anubite
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Posts posted by anubite
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It would be interesting perhaps, if only weak health recovery potions are in the game -- they're there to help new players in the first 10 levels of combat or so, but your party rapidly outgrows their use as an emergency aid. But I suppose that's a bit too detailed of a request, this is far too early in development to make such design decisions.
But I do hope the developers consider impactful potions. I also hope they do not balance gameplay around potions.
I don't want potions removed from the game. But I want them designed such that they're almost like an ability, one you can cast very rarely, but one that benefits you in a distinct, strategic way.
Many new RPGs are forgoing potion use altogether, rapidly replenishing your mana/life when you leave combat, or adding... God of War style health globes. I don't like either system at all.
I also don't care for "food-based" systems. Especially in Fallout 3, where you're pausing the game to chew on some bread to recover just enough life to kill some radscorpion? That's not only immersion breaking and silly, it's dumb. Food items in those games recover so little life you need to have a feast every time your health gets a dent in it. If there is a "food system" I'd like my character not to have a bottomless stomach, thanks. Balance the food around someone consuming only one or two food items before/after battle, not thirty or more.
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It probably will require multi-core processors, since more and more low-frequency, high-core-count computers are entering the market by the day (looking mostly at laptops/ultrabooks). The benefit of using two low frequency cores is far higher than using a single high frequency one (lower temperature, more simultaneous processes).I doubt this game will require the use of multiple processors, unless the Unity engine is far worse than I understand it to be. This is an IE knock-off, not Dwarf Fortress.
If the engine can support it, and their intention is to support current-gen low-end systems, I'm certain it will support multiple cores
. The game will rely a lot more on CPU than GPU, seeing as things like advanced AI & path finding is all handled by the CPU.Sure, I pity people who are using AMD processors this generation too, but I'm just saying - BG2 has sufficiently good path finding and it runs on 200 MHZ processors. Its AI isn't the greatest, but not even Arkane bothered to put any effort into giving Dishonored's guards AI. If a high-budget stealth game isn't going to invest in AI, I doubt we'll see any processor-hungry AI in PE.
Since Unity does support multicore, it's not a big deal I guess, but I will be very surprised if this game can't be run on a tablet (in theory anyway, I doubt the control scheme will lend to playing it on a tablet).
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A predetermined number of companion characters will be written regardless of whether or not there'll be romance content.
In all likelihood, all these companion characters will have multiple "paths" through their personal story arcs.
It really can't be rationally argued that having romance paths for certain characters would be a waste of resources, without simultaneously arguing that dynamic companion characters in and of themselves are a waste of resources.
You can't assume such things. This is still a "low budget" game, even if it magically hits 4.0 million dollars tomorrow. You can assume at best 2 paths per companion, maybe three, maybe, but I honestly doubt it with the number of companions being considered.
Romance is a dangerous thing and it shouldn't just be assumed to be a given, or that resoruces aren't being "wasted" when it is developed.
I say leave it up to the modders after the game is released.
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I was thoroughly confused when they announced this feature, as I'm not sure it fits too well. I mean, I liked the various pubs and places in BG, but a fortress? I did enjoy being able to acquire a "lair" such as that brat's castle, or the druid grove, but those were mostly little side-areas you could do one or two fun quests for, they were zones you'd already cleared of monsters repurposed as a non-combat zone, not something designed from the ground up to be your "fortress".
I'd rather always be on the move, than have a place I'm encouraged to return to. To me, RPGs are about travelling. A sRPG like Fire Emblem or something might invite you having a "fortress" but I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense here.
If nothing else, I'd like this fortress to be something you TAKE OVER much like BG2. This shouldn't be some heirloom or ancient thing you find lying around in the wilderness and just set up camp there, that just seems too contrived. I'd prefer if this 'fortress' of sorts was just a hub that had some interesting quests associated with it. I'm not so sure I care about the concept of "upgrading" it - unless it's going to be used as an end-game "hold out against a bazillion enemies attacking your fortress" kind of deal.
Nor am I particuarly interested in playing a "castle dress-up game" - not that I dislike such games, but it just doesn't feel like it fits within the scope of a low-budget IE knock-off. I'd rather dialogue branch 10% more often than have a house that I can change the color of the drapes or decide whether to raise or lower the draw-bridge.
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I doubt this game will require the use of multiple processors, unless the Unity engine is far worse than I understand it to be. This is an IE knock-off, not Dwarf Fortress.
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Which is more fun? A 5 minute potion for +5% to critical hit rating, or a 10 second potion with 100% critical rating?
The 5 minute potion might provide more critical hits, but I would think the latter potion would be more fun and strategic.
Which is more fun? Drinking a dozen potions while fighting a boss? Or perfectly managing restoration skills, your party's positioning and its non-restoring support skills? I would think the latter.
That's what I'm advocating.
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Romance is fine so long as it is tasteful. What qualifies as not-tasteful? Anything from BioWare circa KOTOR1 and beyond. Even BG2 was kind of pushing it, though the romance in BG2 was clearly an optional, tacked on affair and all of the party members had sufficient depth without you having to bed them.
All of the greatest RPGs I can name off the top of my head do not have romance. They might have sexuality in them (such as the clubs in VTMB), but 'romance' implies a kind of relationship that is inappropriate for most game narratives.
In a best-case scenario, romance is an added thing that is optional. It does consume developer time to create, but I'd like to think it's time that would otherwisse be spent nowhere better.
Since PE is going to be mod-able, I would prefer if the game had little/no base romance in it, as I'm sure many deveoted fans will be happy to create romance mods like they did for BG2.
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I realy don't understand thouse guy's that don't whan't romances, if you don't simply don't start them.
Even if I don't like romances putting them in the game is good becouse people who want them will have them and people than don't whan't romances simply can not starting it and they will not have romnace isin't that logical ?
I guess not for everywon
As much as I like BG2, it's hard to take the game's plot remotely seriously when you engage in almost what amounts to ERP with Viconia if you decide you'd like to help her overcome her bitchy attitude. Romance can make a game fall off a cliff, as noted by most of BioWare's recent releases - which I think where all the romance-backlash is coming from. People don't want a BioWare RPG and all of Obsidian's great work has come from situations where romance took a pretty heavy backseat (though romance was not necessarily devoid from the game).
KOTOR2 - Exile can romance a wide array of characters, to interesting effects, but the core story does not change significantly as a result; the Exile also doesn't get a "happy ending"
PS:T - Romance plot core to the story, but also, not a "happy ending"
FO:NV - Never played any of the DLC, but any romance here I believe is extremely shallow and does not impact much of anything
NWN2:MOTB - NWN2's core story was quite possibly one of the worst I've ever encountered - I don't know who was responsible for the single player story or characterization, but I hope it was just a bad day for Obsidian; MOTB however was glorious, the romance in this expansion contrasts starkly with the base game's saturday-morning-cartoon writing
Fallout/Fallout 2 - Any romance or love in these games is put waaaay in the background of the game, very little impact on anything
Erm anyway, I could go on, but to put it succinctly: Right now we're in a BioWare vs Obsidian environment. DA2 was needlessly oversexualized. DA:O's core story was needlessly tied into the sexuality of its characters. People care about romance in games because you honestly just "can't" initiate romance with a character, because games have limited content, it's likely you can ONLY romance character X or you can do nothing else of note with them. It's seldom you can cultivate a deep friendship with a character that you can also develop a deep romance. I'd rather we were able to cultivate a deep friendship (or animosity) with all of the characters in the game, rather than be restricted to befriending two or three characters, because you're afraid smiling at that other guy will result in triggering a romance arc.
Silly romance also hurts the core story. We need to think of tone here. If you can get your fiendishly ugly dwarf to seduce some arrogant elf, and much of the game's story devolves into this relationship, it'll be hard to enjoy whatever believable story might otherwise be present. I also don't usually enjoy situations that result in "harems" - where the protagonist is surrounded by several voluptuous or beefy females/males adoring them and draping their bodies overtop them. It's really just a mood-killer.
Granted, I can name RPGs that have done relationships and sexuality well. One might be Persona 4 - notably though, because the ENTIRE GAME's theme is about sexuality. All of the character conflicts are based around the characters realizing they're bisexual/gay, have lost their first love, have gender identity-issues (tomboys wanting to be effeminate), etc. and the game is designed such that these relationships and conflicts matter and impact the core story. DA2 or ME3 are examples of games where sexuality is just a marketing ploy and a result of tastelessness. If you want romance in an RPG, you need to design the game such that it not only makes sense and "feels right" but also connect correctly with the existing themes in the game, and feed into said themes.
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Obsidian needs to support a variety of playstyles and levels of familiarity with game systems and content.
Sure, I don't disagree with that. But Skyrim's potiion systems has to be one of the worst in history. And the 'potion finger' syndrome is something I was mostly talking about with Diablo 2 -- 'potion finger' is a worst-case scenario, since PE is supposed to be semi-turn based, or round-based real-time combat, I doubt this situation will occur, but it was still worth mentioning in the original post in order to hopefully remind the developers how situations can degrade quickly when designing a game.
I don't see any problem with the potions in the Infinity Engine (other than what was caused by the slot based inventory system). Too be honest though, I actually like the "enter your inventory and use potions to your heart's content" from Fallout and the Elder Scrolls games. You'll still have to carry potions with you, which is limited in number, but it does allow you to deal with possible unfair and cheap encounters if you save your potions for them.TES's potion system only works because you can procure an extremely finite number of potions from vendors. It's a pretty lame system, especially the non-healing potions, which provide mostly useless benefits (+60 to your conjuration skill for 5 minutes?). Sure you can get an "edge" with these things, they do their effects, but they're not fun nor do they invite any kind of strategic depth, say - like a potion that turns a character into protective stone, or gaurantees critical hits for a short duration, or makes a character's fire damage freeze targets in place for a short time, or anything really. Potions that last less than 5 to 10 seconds (or only several rounds) and provide powerful, battle-altering effects, are more impactful, which is important when developing strategic gameplay. Skyrim's potion system is lazy and insipid and really something to be avoided.
I guess I would be fine if PE just used BG2 or some other IE game's potion system/potion balance (those systems at least work, to a degree), but I think the potion system is one area where PE can innovate from the older style IE games, rather than copy.
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Well, thinking of Baldur's Gate II the stat restrictions usually were reasonable. Like a strength of 18 needed to use a composite bow which offered a plus to damage or an intelligence of at least 9 to read a scroll or some good wisdom to get good results from the wish spell.
As PE should become the successor of Infinity Games and not Dragon Age I won't expect the problems you've stated.
In contrast to you, I do hope we get any of the well known stats --Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom, Intelligence, Charisma-- but not a simplification.
Certainly, I don't want to imply that I think PE needs 3 stats, just that, the more stats you add, the harder it is to create a sublime system where all stats are useful to all classes, which I think it is something all RPGs should have. A warrior might want to stack only strength, but I feel it should be viable for a warrior to be exceptionally wise, and benefit in some manner because of it - while still functioning like a warrior should.
If all stats aren't useful to all classes, then suddenly, the challenge of min/maxing a character is reduced. Furthermore, the possible number of creative builds is reduced.
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Potions and balance? Not a problem if the enemy AI is written to take advantage of it too. There--balanced.
(Obviously doesn't work on creatures, but that can be balanced other ways. /shrug)
If I know anything about games these days, you can't expect developers to create AI more dynamic than a vegetable. As much as I like Obsidian, I'm pragmatic here. It's better to just ask for a good potion system, over AI that might try to exploit your use of potions.
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BG2: Health restoration potions cheapen encounters. If you have them, you chug them and that's that. If you don't have them, especially in the early game, you're ****ed. I recently replayed BG2 last year and although I still love the game, the potion system is just lacking. The game would be more fun if it were balanced around the fact you probably won't have potions.
Skyrim:
All of the potions in the TES series are horribly designed: They last 60 to 300 seconds and give you some marginal, usually un-impactful buff (+20 to skill X for 5 minutes). They aren't fun to use and seldom make a difference in a fight. Is there ever a moment when you say to yourself, "I better go stock up on frost resist potions for the next journey!" Nope. They're just a hassle.
In BG2 non-restoring potions are better than Skyrim's, but they still don't feel that impactful. They're "fire and forget" - you don't critically time their use at all.
The major issue with potion systems can be seen in a game as old as Diablo 2: They take up tons of inventory space, you're often just using them to restore life in critical moments where you screwed up, and boss encounters need to be balanced around them. They slow down combat and feel cheap, most of the time. Your finger just sits on the potion key and you sometimes sleepily spam it, even if your health is full. That's a worse-case scenario though, IE games never had that problem.
Non-restoration potions are often horrible because they're designed to last a long time. They can't possibly be that good, or they'd break the game.
Most RPG games that come out never solve the issue of potion management. They either make them worthless, or a crutch.
I hope Project Eternity can put some conscious effort into developing a sensible potion system, but allow me to offer my own suggestions:
Make all non-restoration potions "big gains with short durations" - potions that gaurantee critical hits, make you immune to cold damage, make you attack 200% faster, etc. - huge increases and powers - but they last only a very short time (less than 5 seconds). They are uncommon, expensive, have long cooldowns, and/or be risky to utliize. Players should feel like they are using potions as a conscious strategy and not a button you just click when you're doing bad.
I don't really like having cooldowns on potions, but it is one common solution. A better one might be, to have a "potion tolerance" system like the witcher, where you can only drink a certain number of potions in a day, or you will critically poison and kill yourself.
Another system is present in Path of Exile, where potions are not transient items, but permanent equip-ables - magical flasks that refill when you defeat enemies. Potions get stats on them and are balanced around the number of drinks you can procure from them per number of kills made in combat.
But please do not use the "traditional" potion systems we're familiar with. This is something we can improve upon, but most game designers neglect to.
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First of all, I'm going to put this here, because it pertains from where I'm coming from, please take a moment to notice this game's passive skill tree and the ridiculous amount of freedom it offers:
http://www.pathofexi...ive-skill-tree/
Secondly, I'm going to state something I hope Obsidian is aware of:
Dragon Age 2 had an atrocious equipment, stat and character progression system.
1. Classes only had 2 useful stats to utilize
2. Equipment required each 2 high stats to be equipped. It would look something like this:
Wizard's Robe
Requires 12 Intelligence
Requires 12 Wisdom
If you were playing a mage in DA2, any and all equipment you would want to use would look like this. Meaning, when you level up in DA2, your only option is to add an equal amount of stat points to Int/Wis. You have no choice in the matter, or you cannot equip things you find.
This system is absolutely atrocious and doesn't make any sense. It means you cannot actually develop a character in the way you want. You are forced to distribute your stats in a manner the designers expected you to. This also means you could not make a mage character with high strength, or even unusually decent strength.
Path of Exile's stat sytem, however, is absolutely beautiful and perhaps, ideal.
1. There are only three stats (Str/Int/Agi) [this is not the ideal part, but simplicity does allow for easier balancing]
2. Stats confer weak increases (If you have 300 STR, which is quite a bit, you only get about 600 life and 60% increased physical melee damage, which isn't much in the game)
3. Stats are required to equip gear - but you need a marginal amount of a stat (an end-game piece of +armor equipment, intended for a Marauder/STR user, only requires between 120 and 160 STR), freeing up your distribution of stats, but forcing you to make decisions on what you wear
4. All stats are implicitly useful to all classes, at least to a certain degree (DEX gives evasion and accuracy, STR gives life and melee damage, INT gives mana and energy shield (another kind of life)); you may not want high amounts of all 3 stats for your class, but you could build a character from any of the 6 classes that utilizes large amounts of any 1 stat; there is no inherent reason not to take dex or str as a Witch, as they confer useful bonuses you can create a build from
To summarize: In Path of Exile, character development is skill-based and fluid. Attributes are a means to an end, but finding gear with high +DEX, even if you're a pure spell-caster, is not horrible! In-fact, it can be something a Witch might really want (due to how attributes are required to equip certain pieces of Witch-related gear).
I think my most fondest memories from the IE games is their flexibility of character development. You can pick a class, and kind of build it any way you want. Granted, Path of Exile lets you take a Marauder class and turn it virtually into a Witch class, so IE games were far more constricting than that - but even so - class and skill-based games need to allow for flexibility. Thus, I would like to outline three principals I hope Obsidian will follow through with, when balancing the game's core design:
1. All attributes can be useful to any class. Intelligence as a stat might raise mana, spell damage, and/or other mage-y things, but it might also raise critical strike chance or magic resistance. Not only that, but intelligence might be a core requirement to pick up a rare, legendary blade a melee class might want to utilize. Or, to get the most out of a melee figher's skill, it might require a high amount of intellect.
2. The point is: Classes should be able to hybridize. RPGs are often about min-maxing, but a good RPG allows players to successfully and "fairly" hybridize their characters. A "pure" class should be good, but there should be a convincing reason to play and utilize a hybrid class; they should not be "inferior" to pure classes just because. The best, most balanced way to do this, is simply to make hybrid vs pure classes different;not better or worse. There should be reasons why a hybrid melee-fighter spell-caster should cast spells and use melee attacks; there should be a reason for such a hybrid class to get as much spell damage and attack damage as they can, not focusing too much on either (though, perhaps a player should be allowed to build that way if they choose to).
3. Classes should have roles, boundaries, guidelines; but there should NEVER be a reason why you cannot or should not try to break these roles. A priest SHOULD be able to specialize as a warrior-fighter, and succeed in some manner. The extent the game allows a player to do this, the better.
4. Gear should be designed such that there is a variety for everyone. Gear for pure min/maxers, gear for hybrids, and gear for inbetween-ers.
What I think many of us find fun about CRPGs - at least one aspect of fun from them - is buliding characters and exploiting mechanics. People think they are having fun when they play the game their own way and find unusual ways to succeed. Please, give us as many options to customize our characters as much as possible. Let us make them unique. It should be an uncommon thing for two players to "wind up" with two identical parties and play-styles.
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Obsidian isn't ready. It takes a lot of logistics to prepare a serious kickstarter project. There are legal issues, game design issues... you need to decide what reward tiers are, how they will promote the kickstarter, how much it's going to cost... even if Obsidian were keen on Kickstarting something in December (which I'm sure they weren't) they'd probably still need a month or two more to prepare. If they have decided to kickstart, we'll probably hear about it before July. If they aren't going to kickstart anything (sadface) we'll know for sure by then. After july... well they could kickstart something, but it seems like they'd be far behind the wave at that point.
Right now the iron is hot. Everyone who's an RPG fan is buzzing over kickstarter. Wasteland 2, Baldur's Gate 3, The Banner Saga, Zombie State... Obsidian should strike fast, but they can't rush stuff.
If Obsidian doesn't decide to kickstart, it will be for very good reasons. But I think Kickstarter presents a really strong opportunity. For one, your game is 100% risk-free funded (provided you manage your time/money well and estimate what kind of money you'll need correctly). You're getting this money from a relatively small amount of people (So far, less than 60k kickers for Wasteland 2 or Double Fine's adventure) so the potential of selling 60k more copies of the game after it's released -- at the VERY least is pretty good! So not only do you stand to bring much needed capital to Obsidian, but you now have a product which you can put on the online marketplace and reap the benefits of for years to come - ESPECIALLY if you make it a good game. Which will happen, if you cater to a dedicated niche audience. Baldur's Gate, VTMB, KOTOR2 all have very strong cult followings even today, with new people being convinced to try these games today. If you make a good niche game, you will make money from it using a quality, DDL DRM-free system. Just not the kind publishers want (instant gratification).
The marketing aspect is also unncessary. Hype it up for a month on kickstarter via viral stuff, produce the game, then put it on Steam or other DD enterprises. Having it on the front page for a few days or putting it on-sale is all the marketing you need to sell 100k+ copies of a good game.
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Modding AP would be interesting, especially since Sis is mute ... modders could easily enlarge her role in the story, I think, with a little work. But beyond that? I don't think much else can be done with this game, the stealth mechanics don't seem salvageable to me. At least when I compare this game to Thief or Hitman Bloodmoney. I mean, shadow operative, really? And the levels are just too linear, not enough routes to complete missions (ala Deus Ex). I doubt there will be a community patch - I mean, Mass Effect was much more popular at release than AP was, has numerous aspects that could be improved, uses the same engine... and I'm pretty sure there aren't any mods/community patches for ME.
. The game will rely a lot more on CPU than GPU, seeing as things like advanced AI & path finding is all handled by the CPU.
Romance and friendship?
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted · Edited by anubite
Speak for yourself please, I am thoroughly sick of porn and romance is just another kind of it. Both of these things are done to death in video games and I cannot even be bemused by either at this point. Give me another hypersexualized Mass Effect inspired game and I will vomit.
I want characterization that is "believable" and "captivating". Porn and romance are things developed by people who are out to make a quick buck or have no taste, shame, and cultiviated sense of beauty.
Finally, let's use some existing examples here. Please name romances/sexual relationships Obsidian has helped create or added into their games. Were any of them so spectacular you can honestly say you want more of that? I mean, I enjoyed KOTOR2, but none of the romance was especially deep or evoking. Some aspects (like the Handmaiden's mother or Visas' master) added some interesting context, but those kinds of romances don't seem to be the kind people want.
It sounds to me like they want BioWare-style romances. Which is fine, if they want that kind of thing, but Obsidian has never written something quite like that before. Do you honestly expect them to deliver on the kind of romance you want? I don't think so.
What Obsidian has delivered on, is great characterization in other respects. All of FO:NV, or Kreia from KOTOR2, or all of PS:T -- Obsidian does really well when its characters have a deep philsophical backbone, or when they're involved in a conflict which is wrenching. Romance doesn't suit any of that, usually. The romance I hear people clamoring for is the kind that happens when you're having a walk in the park or in a fashionable night club, which I doubt PE will turn out to be.