IcyDeadPeople
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Posts posted by IcyDeadPeople
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How do you know they aren't using XP rewards each time you use a skill? That would also result in equal gains for combat or non combat skills.
How do you weight when someone uses soemthing passive, like stealth abilities, versus giving xp each time a combat action is taken. Furthermore, does this not still overly reward combat? Heck, it'd actually reward people being all super sneaky to get that xp, and then rewarding them moreso to go back and stab people. People are no longer encouraged to simply sneak (or simply attack) but to do weird metagame activities instead.
Considering the scope and depth of this game, I certainly wouldn't be surprised if there turn out to be a few ways for people to exploit or game the system who want to level up quickly.
However, these guys have a lot of experience with different game systems and I'm sure they can do a solid job of iterating on the game and balancing the character progression.
XP rewards for completing quests would seem to require the game to be much more linear in nature compared to what we've heard so far. XP for killing enemies would seem to leave out the non-combat skills.
The only other alternative I'm aware of would be XP rewarded for using skills, or possibly a sort of combination where XP is gained from using non-combat skills or killing enemies (combat skills). That said, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Obsidian has come up with some entirely new kind of XP / progression mechanic based on souls or something similar.
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Alan you are basically saying that nothing should happen randomly. It's a reverse sandbox, in fact its a straight-jacket. It would suck.
No, I'm saying a lot of thought has to go into setting up the game levels. Instead of just selecting the "Tough bad guy and henchmen" encounter palette and clicking it around without giving it any thought, they have to decide if there's a good reason for it being there. And sometimes that good reason is simply to provide a tough "random" encounter.
Perhaps Obsidian has decided to use XP rewards each time you use a skill. That would also result in equal gains for combat or non combat skills.
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Update 7 raises two concerns.
First, I am not immediately comfortable with the idea that combat and non-combat skills will be purchased separately. I like having to choose between magic missile and herbalism. I like being able to focus on one thing and get REALLY good at that thing, paying for that by lacking versatility, and I like being forced not to be especially good at things if I choose to have versatility. Versatility has value. Therefore, versatility should have a cost.
Maybe the game world will be designed such that this will still work, but at first glance don't like the idea that I can make an expert in non-combat solutions who is also an expert in combat solution.
Second, not penalising people for avoiding combat is good, but Tim specifically referred to getting XP for quests as opposed to getting XP for killing things. How does that work when challenges are overcome without those challenges being tied to a quest? Is that effort wasted? In some cases, perhaps it should be wasted: grinding low-level monsters probably shouldn't grant XP is there's no reason for killing them. But if I ignore the quests available to me and start stealing from people, does that mean I won't earn XP for that stealing?
I can imagine world designs where that would work, but I can imagine many more where it wouldn't.
I'm not saying these features will make the game worse. I'm saying they worry me.
I was happy to see the update, and I think this one has been my favorite, simply because of the focus on making the non-combat skills fun.
However, I understand and share your concern about using separate skill points or perks for combat vs. non-combat skills. That's a big part of the fun of leveling up for me, when there are number of different awesome options to choose from and I have to make a tough decision.
If we had a single pool of perk points for both, it would seem to be much more fun, or at least the replay value would be higher, as I'd be able to play very different character builds multiple times, focusing on any of a number of different skills, perhaps my first character might focus on piercing weapons and my second character might focus more on brewing poisons, for example.
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Well I do. That was the point of this thread, to discuss why I think the player house is cool, what would make it really cool, and what would make the game cooler. Feel free to add to what I've said, but I fail to see the productiveness of comments like "I can't believe I heard mention of the sims" and "you're likely to lose your head for making suggestions not in line with D&D" and "I don't like your suggestions." Furthermore, as I said a lot of the suggestions I made were based on what I read already about the game from the developers updates. This is not a D&D game as far as I know, and it's definitely not a FR game.
I've been playing D&D for many years and you can certainly purchase a house, a tavern, a castle, even rent an apartment in a slum, a tent, any kind of dwelling you can imagine. The same is true in every other pen and paper roleplaying game I've played. You might play a homeless character, a traveler who goes from inn to inn, or perhaps you decide to play a character who rises up from humble beginnings to buy property in some fancy part of town, like the "Cloud District." It simply adds more RP choices, more ways to make choices and take actions you think your character would take, and something to aim for as your character seeks to accumulate wealth and become an important person in the game world.
I agree that 2.0 million seems a bit steep of a goal just to add the player house, since in all likely hood it will be a plain premade house used for storing stuff, but either way I think its a cool idea and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Its not like you have to get the house. Just like its not like you have to use non-combat skills in game.
I don't think these stretch goals really correlate to the budget costs to implement them. Rather, they serve as sort of milestones with nice bonuses, along the road to whatever the ultimate funding level will be. Glad to see it looks very likely we will meet this goal. The one I'm hoping for most is official mod tools to be supported by Obsidian. If we get that, I'm certain there will be all manner of player houses added by mod authors, not to mention new quests, dungeons, and probably some great gameplay tweaks.
Meh, I loved how it was done in VMBL. Of course, you didn't have companions to deal with, so send those squatters down to the inn and tell them to get a room.
Do you mean the apartment in Santa Monica?
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Today's update reveals that a new faction will be added to the the $2.2 million stretch goal:
The $2.2 million stretch goal will still include a new Region, a new Faction, a new Companion and all the hours of additional gameplay, quests, NPCs and items that go along with those things. -
Raise your pledges, fan funding is the only future for real RPGs:
http://www.destructo...er-235292.phtml
(Publishers will get caught eventually)
I can only hope perhaps the publisher in question was proposing development of one of their own IPs, otherwise, it sounds like a deceitful tactic.
However, as for the concept of a large publisher using Kickstarter directly as a sounding board for a risky project, why not?
I'm sure there are lots of interesting projects larger publishers have considered over the years but rejected because they appealed to a small niche audience, or might have been perhaps too risky in some way. A Kickstarter could be a way for a publisher to appeal directly to fans to see if there is enough interest for such a project.
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The latest update seems to suggest a myriad of different cultures and factions in the game - very exciting stuff!
The cultures of Project Eternity are in a variety of different technological states. Though some remote civilizations are still in the equivalent of Earth's Stone Age or Bronze Age, most large civilizations are in the equivalent of Earth's high or late Middle Ages. The most aggressive and powerful civilizations are in the early stages of what would be our early modern period, technologically, even if they are not culturally undergoing "Renaissance"-style changes.For most large civilizations, this means that all of the core arms and armor of medieval warfare have reached a high level of development: full suits of articulated plate armor, a variety of military swords, war hammers, polearms, longbows, crossbows, and advanced siege weaponry. Architecturally, these cultures also employ technologies found in Earth's Gothic structures, allowing them to create towering vertical structures.
The most recent technologies seeing use in the world are ocean-going carrack-style ships and black powder firearms (notably absent: the printing press). Cultures with large navies and mercantile traffic are exploring the world, which has led to contact with previously-unknown lands and societies and settlement in new lands. Despite their intense drive, these explorers have been restricted from aggressive long-range exploration by monstrous sea creatures that pose a lethal, seemingly insurmountable threat to even the stoutest, most well-armed ships.
Some cultures and individuals place a high value on "strong" souls, souls with a "pure" lineage, "awakened" souls that remember past lives, "traveled" souls that have drifted through the divine realms, or those that co-exist with other souls in one body. However, the opposite is also true, resulting in negative discrimination and sometimes outright violence.Thinkers, spiritualists, and scientists of the world have theorized for thousands of years about the nature and purpose of this process, but others have turned to prayer for answer. Rather than illuminate the presumed higher purpose of this cycle, the gods have obfuscated the truth, at times spreading cosmological lies, pitting believers and empowered chosen agents against each other, and tacitly approving the prejudices of their followers to maintain power.
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A house, by itself, is not worth it, honestly.
What does a house involve?
A storage chest? That could just as easily be put in an inn or factional headquaters.
A place for companions to go when they aren't with you? Again, an inn or faction hq does this fine.
What else is there? Skyrim armour stands? Unlikely in an isometric. Buying/arranging furniture like Fable? I guess that could be an interesting minigame, but is worth investment? Anything else I can't think of? Whatever it is, if it is limited to "house" it can only be underwhelming. I just so happen to live in a house, and as such don't find them particularly exciting. Castles and towers are fun, though.
In my view, the point of a house is simply to enhance your role playing options, which is what this game is all about.
Perhaps you are playing an ascetic character with limited worldly possessions who resides in the dormitory of some religious faction. On your next playthrough, you might wish to play a character who seeks to lift himself up from humble beginnings in the poorer district of some town, accumulate some wealth and purchase property in the wealthy district, or even build a house for himself in the wilderness, etc.
A huge castle or stronghold would be fun of course, but based on the comments posted above, it seems unlikely. Even a more simple player house would still be welcome IMO, but I'm hoping for a future stretch goal with the potential for official mod tools, in which case we might see something more ambitious.
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I liked the NWN2 fortress, but I'm guessing the scope of it is too large for this project.
Can you explain a bit more for those of us who aren't familiar with NWN2?
What was great about the fortress and why do you feel it would be beyond the scope of PE?
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There have been some pretty amazing player houses created by Skyrim mod authors.
My favorite is Build Your Own Home
I'm hoping for the option to build a home through a sort of crafting system, ideally in a way that is highly customizable according to your character concept and playing style. It would be great if there is a way to incorporate quests into the process of building and expanding your home, or quests related to NPCs that might reside in your home.
Also always enjoyed the stronghold concept for higher level players in D&D, where multiple NPCs can serve various functions, be sent out on missions or protect your stronghold and perhaps accumulate gold, resources etc.
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I generally don't like factions much in RPG's, mostly because they feel like they give too much "control" to the player over the world (given that you're a single person +5~ companions), and seem to cross into strategy game territory somewhat.
What if you wish to play a character who feels strongly about a particular side of a war, for example? Doesn't it enhance the RP if you can actually take a stand and choose to ally with one of the sides? Or if you wish to play a character who follows a particular in-game religion, or a criminal character who joins a gang of ruffians or assassins, etc.?
It can be fun to play a loner character who does not associate with any factions, but I think it can also be fun to play a character who identifies with a particular group of NPCs.
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One thing about factions I've always disliked is the Magical Knowledge of Things everybody in the faction possesses.
I meet a group of Dwarves from Hippy HIlls somewhere in the woods, there's an argument and I end up killing them. Leaving no survivors or witnesses.
I race a very fast horse to the nearest village, only to be greeted by "oh, the butcherer, we don't serve your kind here".
Or in the chambers of the head priest, I promise to help the Paladins of Pure Skins, and suddenly everybody everywhere knows that.
There goes the infiltration plan when everybody is all "you're a bit too.... radiant for my tastes".
I see, yes it presents some challenges to incorporate reactivity in a way that does not defy logic, but with limited resources would you not prefer at least some reactivity, even if there were some sort of psychic grapevine nature to their information gathering, or would you prefer no reactivity at all in such a case?
If there is one type of faction I believe would be particularly interesting, I would have to point out towards a "Lovecraftian" cult - a dark gathering worshipping not some "evil" gods, but completely abstract, alien entities whom the human mind cannot hope to complrehend; a gathering of the lost, hopeless and desperate, no longer driven by ambition or earthly desires, but by the insanity brought about with the forbidden knowledge they now possess.
As such, I believe the bogs would be an excellent location for such a cabal.
Also, utilising the old alignment system brought about by D&D, I would have to stress that such people would fit the "Chaotic Neutral" category, rather than any notion of evil.
Last but not least, I believe that such a faction should NOT be joinable, or at least several exteremely severe plot requirements would have to be made. After all, the stress would be put on the mysteriousness and otherworldness of such a society, the depravity born not out of spite or immorality, but total, utter amorality.
Great concept, this sounds like a lot of fun. I'd like to see a kind of faction like this. I can understand why there should be some extreme challenges or roadblocks to joining or advancing within such a group, but wouldn't a good quest line for such a faction serve to introduce the group to the player, from the perspective of an outsider becoming involved with such a faction and perhaps becoming some sort of initiate in the cult?
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Does anyone remember the cleric alignments in Icewind Dale? I'd love to see something like that but faction based
Can you explain a bit more for those of us who haven't played the game?
Something along the lines of various groups of clerics that follow different deities?
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Yeah, so here is where it becomes ****ing painful. (Thanks, mod team!)
You need to send each individual edit to a moderator of that forum so that they can edit the post for you. So lots of PMs. Lots of moderator time spent doing something that isn't even necessary.
Oh wow, well thanks very much for clarifying!
And it seems very kind of the mods to go through the trouble to do this for us.
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I didn't see any mention in the Forum Guidelines, and couldn't find any sort of forum FAQ with information about this.
However, it seems that I can no longer edit posts that are more than a couple hours old. Is this standard, or are we only able to edit the most recent post we made? Or is there possibly some sort of problem with my browser (Google Chrome).
Apologies if this belongs in a different forum section.
It's some long-antiquated and poorly thought out mechanism from years past (KOTOR 2 era Obsidian I believe) to limit people trolling each other by saying something, getting a response, then changing their original post to make it look like the responder is a moron. Or something.
Of course, because of their short-sightedness in permanently implementing the edit time limit to combat a short-lived trolls, we all have to now put up with an artificial and annoying limit to polishing our posts. Hooray!
I see - this is a bit problematic for threads where we are attempting to organize and collect information. For example, I have posted a thread in the Project Eternity section with a goal of summarizing all the information revealed about the game's factions.
If I understand correctly, there is no way for me to edit this post to add more info in the future? Or do moderators sometimes make posts edit-friendly again?
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I didn't see any mention in the Forum Guidelines, and couldn't find any sort of forum FAQ with information about this.
However, it seems that I can no longer edit posts that are more than a couple hours old. Is this standard, or are we only able to edit the most recent post we made? Or is there possibly some sort of problem with my browser (Google Chrome).
Apologies if this belongs in a different forum section.
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Thanks for collecting all of these SnideCipher - there is a lot of great info here.
The best one:
@Steven We were actually contacted by some publishers over the last few months that wanted to use us to do a Kickstarter. I said to them "So, you want us to do a Kickstarter for, using our name, we then get the Kickstarter money to make the game, you then publish the game, but we then don't get to keep the brand we make and we only get a portion of the profits" They said, "Yes".Unbelievable! I wonder which publisher that was.
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Well, to start with I like the idea of having opposing factions like in Fallout: New Vegas (though it need not be so dualistic as the Legion/NCR conflict was) and the idea that you can really only gain favor with one if you oppose the other. It would also be nice to be able to join factions and rise through their ranks (though I'm of a mind that there should be prerequisites and limits to how far you can rise - beggar to master of three separate guilds seems absurd on the face of it). And I'd love it if companions had opinions about the factions, down to encouraging or opposing player participation in one of the factions (I'd even welcome the idea that they might leave the party if sufficiently upset).
Class-oriented guilds are something I'm okay with, though I feel they should be more profession-oriented and act more like real-life trading unions, with an emphasis on protecting the interests of that specific group rather than generic fighting, thieving, or spellcasting. Thieves' guilds in particular, as usually rendered in RPGs, seem terribly purposeless in my mind - what exactly do they do other than to highlight the fact that, yes, a rogue/thief class exists? Generally a guild requires some kind of sanction from the powers that be and I can't see any government allowing the formation of a guild that specifically promotes the "profession" of thievery. If you want something vaguely analogous to a thieves' guild your best bet is some kind of criminal syndicate, which has far different implications.
Thank you!
I completely agree. The concept of generic Fighters', Thieves' and Mages' Guilds are a sort of pet peeve of mine. Many games use these tropes as shorthand for little more than employment offices with some uninspired quests vaguely related to the player's class. If I never see one of these generic "guilds" in a game again it will be too soon.Even if the team were to include essentially the same tired employment office type guilds (which seems highly unlikely considering Obsidian's brilliant and compelling factions in past games), surely it can't be that hard to at least come up with an original name for the organization and some half plausible reason why they have banded together.
And any viable organization in a richly detailed world would likely have some friends and some enemies, no? If we can join some scholarly group of mages, for example, it would be great if we could choose to join an opposing mage faction - some necromancers or perhaps a coven of witches, etc. If there is a melee warrior oriented organization, let them stand for something other than simply "fighting" - perhaps they are a sect of holy warriors who fight to cleanse the land of creatures of the night, or perhaps they are a cruel gang of bandits and highwaymen, etc.
Looking at the map again there definitely do seem to be "major" regions and "lesser" regions, although I wouldn't say those necessarily correspond to factions. The Free Palatinate of Dyrwood is the only that particularly strikes me as definitely a faction name and not just a region, but the Ruins of Eir Glanfiath and White March seem much more likely to simply be toponyms.
In any case, I suppose the name "Free Palatinate" does actually imply the existence of another faction... namely an empire of some kind, since the name comes from the term "county palatine" which referred to semi-autonomous areas within kingdoms and empires of pre-modern Europe.
Interesting background on the term. I mistakenly thought it had something to do with paladins.
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So, I think Sawyer's focus on camping is right on the target. Gothic series are generally good at this but I'd like to see more depth in this regard.
There will be camping / survival features in the game?
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How important is lore fluff to you? Is it important? Do you feel it is unimportant?
Personally, I love finding books and other such items that you can read to find out more information about the history of the realm, other nations and people. I feel it really adds to the polished feel of the game and depth of the environment. Having said that, I always collect books and think of it as a mini game in a way. I like having somewhere to keep my collection.
I don't really see a distinction where any of the lore would not be story-related.
It's all one big narrative we are playing through - lots of lore books and side quests only serve to enrich that story and make it deeper and more interesting IMO.
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The poll seems a bit odd to me.
None (or at least very few) of the answers for the first question are mutually exclusive and the second question makes unjustified assumptions about the game world (we don't know, for instance, that any of those names corresponds to a faction).
I'm interested in a discussion about how factions would work in "Project Eternity" but the poll seems an odd way of going about and promoting such a dialogue.
In that case, what are you personally hoping to see in terms of factions and how the player will interact with them? I'm interested to know your thoughts and apologies if you found the poll options to be distracting from the discussion.
I understand the poll options are not mutually exclusive. In fact, personally, I would love to see all of these features implemented if possible - joinable factions integrated in to the main story, with deep questlines and in some sort of conflict with one another, follower and NPC reactions to player faction choices, etc. I suppose the idea of the poll was simply to ask which of these particular features do you find most important. Are there some faction mechanics or other features you'd like to see in the game I should add to this?
As for the regions on the map, yes, it's premature of course, we have no idea what the various factions will look like. Judging by the font size however, there do appear to be about three or four very important regions, that might represent political boundaries or some sort of kingdoms. And we know that the dwarf ranger in the concept art pic hails from the Southern Boreal region, where there is a faction of dwarves that is quite different from their cousins in the North. I will also attempt to keep this post updated as details are revealed about the various factions.
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I'm curious, from the marketing angle, which game hook(s) really drew people in to Project Eternity and encouraged them to back the Kickstarter. Expectations shown in the forum can vary widely particularly from which game preference people have (e.g. co-op preference from IWD/NWN folks) or party NPC quality and quest branching.
Given the developer pedigree, both PS:T and BG hooks drew me in, but primarily PS:T. How about you?
I pledged primarily because Fallout: New Vegas and Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines are two of my all time favorite games, and various members of the team worked on these. Having read the description on the Kickstarter page, and based on my experience playing past Obsidian games, I'm confident it will be a fun and deep role playing experience with a detailed game world and interesting NPC and quests.
I also enjoyed Alpha Protocol, KOTOR 2 and NWN 2, but not quite as much as FNV and VTMB. Never had a chance to try Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale and I've only played about 20 minutes of Planescape and Fallout 1.
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Tim and Josh have briefly commented on the various races and cultures in the game world, and provided an intriguing map with lots of settlements, towns and regions.
"We are creating a range that encompasses the recognisable (e.g. humans, elves, dwarves), the out-of-the-ordinary (e.g. the so-called 'godlike') and the truly odd (?!)," Josh Sawyer detailed. "Races and sub-races differ from each other culturally, but the races also have different physiological factors that can contribute to friction and confusion between them."Cain told me Obsidian plans to have unique traits for races "so that playing an elf doesn't feel like playing a human, even if they are both the same class".
Sawyer continued: "Within even the recognisable races (including humans), we are creating a variety of ethnic subtypes and nationalities. This world's races did not all spring forth from the same place, and millennia of independent development have resulted in distinctive and unconnected groups. For example, the dwarf ranger [concept art - posted in this article] is originally from a southern boreal region that is quite different from the temperate homes of her distant kin to the north.
"Additionally, Project Eternity's world contains some isolated races and ethnicities, but transoceanic exploration and cultural cohabitation have heavily mixed many racial and ethnic groups over time. This mixing is not always... peaceful. At times it has degenerated into genocide and long-standing prejudices are ingrained in many cultures."
Sounds like it's shaping up to be a rich and fascinating gameworld with diverse cultural and ethnic groups.
What are your thoughts on how the various factions might be handled? Are you hoping for factions the player can choose to join and rise through the ranks over the course of a deep questline? Do you want to see a range of factions that complement various playing styles such as stealth, magic, melee, etc.?
How about factions that are at war with one another, perhaps to the extent that if you ally with a particular group, you might become the mortal enemy of another, permanently locked off from joining the second group and completing their quests?
Perhaps based on your character background choices, it might be impossible to join certain factions, or maybe your follower becomes angry and leaves your service if you join a faction she hates?
How do you think the geography revealed in the map might influence the various factions and ethnic groups? There appear to be at least three or four very large central regions, perhaps these represent kingdoms in conflict with one another or in some sort of uneasy truce?
Regions depicted in the map:
- Free Palatinate of Dyrwood
- White March (name is cut off, looks like "White March")
- Ruins of Eir Glanfath
- The Pearl Coast
- Boreal Region (name is cut off from the map, it seems the first word ends with an "E" and second word starts with "V")
- Pearlwood Gulf
- Bay of Crowns
- Bael Marsh
- Thein Bog
- Lake of Drow Tombs
- Northern Coast Region (name ends with "DRA" - perhaps some sort of tundra region?)
Towns, settlements and keeps (ruins?):
- New Heomar
- Echo Bay
- New Yarma
- Godhammer Citadel
- Mercy Vale
- Geiran's Grasp
- Coldmorn
- Dawning
- Durgan's Battery
- Stalwart
- ____el's Gate Citadel (first word is cut off)
- Gilded Vale
- Raedric's Hold
- Loghome
- Eina's Rest
- Kindle Vale
- Arrey of the Cloven Wheel
- The Court of Bowing Ashes
- Isrul's Well
- Maiden Falls
- Defiance Bay
- Sorceror's Tomb
- Dyrford
- Twin Elms
- Solace Vale
- Midwood
- Telaneir
- Brass Crown Tower
- Forked Vale
- Madsdam
- Steel Crown Tower
- Girrar
- Dunlan's Keep
- Hill's Edge
- Thein
- Airana's ____ (second word is cut off)
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- Free Palatinate of Dyrwood
I completely agree. The concept of generic Fighters', Thieves' and Mages' Guilds are a sort of pet peeve of mine. Many games use these tropes as shorthand for little more than employment offices with some uninspired quests vaguely related to the player's class. If I never see one of these generic "guilds" in a game again it will be too soon.
What do you want to see as new stretch goals?
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted · Edited by IcyDeadPeople
More than anything else, I'm hoping for the possibility of official mod tools.
That will greatly increase the replay value.