Cymelion
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Posts posted by Cymelion
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So I am confuse, did the game got release or not?
It was released to the media a week ago - you get to wait because .... well you mean less to Obsidian than the media does and Youtubers with 28 subs.
"NOW! I WANT IT NOW! NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!"
Also, Paradox gave that guy a key, not Obsidian. You can at least bother to read the updates before spouting off bad information.
Which means there were keys viable to play the game - white knight them all you like - they put backers last in their list of priorities.
They're in the wrong here - no matter how pretty they can draw or how nice a story they can write - they're still treating backers like crap.
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So I am confuse, did the game got release or not?
It was released to the media a week ago - you get to wait because .... well you mean less to Obsidian than the media does and Youtubers with 28 subs.
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Obsidian just never learned, because whats best for Obsidian is lots of passionate fans and other than the same repeating names in this thread I don't see evidence of lots of happy fans.
Jesus, have you even ever been to the RSI forums? (And I guarantee my citizen # is higher than yours...)
Your complete lack of self-awareness is almost awe-inspiring....
Most likely - I didn't sign up to the website till closer to the end of the KS campaign.
I had the opportunity to have been a Golden Ticket holder but didn't think it would have meant much.
And yeah the RSI forums aren't always happy - but it's engaged which is a key difference.
But you know what I've said my piece those who disagree have that option - those that feel the same as I do aren't going to have their opinions changed by being called babies or told its a temper tantrum.
Its too late for Obsidian to fix their idiotic decision we'll all just wait for our keys - those on slow internet will wait longer.
I personally wont be bothering with Obsidian in future unless I see some bridge building and will be telling the people I know to stay away, whether or not that effects them (probably not) who can say. But honestly I respected these guys and was really rooting for them to succeed, and sure maybe they will but I'm disappointed in them for their actions I thought they would have been better.
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I'd say that "entitled" is pretty close to being a dirty word.
A quote I really like is "expectations are just premeditated resentments." And it's true. You expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave in the exact, specific manner you want them to and resent them when they don't. But it's unrealistic to expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave exactly as you expect them to. So in effect, you are creating your own resentments.
That's not to say you can never or should never expect anyone from anyone. But you need to be a bit pragmatic. And choose your battles. And try and look at things from different angles. Obsidian is clearly not trying to screw anyone over; they are clearly trying to make money. Obsidian has been kicked around for a decade. Do you think they are going to take the money, close up shop, and run for the hills? No! If they make this work it'll just be more Obsidian-made games for us fans in the future. Ultimately, they are doing what they are doing so they can continue to sustain a development cycle for future projects. It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies.
Not going to get into a language argument on the word entitled (it has multiple meanings and different countries/societies will use it differently)
I know Obsidian is going no where - but by voicing my nonacceptance of their behavior hopefully in the future they will either learn or ignore it - if they're better people they will learn if they don't then thats their consequences to bare.
Lets all be completely honest here - not one person here would have been upset in any way shape or form getting their KS editions early. Am I right? is there anyone who would have turned around and yelled at Obsidian for not holding it back and releasing it at the scheduled date?
But conversely there are people who are upset at finding out their backer status wasn't important enough to Obsidian for them to put them first above media. These people are allowed to feel slighted and disrespected and are allowed to voice their feelings on the matter. If Obsidian gave a crap about their backers they'll listen if they don't they wont either way their actions get judged.
Clearly you are having difficulty comprehending other viewpoints. Would I be "upset" if I got early access to the game? No. But I do honestly believe it would have been the wrong decision, and a weird one to boot, on something this high profile. This is not some crappy spaceflight game for the PS Vita, this is a spiritial successor to Baldur's Gate that will appeal to people who have never even heard of and want no part of Kickstarter.
I don't think it is smart marketing to elevate Kickstarter backers over the general populace. In fact, the reality is, Kickstarter backers ceased to be a revenue stream once their pledges were collected. Now, they have to appeal to the general populace. I think that Pillars of Eternity is woefully under-advertised but other than that I think their decisions are savvy. So I'm not sure "upset" is the right word but I think a headstart release would have worked against them, and it's not one I would have necessarily appreciated, no.
Again, I look at this holistically, not individually. What is best for Obsidian? What is best for Obsidian is to maximize revenue and profit. And, actually, that works for me individually too because Obsidian's success means more future Obsidian products for me as a fan of Obsidian.
Also, your decision not to get into a semantics debate with me over the meaning and use of entitled is a wise one, because you will lose the argument.
Stop trying to bait a derail dude - I told you I'm not a troll I'm a pissed off backer.
And the jury is in on putting backers before the general public - it gets you more backers - SC has proven it.
Whether or not Star Citizen is actually a good game or the backers get what they thought they were getting isn't the argument - its how they treat the people who fund them. Obsidian partnered with a publisher half way through going against what they had said in their initial KS and most of us gave them slack for that but I can't help but notice how much their interaction with their fans changed after getting the publisher.
Obsidian just never learned, because whats best for Obsidian is lots of passionate fans and other than the same repeating names in this thread I don't see evidence of lots of happy fans. Just like you're seeing the same names repeating for being unhappy - there are a lot of fans just not even here. Even just hanging out - the forums are patchy and sparse and the interaction is practically seeing its most amount of life today because of what people are finding out.
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Hey Star Citizen is a totally different beast than POE. The comparisons can be made, but honestly Wasteland 2 was worse on backer updates and it came out as a very good game. SC is a far more ambitious project and as backer sometimes I do get worried about the scale and scope of what they are attempting! Plus they killed Wingman's hangar, still messes with me on Wednesday lol
Actually no SC isn't a completely different beast - it's just Chris Roberts knew to put the fans first and he has reaped the rewards for that. Pillars of Eternity could have done that at anytime.
Wasteland 2 I never backed - I did end up buying it at the recommendation of a friend though otherwise I wouldn't have.
I imagine there are a lot of backers who never even knew this site was here are now looking through their emails wondering where their keys are to play the game that the media is playing. Because for a 4 million dollar kickstarter these forums sure have been vacant the last few months - compared to other kickstarters where the community only keeps growing.
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Thats why I boosted my pledge with Star Citizen to 2 grand
The crux of this entire grandstand.
If Obsidian had shown 10% of CIG's attitude towards backers I would have increased my pledge here too and sung their praises everywhere as well instead of now telling people not to bother with the game - odd how that works isn't it?
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I'd say that "entitled" is pretty close to being a dirty word.
A quote I really like is "expectations are just premeditated resentments." And it's true. You expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave in the exact, specific manner you want them to and resent them when they don't. But it's unrealistic to expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave exactly as you expect them to. So in effect, you are creating your own resentments.
That's not to say you can never or should never expect anyone from anyone. But you need to be a bit pragmatic. And choose your battles. And try and look at things from different angles. Obsidian is clearly not trying to screw anyone over; they are clearly trying to make money. Obsidian has been kicked around for a decade. Do you think they are going to take the money, close up shop, and run for the hills? No! If they make this work it'll just be more Obsidian-made games for us fans in the future. Ultimately, they are doing what they are doing so they can continue to sustain a development cycle for future projects. It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies.
Not going to get into a language argument on the word entitled (it has multiple meanings and different countries/societies will use it differently)
I know Obsidian is going no where - but by voicing my nonacceptance of their behavior hopefully in the future they will either learn or ignore it - if they're better people they will learn if they don't then thats their consequences to bare.
Lets all be completely honest here - not one person here would have been upset in any way shape or form getting their KS editions early. Am I right? is there anyone who would have turned around and yelled at Obsidian for not holding it back and releasing it at the scheduled date?
But conversely there are people who are upset at finding out their backer status wasn't important enough to Obsidian for them to put them first above media. These people are allowed to feel slighted and disrespected and are allowed to voice their feelings on the matter. If Obsidian gave a crap about their backers they'll listen if they don't they wont either way their actions get judged.
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Yep, they sat around a table and thought "those scummy backers, we're going to screw them over by giving them their game on the release date. That'll show those bastards!"
Nothing I say is going to convince you so I'm done here, but people reading this thread can make their own minds up as to whether this situation really offends them.
*shrug* I backed the game because I wanted to see it made and I wanted the promised goodies. I got both. If I expected a lot more than what I was promised, I'm sure I'd have been disappointed, too.
I backed them because I wanted to help the guys who made Fallout in the hopes that the next Fallout game included them and gave them more freedom and confidence.
I'm not saying I hate them or I'll hate this game.
I backed my level because I really wanted to show them how much faith I had in them - but as the weeks and months trudged on I saw no engagement with the backers the beta was a vertical slice that never changed.
Meanwhile each week CIG with Star Citizen was interacting with their community making videos - doing regular live stream Q&A - showing off their work and the people who worked on the game - engaging with the player base. Thats why I boosted my pledge with Star Citizen to 2 grand without an issue - they respected me I responded in kind.
Obsidian ignores that - puts out a short video every now and then - had no drive to entice people here to the forums to get excited about the game no wonder they panicked and thought they would have needed a Media release to pick up backers. When all they really needed to do was engage with the fans, sure its an innocent mistake but its a pretty disrespectful one.
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I'm not angry. It's like when a toddler starts throwing a tantrum because you refuse to buy them the chocolate cereal; there's no point in getting angry. I'm baffled and saddened that Obsidian has to put up with these kinds of unreasonable demands, and a little amazed at how well they've dealt with all this Backer Drama. Nobody ever said you'd get an early media copy, but you want one anyway because you're a backer and you are *entitled* to it.
Pffft.
You do know the word entitled is not actually a dirty word - I mean sure people are spending a huge amount of time actually trying to make it one but its a very normal applicable word.
People are upset - whether or not you think it is justifiable or not. Obsidian will have to deal with that and as I said word of mouth counts, as does their treatment of backers.
What they said on their KS
We have wanted to go back to our roots and create an epic PC role-playing game adventure for years. But, it's been almost impossible to get funding through traditional methods for a game like this. The great thing about Kickstarter is that we can go directly to the people who love to play RPGs as much as we love to make them. Plus, we don’t have to make compromises with a publisher. We make the development decisions, we market the game, and we don't have to answer to anyone but you – our fans.
Our relationship with you can be even closer with Kickstarter. We can be more transparent with development and give you an inside look to what goes on day-to-day with the programmers, artists, and designers of Project Eternity. We want to give you a behind the scenes look at the game's development, and we have fun stuff planned like developer blogs, web broadcasts, dev chats, and much, much more.
Their actions however said something else entirely.
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What it is is that they made a decision out of best intentions, one which is not significantly deviating from the norm of many publisher AND kickstarted games. If you disagree and are disappointed, OK, I can understand that. I think it's baseless to try and argue that this is somehow quite clearly a calculated show of disrespect and distrust.
Granted it's not like they sat there thinking how can they screw over their backers.
But it does show that we meant so little to them that we were just some faceless mob who would be happy with being shoved aside and told "yeah, no, you guys did your bit you gave us the money now sod off and wait your turn"
How can anyone in the industry still to this day after everything that is changing not pick up on why you put fans first.
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"You didn't give me extra free stuff for no reason. Why do you hate me so much?"
It's not extra free stuff - I'm not asking for the 5,000 buck tier - just asking to be on the same page as the people that got review copies.
Start making fun of me all you like and posting memes - it doesn't change the fact that some backers are upset by this. They will be more than happy to take it out on Obsidian again I have no beef with other backers who are happy to come second - some people don't mind that. But I am permitted to voice my objection and have been doing so without calling names, using all caps or generally making an arse of myself.
Why do you think you deserve all this extra free stuff you weren't promised? You want an early copy for literally no reason. You weren't promised it, you weren't told you'd get it, you have no reason to expect to get an early play copy for this game than for literally any other game you buy.
As a kickstarter backer there were a very specific list of rewards offered. I backed, too; at no point did I assume I'd get ANYTHING other than what I was told I would receive for my donation. I assumed it would be a normal and typical game release with the addition of all this extra stuff that they promised us. What your feeling is a sense of entitlement, not something based on any form of logic or reason. You are demanding that they give us extra things--early game release--that wasn't promised just because you think you deserve it.
It's tiring.
If the game is finished enough to give away copies that function and work, then its able to be given to its backers.
No if's no buts no maybes - I would have been happy with having a locked down media copy and the rest of the game at release giving backers a chance to play through and not be potentially spoiled by media if they chose to.
Get angry all you like - but I am actually entitled to feel upset about this - especially when I have seen other projects handle their backers better.
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"You didn't give me extra free stuff for no reason. Why do you hate me so much?"
It's not extra free stuff - I'm not asking for the 5,000 buck tier - just asking to be on the same page as the people that got review copies.
Start making fun of me all you like and posting memes - it doesn't change the fact that some backers are upset by this. They will be more than happy to take it out on Obsidian again I have no beef with other backers who are happy to come second - some people don't mind that. But I am permitted to voice my objection and have been doing so without calling names, using all caps or generally making an arse of myself.
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I wonder why it's so important if somebody else in the world has preloaded the game a few hours before me. You know, they get to have the warm joy of sitting there with a preloaded game.
Ostensibly, it's about respect. OK, that makes sense. Or it would, if this was something consequential. Where do you draw the line between 'respecting backers' and 'some backers being petty and impatient for no good reason'?
The big thing for me will be how the real launch is handled. Will backer keys be distributed properly, and will the global launch across Steam and GOG work fine, so that all backers on all platforms, not to mention other paying gamers, can fire it up properly on Day 1? That's what matters.
I paid Obsidian so they can focus on making a great game. Not so that they bow to me and pretend they are my slave, and waste time "telling me nice things" when they should be working day and night to get the release done.
its important for those of us with **** internet. I can barely get 300kb down its going to take me days to get the game. If I were treated equally to someone on steam I could be downloading it now while at work so come release day I can actually play like everyone else..
I agree that preload is useful. That's why, as BAdler said in this very thread:
"I told Steam to start the preloading. We are going to be giving backers keys in the next few hours and if we didn't tell them to enable preloading we wouldn't have been able to enable it until tomorrow."
I assume handing out 70,000 keys is complicated business, which is why it's taking some time. Every KS I've been on has had problems with keys.
Maybe they should have started a week ago when they were handing out Media packages that the media are having no issues playing?
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Exactly. It's NOT about gaming media or streamers gettting the game earlier. It's about backers no getting the game at the same time of streamers and gaming media. It's like Obsidian distrusts their own backers that they can't understand or stomach a version without a "day one" patch for a few days of so. If you ask me giving backers the game early would have been an even more massive marketing scheme than just giving it to streamers, just like you said. They seem to forget that WE, the backers, are probably their most loyal and enthusiast fans and we want to share our enthusiasm with others. But if we have no chance to play the game we just do something else in the meantime. So giving the game earlier to backers would have been a win situation for everybody. That's what Chris Robert has already understood. That's one of the reasons why Star Citizen is THAT popular tbh. Putting backers and the fanbase first. Treat them right and they give back, short term and long term..
You get it - I don't mind people who have blind faith - hence why there is no name calling or attitude in this. I'm angry at Obsidian not the people disagreeing with me. I wish they were as angry as me, but I can respect them not being so. I won't bring backer tiers into it either because that doesn't help either.
It's not about the backers its about Obsidian being too used to the publisher model and not brave enough to truly embrace and respect their fans.
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I wonder why it's so important if somebody else in the world has preloaded the game a few hours before me. You know, they get to have the warm joy of sitting there with a preloaded game.
Ostensibly, it's about respect. OK, that makes sense. Or it would, if this was something consequential. Where do you draw the line between 'respecting backers' and 'some backers being petty and impatient for no good reason'?
The big thing for me will be how the real launch is handled. Will backer keys be distributed properly, and will the global launch across Steam and GOG work fine, so that all backers on all platforms, not to mention other paying gamers, can fire it up properly on Day 1? That's what matters.
I paid Obsidian so they can focus on making a great game. Not so that they bow to me and pretend they are my slave, and waste time "telling me nice things" when they should be working day and night to get the release done.
Actually yeah dude - preloading in some countries suck.
People can have downloads take a large amount of time so the earlier the better. However I am more incensed that people in the Media have had it for a week before backers, when they easily could have both had the early copies. It wouldn't have effected their media coverage at all in fact it would have helped it.
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I wonder if Cymelion is a troll or just toxic person?
A troll wouldn't have spent $140 blindly on a game - I'm a backer who is pissed off because I have been treated better and know the difference between being respected and not.
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That's normal and typical game-release marketing. There's no reason to think they WOULDN'T provide stream and review copies prior to release; in fact, most of the time not doing that is a sign that the company knows what they are putting out is crap and don't want bad reviews to hurt their first-day sales.
Actually by not releasing it to its backers and fans first - it shows they have no confidence in the game.
Because you know ... the people who bought the game would be playing it and streaming it themselves - then give the Media the same access. You would get way more vote of confidence by word of mouth - Already I am telling my friends who haven't bought it not to bother buying the game because they don't respect their fans.
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Still not released yet. It could crash and burn. There's also been press events where they've seen builds/video before backers. Seriously you need to settle the **** down.
Most videos are released at the same time to backers - And early builds are on CIG PC's at conventions so the media can't take it home and play for hours before backers.
Respect is what I am getting at here - Obsidian has very little for its backers it seems.
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@Cymelion I agree in principle but only by how far one distinguishes the difference between a consumer and a backer. Please provide evidence where they promised exclusive right to the game before official launch. When the Kickstarter began, the informal (and customary) belief was that you purchased/invested into the game early and depending on your pledge, the benefits you were guaranteed to receive. Nowhere was it stated that you were to get your keys earlier. You are NOT entitled to said keys earlier, as it was NOT inferred NOR stated in any press release that backers would get keys earlier.
I will concede, as mentioned earlier, there should be discussion on what backers can INFORMALLY expect from a studio/project they have backed. That is one where Obsidian will have to soul search on and in my opinion, should have spent a little time. Hindsight is 20/20 and Obsidian will mull on this, whether they set up another Kickstarter or not.
Common decency towards financial backers shouldn't be so little that this is to be "expected" you're correct nothing was discussed. However they also never said they'd be supplying free review copies with the ability to stream it to everyone. Or discussed that with fans.
The people who made this game are not novices to the industry they know your fans are your greatest asset - they should have done more to respect them in my opinion.
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The press always get the games first, that's how the gaming industry works,it's their job to play the game and then review it.
They released it to the media first because that's how the industry works. If they didn't there'd be no day 1 reviews and everywhere you'd see stuff like "no review means it's a another buggy obsidian mess." So if you want obsidian to succeed and for more games to be made in the genre you need slow your ****ing roll.Star Citizen - seems to be making money hand over fist - Largest Crowd Funded game ever.
75 Million Dollars to date - Chris Roberts does this by putting the fans first and he gets way more respect from the media - because they report everything he does even though they don't get review copies.
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Keep your knickers and/or pants on. It is a game. A video game.
You will get it this week, at least by March 26th. There is plenty to do in a day that doesn't require losing one's mind over a video game. Everyone is excited, pumped up to play.
This is not a life and death issue.
No it's a respect issue.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/03/23/pillars-of-eternity-the-first-half-hour/
I have spent most of the last week doing little else but play Obsidian’s Pillars Of Eternity [official site]. But I cannot yet tell you wot I think, as such brainthoughtss are under embargo. I can, however, stream or “let’s play” the first fifteen hours of the game. But I’m not going to do that, because it would be the most awful shame for you to have such things spoiled.
http://www.pcgamer.com/were-livestreaming-pillars-of-eternity-from-3-5-pm-pdt-come-watch/
Pillars of Eternity comes out later this week on the 26th, and our full review will be ready then, but we have the opportunity to livestream it right now. Tom hasn't played the game before and won't be our reviewer, so these will be his raw first impressions of it. Watch the stream through the embed above or go to our Twitch page and join in the chat. One note: Pillars is a story driven game, and this stream will contain spoilers for the first couple hours.
And a whole bunch more
https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=pillars+of+eternity&safe=off&tbm=nws
There was even a documentary released on media sites - I wasn't aware of.
http://www.incgamers.com/2015/03/pillars-of-eternity-saved-the-company-says-obsidian-documentary
If you’re interested in some behind the scenes details about Obsidian prior to, during, and after their Pillars of Eternity Kickstarter in 2012, the ‘Road to Eternity’ documentary has plenty. Part one appeared last week, and part two is now available to watch.
I’ve included both below, in case you fancy watching from the very start.
Effectively, Obsidian were not in a great financial state in 2012. They’d had a ‘next gen’ project cancelled, were forced into laying off staff, and (in the words of Obsidian’s Adam Brennecke in Part Two) were “treading water.”
This second part is generally more cheerful though, because it has a lot of the main Pillars of Eternity writers and designers expressing their delight at watching the Kickstarter money rolling in. According to Brennecke, the feeling was very much that this had “saved the company.”
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The backers got the game and the content at a discount and had a small degree of input on the development... If you want to get review copies of the game - it's not like reviewing games is hard - get to it.
Sorry just thought backers would be treated better ... After all if Chris Roberts can take time out of his day to put his backers first you'd think any KS developer would. I guess I've just been spoiled.
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It's not like people can play the game already, who cares who gets to preload it first?
And yes, I backed it.
http://kotaku.com/were-really-digging-pillars-of-eternity-1693310820
The media is playing it - before you.
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Meanwhile - Press get priority early access.
Screw the backers, who needs them anyways right? Now they can sell the game for profit since development funding was provided.
Cash before people guys, cash before people.
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PRE-LOAD is now available!
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted
I'm telling them the facts too.
The media got copies before backers - because backers mean less than media. If we meant anything to them we would have gotten the same version they got plain and simple.