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Ulicus
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Posts posted by Ulicus
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Yuzhan Vong? I thought that there was a special reason for the Force not meaning anything to them. Hmm. Maybe I need to give up work on that lightsaber I was building. :/
They probably just don't have any midichlorians where they're from.
One of the worst things that Lucas ever invented.
This may just be me, but whereas my friends saw midichlorians as a device Lucas made to explain how people got in tune with the Force, my interpretation has always been that they were just a measure of its intensity much like how moths gather to a bright light.
They are- but it has to be accepted that they are also the only means through which a mortal can touch the Force. Personally, I'm not really bothered by them- some people say they have a problem with them because it sets a limit on how powerful someone can become in the Force, no matter how wise/experienced they are.
However, I disagree. I think that, like mentioned above- Midichlorians are attracted by the Force. People are born with a certain number in their bloodstream and the more they have, the easier it is to command the Force (since the "whisper" of the midichlorians is louder). This can be represented by the natural affinity that someone is born with for something, say an instrument.
The more they use the Force, the stronger their presence in the Force becomes- thus attracting more midichlorians, which in turn makes the "whisper" louder and makes it even easier for the Force-user to command it. And so on and so on. This can be represented by someone practising diligently with an instrument and becoming better with it.
Anakin is different in that he is born with a higher concentration of midi-chlorians than any Jedi has ever been able to obtain through development alone. I think a good comparision would be with Mozart, he composed his first symphony when he was five *or a similary young age* and learnt to play the piano just through listening to it being played. Simply put, his natural affinity for music was greater than most of the composers and muscians who had been developing their skills for years. Does this mean someone couldn't become as good as Mozart through practise? No, it would be possible but very, very, very hard.
When Anakin is crippled, he loses a lot of midichlorians (since his flesh is replaced with machine) and is thus weaker as Vader. However, he COULD eventually build up the point where he makes up for that loss through practise, but it would be akin to a master pianist having three fingers cut off. They *could* become great again, yet it is doubtful that they would ever reach, or surpass their former standard.
How do I account for not everyone being able to become Force-sensitive then? Well, simply put, if the "whisper of the midichlorians" is not loud enough initially, a person can never start manipulating the Force- thus they'll never attract any more midi-chlorians and never become Force-sensitive.
So, yeah, that's basically how I view midichorians.
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To keep it short: is Carth still in KotOR 2 if you choose that Revan was a dark side female?
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*Plays devil's advocate* I think it strengthens mine... Visas sees "through the Force", when she removes the mask she sees a "Force image" of the Exile's face, when the Exile asks who he was she replies, "just a man".
Heh heh, I severely doubt I'm right - I'm just enjoying speculating, which by its very nature can be wrong.
Oh wait, just realised- if you play a female character and Visas still says that then my theory is screwed. Dammit. *hits head on keyboard*Anyway, maybe Obsidian hadn't decided on Nilihus origins and I've inspired them to write up something similiar on Nilihus true nature for part III. Incredibly doubtful, but I can have my little dreams.
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Urrrg.
Hated this chronicle, for the reasons already given.
Really plays Revan down and contradicts stuff said in KotOR1.
Anyway, it doesn't matter- stuff on official sites is always wrong:
Malak's bio from teh KotOR1 official site:
Five short years ago, Darth Malak was no more than a promising student at the Jedi Academy on Dantooine.
-- Well, no actually- whilst I'm certain both Revan and Malak trained on Dantooine during their youth, they were on Coruscant during later stages of their training, getting lessons from Zhar. Also, the mandalorians invaded seven years before KotOR1, not five and the game always leads you to believe that Revan joins the wars almost as soon as they begin and that Malak joins him straight away.
Just out of interest, why have the "Mandalorian Wars" suddenly become "The Mandalorian War" in Chronical IX? Ok, I could accept "the Mandalore Wars", since Karath refers to them as that, but the Mandalorian War singular? What? I'm as annoyed as when Yoda said "begun this clone war (singular) has" at the end of attack of the Clones. Dammit, its clone WARS.
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Its possible, but its probably not very likely, and the game doesn't even hint at it.
Well, based on everything you (and others) have said, it hints at it very greatly.
It seems to make a lot of sense, after all, Nilihus is "pure energy" and the Force is "an energy field created by all living things" yada yada. He's linked to Malachor V, so is the Exile. He is hyped up to be an ultimate big bad yet in the end cannot even touch you (since he's pure Force and the Force cannot touch the exile... even though he can touch the Force) It just seemed like the logical explanation to me, even if it's a bit "Peter Pan and his shadow"... *has an image of the Exile trying to sew Nilihus to his feet* Weird.
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Ok... there's something "Force-magical" about what happened at Malachor V, the torment there... from what the council says - and what do they know? - it sounds like your connection, the way you connect to other people, could be partially responsible. Still, I think it's pretty clear the trayus academy is somehow responsible for the way the three sith lords fell. And how Revan fell... Trayus paved the way to Revan's Sith teachings, to his taking of the Star Forge.
And no, he isn't human. Everyone states that he isn't human, not anymore, anyway - he is simply a manifestation of hunger on a massive scale. The fact that you can beat him, though... shows that his immense power is only on the large scale, and not the small scale. Or perhaps you, being a "wound" in the force as nihilus was, were resistant to his attack. Perhaps he is blinded by such hunger to the tininess of yourself, and because of how you are a rip in the force like himself. In this case you maintained enough humanity to turn back from going too far, but he didn't. He is pure energy; did you understand what he was saying to you on the bridge of the Ravager, or to Visas when she was sent to get you? I certainly didn't. His motivations aren't human, they have nothing to do with the human spirit he once was. It's not important why or how he got where he was.... because there is no way to know or comprehend. I think putting it cut & dry in stone would do more harm than good to the story, because there's no way to understand what happened to him. You must simply stop him.
Now, going forward in speculation...
I think the Star Forge isn't as small as we think it is; I think it, too, comes as result of the Mandalorian wars (the finding of it, that is). Trayus paved the way to him finding it... I think I remember Ajunta Pall mentioning a great secret, a weapon, that the Sith Lords of his time were zealous of as a secret. It seemed pretty clear that this was the Star Forge at the time.
Although, maybe it wasn't. Maybe it had to do more with this other sith threat, the one beyond the rim, the empire of the True Sith. Whatever that actually means...
Hmm, Darth Nilihus, pure energy... hmmm, connected to the torment of Malachor V hmmm.... the Exile, a rip in the Force hmmm... caused on Malachor V by him cutting himself off due to too much suffering and torment within those he'd formed close bonds with meaning he had to protect himself from it.
Seems pretty obvious to me. Darth Nilihus=The "Fabric of the Force" that was ripped away from the Exile.
It's not too far fetched, these guys brought us the Nameless One and the Transcendent one after all and it pretty much amounts to the same thing *except with mortality instead of the Force*
I haven't played the game (I'm English), so there might be certain details in the story that mean that's impossible- but based on everything I've read about Nilihus and the Exile, that's what screams out to me.
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I'm more inclined to go with The Exile. Much of that is because Revan was, more or less, a blank slate. Its the fault of his amnesia, but KotOR2 actually provides us more background information on the guy we played in KotOR1 than the latter itself does.
What? that's exactly why Revan is better. He's *yours*.
I'm kind of annoyed about loads of Revan's history being "told" in KotOR2 (i dont know if it is or isnt, but thats the impression I've got) I wouldn't mind if they wanted to tell me about something Revan had gone and done *after* KotOR1 so much, but Pre-KotOR1 was always left pretty vague, I thought, for the purpose of letting you decide for yourself. (Yes, I know there are some obvious key points: charismatic, brilliant military leader, falls to Dark side... but it didn't seem to be overkill on the history department)
You could make up your mind if Revan was good until he found the Star Forge, or if he had been evil from the very start ala Palpatine: that's why you had conflicting views from different people throughout the game; now *especially having read Chronicle IX* pre-mindwipe Revan is a set personality and also a Jedi Master ... when the hell did that happen? Isn't he a bit young?
People complained about it "not being their character" when they found out they were Revan, but that's crap - KotOR made Revan *your* character, not just a character you played (though I admit, I do feel like I have to give him high charisma every play through... just because of who he is, which detracts from my point somewhat). KotOR 2 seems to make the Exile "the character you play" more than *your* character, from what I've read on spoiler forums anyway.
On a side note: I'm not particularly anti-KotoR2, I'm looking forward to it- but the true protagonist of the series will always be Revan for me.
Here's hoping to see him return as a playable character, even if he has to get amnesia again
(I know it's unlikely 
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it could be a screeny of female main character fighting nihlis.....
I thought he was referring to the concept art, in which Atris and Nihlis are definately fighting, since there are no screenshots of Nihlus fighting anyone and there was plenty of exposure on the artwork of Atris and Nihlus duelling.
But meh, I could be mistaken.
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he would have been much older if it was him i think
Well yeah, that's another one of the problems my theory hit. It worked fine as long as it was: "Sith came up with an offer, then Mandalorians attack"
But then I listened to Dorak more closely, and it turned out the Mandalorians were preparing for the assualt 20 years before KotOR, then finally launched it seven years before KotOR. So I knew I was wrong then, heh.
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In the game, from the little bit of info I'm trying NOT to read. It says Mandalore from the TOTJ comics was already preparing for war after the Exar Kun War. My question is, where do the Sith that come with the offer? Now if you played KOTOR it's quite easy to figure that Canderous wasn't talking about the Idea Sith in the game anymore, but the true sith.
So a one line can fix all that in the next game, but does Canderous say anything about the Sith who came to them with the offer in KOTOR 2?
Also is Dxun supposed to be like Kuar, a base planet for the Mandalorians?
The "Other" Sith Empire isn't necessarily a "true Sith race" one (or is it referred to as True Sith?) I thought it was just another one that was around before Revan, probably founded by the remnants of Exar Kun's forces/the Krath.
I used to have a theory that Revan was evil from the beginning and was the one who came to the Mandalorians with the offer, thus doing a "Palpatine" of being the head of both sides. Looks like I was wrong though, heh.
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maybe they dont want to lose another leader and friend like revan so they dont want to get close to you. this is pure speculation since i dont have the game yet
Does Mandalore join your party already at level 20? Canderous was level 20 by the end of KotOR for me. (Don't worry, I'm just playing devils advocate
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It was interesting that Kreia makes mention of the fetts (boba and jango...as far as what happens to the legacy of the mandalorians) but does not mention dantooine gets destroyed.
Probably because it isn't.
Unless it happens in the EU... I'm not too well read up on the NJO.
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i beat the game and i hadnt heard what revans fate was...people were talking about him constantly throughout the game but i never actually heard what happened to him
Revan, in the battle of Malachor V found the temple at the end of the game. Thats where he learned the sith teachings and likely about the star forge (or at least the dantooine map location) which led to he and Malak's course along the dark side. After he defeated Malak in KotOR 1, Revan regained his memories, some of which inclue WHERE he learned of this stuff (Malachor V) and eventually went into the unknown regions of space. Out there, a Sith Empire apparantly still exists. I guess if he was LS, he went to go destroy them, DS, to go learn from/join/rule them. Eitherway, good material for KotOR III
Chronicle IX has it that "Jedi Master" Revan found Malachor V at the start of the wars, got corrupted by its power, took the name "Darth" (incidentally, is the reason for this title's appearance explained?) and planned to seduce an army of Jedi to his cause with which he would beat the mandalorians, then lead on to conquer the galaxy (presumably - so pretty much, Revan was evil from teh moment he started recruiting Jedi to fight the mandalorians, which is what I thought anyway (I never thought he was a Jedi Master though and he is never referred to as such in KotOR)
Heh, for all my intial wailings against it- the idea of another Sith Empire doesn't sound altogether unappealling anymore. (I've slept on all I've learnt now and my dark side rage has cooled)
As long as it does not take the standpoint that the Sith we've encountered throughout KotOR I and II are *fake* Sith, or any less "Sithy" than this other Sith Empire then I'm ok.
I think it's likely this "Sith Empire in the unknown regions" was established by followers of Exar Kun or the Krath, as opposed to having remained there for centuries: since you'd have thought the Sith Spirits that bestowed the title of Dark Lord on Exar and Apprentice on Ulic would have known if their Empire still continued in some distant corner of the galaxy.
Just out of interest: Is it possible that the KotOR games are setting up the event that will "bring the Force *out* of Balance"? Because what with all this "disconnecting from the Force and distablising it" and this talk of people wanting to "destroy it" it certainly sounds like it's heading that way.
Edit: Whoops, forgot teh spoiler thingies... bah, I should have played the game before reading all of this, but I'm impatient... it would seem the dark path beckons for me.
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I'll be the first to admit that the plot really does die off after the Jedi Masters are killed and Kreia reveals herself, but it is by no means a letdown.
And Bastila only shows up if you said Revan was a male. She shows up after you leave the room with Carth and talks to him a bit. She says something like "I only wish I knew why he did it."
And it's obvious from the get-go that Mandalore is Canderous. He says "Clan Ordo still survives," and Kreia asks him to "find out why he left you there on your own," obviously referring to Revan.
Oh well, maybe they'll fix the plot for the PC version.
(note: this is said in jest and is not meant to be taken seriously, please do not flame Ulicus about his apparent stupidity in thinking they would change the plot for the PC version)
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It's a cliffhanger ending. It's supposed to leave many questions unanswered.
True but they are questions I don't want to ask.
It's getting silly... ah well, I should have faith, blind faith always served me well in other situations.Just briefly, I also hear that the continuity between KotOR 1 and 2 is pretty shabby- is this true? (There is certainly bad continuity in Chronicle IX in regards to what we hear about Revan in KotOR)
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Ulicus i dont mean to say it outright but ur a dumbass, kotor2 is, looking at the plot a filler like the 2nd matrix movie, and will tie together with kotor3, so thats why the plot doesnt entirely make sense. Its probly the smartest move for a starwars game that makes me think that lucas should never touch a starwars game again, or his developers.
No mate, you're missing my point. The plot, more or less does make sense - from what I've gathered. What I'm saying is that it sounds like s**t. Based on what's been said in this thread at least. I am willing to accept that since I haven't played the game I cannot possibly outright say, "It's terrible", because I'm getting my information second hand, however (and if you remember) I did say that I'll probably end up being converted into a lover of the story after I get the game anyway.
As for comparing it to the Matrix Trilogy... you are aware that parts 2 and 3 were abysmal aren't you?
Personally I do not think games should end "setting up a sequel", ala Halo 2. I'd rather have a solid conclusion that has the potential to lead on into further adventures etc. As I said however, you missed the point: I'm not really that bothered about the ending, it's this idea of "fake Sith" and "real Sith" that really bugs me - but maybe it works much better in practice than I think it does.
Oh, and I'm sorry you think I'm a dumbass, I'll try and word my concerns in a less confrontational fashion so you don't take it personally next time. On a side note, if you want to be rude can you please just be rude without the pretense of faux "politeness" beforehand? It's unneccessary.
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did Kreia not tell you about Revan?
She told me he left to go fight the true sith at the edge of the galaxy, and where he went he had to go alone. She also predicted you would find him and fight with him again.
*THIS* is my problem with the game's story.
What the hell are they doing? True Sith? Fake Sith?
WHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT????
Ridiculous.
So, are the "true" Sith the remnants of Sadow/Kun's lot? And the "fake" Sith the bunch Revan threw together?
Was it a case of Revan learning the secrets of the Sith and basing his "New Sith order" on them whilst the "Old Sith Order" with its own Dark Lord's continued to exist?
Is the DS Revan fighting the "true Sith" in order to gain dominance over them as well? And the LS Revan fighting them to beat them?
So, did Revan invent the "Darth" title?
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Nah, the endings I've heard about aren't my major gripe.
It'll prolly end up with me loving the game and doing everything I can to defend it's story, but right at this moment: from what I'm hearing (particularly in this thread) the story just sounds messed up and rather silly.
One thing I *really* dislike is being TOLD stuff about Revan's past. I don't want to know, Revan was my PC thankyou very much, I don't want you telling me that his much vaunted charisma was actually all force manipulation... that just sucks.
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Maybe they are tyring to make it more Star Warsish. The first star wars movie ended with an awards ceremony similar to how LS Kotor 1 ended. ESB ended fast and didn't really have an ending, just set things up for a sequel. Maybe that's what they were shooting for with this game.
That's just the problem- KotOR was a homage to the ENTIRE Star Wars trilogy and could be split up into three parts:
Taris and then becoming a Jedi at the end "I am honoured to welcome you fully into the Jedi Order" being the A New Hope Section
Planet Hopping and then the "I AM YOUR FATHER/YOU WERE MY MASTER!" moment and the "omg, one of the characters is in the enemies clutches!" Being the Empire Strikes Back section
And then everything after that leading up to Revan's redemption/return being the Return of the Jedi section.
I hope KotOR 2 is better than everyone here is making it sound.
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*response to entire thread*
Oh my gosh.
I'm sorry but if everything that is being said is true then this game's storyline is APPALLING.
I suspected as much when Chronicle IX was put up and had crap about "Jedi Master Revan" when he was clearly referred to as "a young Jedi Knight" in KotOR but I chose to think "well, some of these guys brought us Planescape:Torment, so they know what they're doing" but *seriously*!!! Doesn't anyone else (those who have read the blanked out spoilers) find the plot absolutely ridiculous?
Well, this just makes me want to weep- I was really anti KotOR II when I first heard about it, but over time came to be really excited about it and thought "hey, what I've heard of the plot sounds pretty awesome actually" but now... omg, it's terrible.
I just hope beyond hope that all the stuff being posted is made up because it's just pathetic. Sadly, I think it's true.
I mean, come oooon - some of the stuff I've read today sounds like bad fanficiton and is unstarwarsy as you could possibly get, as opposed to Bioware, who focused on a simple plot that was remniscent of the classic movies.
Anyway, I will still buy this game and see for myself. The optimistic part of me hopes that the plot in practise isn't as bad as it sounds here, but I haven't got much hope anymore.
Dammit, why did I come to the spoilers forum? At least before I could have come to this conclusion after finishing the game.
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Nope. I just know that Jennifer Hale is in the credits, therefore Bastila returns!
Whoa! She's in the credits of Planescape Torment too- weird, I didn't see Bastila in that game...
Oh wait, just realised- if you play a female character and Visas still says that then my theory is screwed. Dammit. *hits head on keyboard*
(I know it's unlikely 
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Carth and KotOR2
in Star Wars: General Discussion
Posted
Ok, cheers- i just want my DS Revan kotoR2 game to follow on from my DS Revan KotOR1 game without any continuity glitches. It's simply a case of "to romance or not to romance". Though I love killing Carth as a dark fem, i love continuity between a game and its sequel more.
It's ok for my other games, since Carth can't die in them...