapon style drops off towards the late game - does it drop off steeply or is it still absolutely viable, if not 'the best'? I'm thinking that if I can't go with my original fantasy, than perhaps I could try at a classic swashbuckler (with just one weapon)?

And how about the Fighter now? If I were going a single melee weapon, then surely some of the rogues benefits would become redundant (such as benefiting from full attacks)? 

So is a 'glass cannon' fighter viable? Or is that like trying to put a square peg in a round hole? The last thing I want to do is play a 'tank', however, is an 'unsturdy' fighter useless? Is the damage discrepancy between the Rogue and the Fighter that large? Or perhaps the fighter needs a high constitution and resolve to be effective? 

I've got to say Ranger doesn't overly appeal to me, for RP reasons really, I just don't love the whole 'nature' side of the class, the same goes for Monk honestly, it's just not a fantasy that appeals to me.

Apologies if it seems like I'm asking stupid questions, I know I could just 'play the game' - but with so many games, I've replayed the beginning sections (sometimes much longer than just the starting sections!) so many times trying to 'get things right' that I end up just getting fed up and putting them on the shelf for ages. Pillars of Eternity seems so up my street that I just don't want to ruin the experience for myself!

Edited April 1, 2020 by Forechosen

[mr_raider]

Dual wielding rapier and dagger is an excellent combo, since you you can get a very good dagger and rapier early in the game. 

 

You can also dual wield stillettos which somewhere between a dagger and rapier. 

 

Either way you need a backup weapon for Pierce resistant enemies. 

In this game dual wielders are more offense oriented and they tend to be low defense, but that depends on your class.

The beauty is that any class can dual wield, whether it's a fighter or a wizard. It's up to you to flesh out you character concept. Each class has its ups and downs. If you are playing on normal or hard, any build can be made to work. And if you screw up, you can Respec.

The deadfire pack adds some nifty pirate gear. A hat, a belt and some clothing that's pirate like. I actually built a swashbuckling cipher dual wielding with the company captains hat!

[Boeroer]

Single weapon usage is good in the early game because there you'll have the most trouble even hitting things. One handed usage gives you an instant +12 accuracy which is a lot in the early game (with your base accuracy still so low). LAter +12 is still good, but not that impactful anymore because as you can imagine once your overall accuracy is quite high 12 points isn't that big of a chunk anymore. Let's say you start with an Accuracy of 30  - then +12 is a 40% increase. If you climb to let's say 100 accuracy then +12 is only an increase of 12% which isn't that impressive anymore. It also doesn't help that the best outcome of high accuracy - landing a critical hit - only gives you an additive damage bonus (meaning it's only 50% of your weapon's base damage - this never scales). So critical daamage isn't a multiplicative damage bonus and thus it scales very badly: it doesn't at all.  So a critical hit doesn't raise your overall damage by 50%. It merely adds a bit of flat damage: 50% of your weapon's base damage. And keep in mindthat you don't really crit all the time and not that more often with sngle handed usage once yozr basic accuracy is already good.

At the same time dual wielding gives you something like a 50% attack speed increase (not really, but just to keep it simple). As you can imagine attack speed is a multiplicative damage factor: if you hit twice as fast with the same weapons then you just plainly double your dps. If you attack 1.5 times faster you raise your overall dps by 50%. This is always the case and stays viable throughout the whole game as long as you can hit reliably (accuracy is good).

Then some classes have Full Attacks (Paladins, Fighters, Monks, Rogues mainly) that strike with both weapons. That is powerful. Another advantage of dual wielding.

Because of that dual wielding is vastly better in the late game and starts being better right after the early game.

Two handed weapons: depends. When it comes to normal attacks and against heavily armored foes they are good.

Rapier + Dagger is a good pick for a character who mostly does autoattacks. That can also be a rogue. First of all they are very fast and the rogue's damage boinuses help them to overcome enemies armor better. With Full Attacks they are a bit inferior because those are limited and ususally you want to use them with high damage weapons like sabres because you want to get the most out of them. But with auto-attacks stuff like Rapier & Dagger has better dps. And also there are two early very good Rapier & Dagger in the game. This is also kind of important of course: that you can find good, fitting gear early.

Speaking of Rapier & Dagger: I once made a fancy fencing monk with that setup and it worked really well. So that's PoE's character concept in a nutshell: a lot of things work.

Fighter can be a good dual wielder.  Knockdown is a Full Attack and so is Charge (comes late but is very good). If you build him pure dps he's still no glasscannon but can reach good damage output. Not on rogue level but good. At the same time the fighter will go down a lot less. Dead chars don't deal damage.  

Good thig about PoE is that it's quite hard to make a trash character. Sure, you can build really powerful stuff - but it's hard to make a truly weak guy. 

My first char was a Barb and it was great. Next a Rogue: also great. Druid: great. And so on... 

In terms of fun: everybody is different. I enjoy two handed Barbs, all kinds of Monks and melee Wizards a lot. But Barbs have a special place in my heart. Fighter is good but a bit too dull for me as main character. I can't predict what you might like or not though. But I know there are certain combos that a) are easy to get early and b) were more fun for me than others.

Classes that start strong and thus don't frustrate new players are Fighter, Rogue and Monk. Monk is a bit complicated to play for a first-timer maybe.

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Boeroer

[mr_raider]

Question about sword/pistol and recovery times:

 

If you fire your pistol, then want to cast immediately, what is your recovery time?

Is the shot time +recovery+ reload of the pistol, or is it just the casting time?

 

And if you switch to a different weapon, than does the switch time come after the recovery time, and then you cast?

[Boeroer]

Reloading can be canceled (unlike recovery) so you can always cancel the reloading phase and start casting instead. 

Iirc the switch in PoE cancels recovery as well as reload and thus a caster who can Quickswitch with Coil of Resourcefulness might be able to skip spell recovery completely. It's been a time though so maybe I remember this detail incorrectly.