Makumba666

Ok, everybody forget it. Topic closed. Thanks Desmodeus again. Trolls can continue. Without me. Have fun.

Boerer, You are forum troll and I never feed you kind, sorry. Welcome to my ignore list. And about 5 years old - a person who acts like Eric Cartman and uses "I know but I never tell, cause I do not like your message, but I still post garbage in your topic" - calls somebody 5 years old! Astonishing!

Desmodeus, Thanks I will try that. Boeroer As I said - please go elsewhere. I never will take any advise from persons like you. You are not obliged to post in every topic you know.

Hi all, First of all, please if you were going to tell thing like "all classes are powerful, it depends on your play style" - please go elsewhere. I know it without your notice. Fact is that Obsidian never leaves it's games alone - always changes them and changes in worst side. If some skill/race/whatever is too powerful and fun it should be overnerfed and turned into boring weakling. If I correctly understand Obsidian's philosophy, they prefer everything around to be grey and boring. Last time I was playing this game long ago and I know there were super mega nerfs making certain classes not only weak, but almost unplayable. For example once druids were good, after 5.0 they nerfed it into oblivion, after removing storm's stun ability - turning it into total feces. I have no time to perform scientific research and read about all classes they changed and what they changed etc. etc. Anyway strategies that worked long ago probably will never work with latest build. So I have simple question: is there any powerful class still left after all those overnerfs? When I say powerful I do not mean some average Joe - I mean any powergaming build left or only 50 tones of gray? Thanks in advance.

Gronmir, And one more thing - football is a sport, it is something ongoing. POE is a game, offline game that seems (at least they say) have final version. But it never ends. With each new DLC we get absolutely new rules. I hate when game does this - for me it is cheating. Thats why I better play games that do not change rules.

thelee, I don't know how they actually are making decision... I just supposed way that seems realistic for me. But despite why they are doing it, fact is what they are doing - i.e. changing everything in game. Max Quest, And what you think "rebalancing" means except changing? Yes I hate changing games or "rebelancing" what you call it. I call it cheating. And please name a single game by other company that changed as much as POE did? To my knowledge there is none (I am not speaking about remastered or enhanced editions). Even enhanced BG or BG II do their best to keep all spells/skills as they were in original. Nothing is ideal and D&D ruleset had it's weak points too, but still developers kept everything intact. Deadfire is not deadfire anymore - it is a mod, made by some guy, who loves hardcore game and spamming thousand useless abilities. I think this practice is unfair and any good game developer must be ashamed doing this.

Gronmir, Please lets stick to truth. Yes, football rules change too from time to time, but thanks god not every year and changes are not game changers, just some details to improve game. compared to all football ruleset changes are about tenth of percent - no more. What we have here? Game-changer changes and with every DLC. Tactics that were viable in the past do not work anymore. What the hell is this if not gamer changer? If you do not believe me, here on this forum are some character builds... try them. Changes are so significant that old builds do not work anymore - i.e. they are ineffective and you should use them if you want your character be some below average lammer. How so? Why other games do not change rules? Generally speaking when other companies release DLCs they add (!!!) to existing set of rules (new abilities and skills) instead of modifying old ones. Of course they correct bugs, but that is different matter. Obsidian acts in different way: if somebody whines on forum some class is too strong, or "my god, this ability is too much fun to use", they add this to their todo list and in next patch ability is dramatically nerfed. Some may say they are doing well by listening customers, but I think this is worst thing they can do. Somebody finds some ability too strong? - let him use mod that nerfs it, if he wishes. And when you listen forums there is thousand opinions and you make thousand changes with every DLC. And at some point your new rule-set is absolutely different than it was initially. I loved POE 2, loved game it was... but this one - I don't know what is it. It is new game - cheap way making new games. I personally hate this way and I think there are many people like me.

Gronmir, How is it bad? You need proof? Suppose I started playing chess with a friend and now he says we are playing domino. What would you say, is it bad? In RPG games there may be hundreds of skills or spells and each of them may be strong or weak or useless. When you make a game you make some rules set. Why for example fireball does X damage, why not Y? Because developers decided so. Of course they had some arguments to do so. Now another developer comes and says - no, fireball must do not X damage, not Y - it must do damage Z. Of course you understand, that will change fireball value either increase it or decrease. And it means players that were ignoring fireball, considering it too weak will now add it to their build, or remove if it was nerfed. And more skills/abilities/spells you change more changes of builds have to be made. Finally all those changes turn game into something new. Compare 1.0 and 4.1 - they are totally different games now. Thats what I oppose. Why? If you wanna change everything create a new game, not rape already released one! And to my knowledge the only company that does it is Obsidian. I will avoid Obsidian games in the future at any cost. Thats why!

I'll be damned, there are some people whom you can never explain anything, because they do not listen. From very beginning this topic was about one thing "why you change game rules?". That was and is main topic. Everything else - nerfs of spells etc. etc. are examples. Main problem is not nerf, not difficulty or any other bull**** - main problem is inconsistency of game rules. I can spend time (hours may be) on examining what is new in Visual Studio, or 3ds max, but not in some game. Is it damned OS? Can you just leave everything as it was on initial release (except correcting bugs apparently)? Obsidian can not - it constantly changes rules and character build that was viable for version 1.0 are piece of **** in version 4.1! THATS the problem. This is not the same game. It has same name, but plays absolutely differently and you have to use different abilities /skills you were using in version 1 to make strong character. Thats what this topic is about "DONT CHANGE GAME RULES!". But as far as I can understand this is useless, because many Obsidian funs like the way they rape corpse of released game. I think this topic is useless - better I find other games, that do not change rules with every release of new DLC. Bye everybody.

I understand there are people and always will be who love extremely challenging games - something when you die on every corner and even weakest enemies are as strong as hell. And to fight them you have zillions of useless abilities, which require tens of minute to finish one simple battle. No, as you probably guessed I am not one of them. Having tonnes of useless abilities does not mean fun for me. And besides turning each damned battle into chess game is what I really hate. I prefer to spend my brain's horsepower on my work in rl, than on some stupid game. I am not against complex games, but at least their rules should be apparent - all formulas used to calculate damage or whatever should be known. But what we have here? Actually player has to perform damned tests to find out how one or another spell/skill actually works and how it is affected by different factors. Very often they work not as description says. So the only way to get information (except doing everything yourself apparently) is to study forums - and only then you can decide should you for example take damned smoke veil or not. And above that are game developers, which make things even worse - they change game rules and it is unclear does skill/spell hat worked in version 3.0 for example works same way in 4.1? You call this situation normal? I want to play a game - not perform scientific study! Thats why I say they ruin everything. I understand many people here - They call what Obsidian does improvement and are ever thankful for that, but I am sure there are other people too, who like me hate when developers change game rules. And concerning fun Manveru123 said it best: My thoughts exactly. Boeroer, First I want tell you misunderstood me - I never said any spell/skill were made totally useless. Totally useless means something that does NOTHING. Of course they do something (damage, buf, debuf etc.) - but they became very weak and any sensible player would pick some other spell/skill. Thats what Obsidian do - if some spell is really useful, they immediately nerf it, because it may be too fun... and fun is what they avoid at any cost. You play game to forget rl for some time, to be somebody you are not... - some ordinal guy with ordinal life. Obsidian wants you to play fantasy game... but not feel powerful, no - just be ordinal guy from fantasy world. If you win fight it surely must take at least 10 minutes (hours are better, of course) and then you will be happy. My exact problem with what Obsidian does is I am not a masochist. As for nerfed spells, Manveru123 already answered you. There many other spells and abilities that were nerfed.

People you misunderstood me - I mentioned cipher only as an example. The same with sorcerer spells - many spells that were useful were nerfed in patches. I understand when MMO creators do such things, cause they have to keep balance between different classes - i.e. players, but what is the matter with offline games? Why nerf ability, cause it is too much fun? That is wrong approach. I would suggest (if changes are inevitable) to change other abilities to make them fun. I understand, it may seem just and fair on the first glance, but this is a game, remember? This have to have some fun factor. Instead Obsidian does everything to make every class dull and literally unworthy of required time to develop character. You enjoy something, you find it fun? We will take it away and make everything dull around you, cause that is the way our games should be played. I am sure this is Obsidian's motto. Manveru, Your advice is good for only Obsidian made games - no other game developers change game balance in patches, they just add - NOT CHANGE. To my knowledge Obsidian is the only company that does it. For example, take DOS - they release patches and add-ons too, but keep game same, because maintaining game integrity is much more important, than balancing issues. This will assure every person that played the game played SAME GAME, not absolutely different ones. Obsidian does not understand this. I think instead of waiting a year I would choose game from different game developer, that does not ruin everything.

I think tinkering with already released games should be stopped, because it ruins everything. To my knowledge Obsidian is the only company that does it - you can not see such things in Skyrim, Witcher... or many other games, cause developers understand - keeping integrity of the game is much more important, than "rebalansing" issues. And as for experiencing magic afresh, I have no desire to do it, because it is absolutely different game. Spells now have different damage, game mechanic uses different formulas etc. etc. Learn everything anew? And remember what was after each patch? "I need this spell... it is good... ooh no, they nerfed it in 2.0... and then changed in 3.0 and again they changed it in 4.0... damn them". I better play some game that has constant rules. When I say game is unplayable I mean I don't know which abilities\spells to choose, because they changed everything billion times. Thats why the entire game is a big mess and it is terrible when you need to read patch notes just to play game. By playing I mean playing efficiently and creating strong character - not some garbage, which still can win game.

Hi all, This topic is about "rebalancing" games- i.e. making them unplayable. Why not leave them alone? Of course I understand when developers correct bugged abilities, which do not work as they were supposed to work, or add new ones, but why you change other skills/abilities? This changes everything... this is absolutely different game now! Obsidian "rebalanced" game called Tyrany in such way, that now leveling up must be avoided at any cost, because higher level you become weaker compared to any mob you become. This happened here too. It seems Obsidian can not just stop and not ruin everything. I played first version of POE II and liked it. Of course there were some bugs and stuff, but I still enjoyed game. Now I try to replay game and it feels absolutely different. Classes I was playing are absolutely different now. For example Cipher - never actually was uber class in POE II, but now it feels absolutely nerfed and piece of... ****. Spells/skills that were really useful are either removed or nerfed and are now something below average. Can anybody explain why Obsidian is doing this? why mess everything and turn good game into a piece of ***?

It helps alot to rob people, especially at the beginning of game. Some people say you can have unique items by stealing. Anyway it seems 8 sleight of hand is enough, but with about 18 mechanics and 20 stealth, this is damn impossible. P.S. By the way I performed some experiment and probably have an answer. In short: it does not do a sh... anything. First I chose some path with guards and measured how long my character can walk without detection. Then I added 1 point to stealth and measured it again. It added about 2 meters. Then I added 1 stealth points to rest of my party and guess what - it added nothing. Not a centimeter. I don't know about dialogues, but outside them party assist does not do anything.

Hi all, I am kinda confused about party assist. I have rogue character and of course he needs 3 damned skills to be developed, as I want him to be what rogues are in other games. He needs mechanic, sleight of hand and stealth. Of course it is absolutely impossible to have all skills. And Obsidian made it in way it is absolutely useless to have sleight of hands without stealth. Additionally you may need stealth for battles as it gives nice attack bonuses, but it is absolutely impossible to use it when there are enormous vision cones and absolutely outrageous hearing distances. And here I tried to use party assist. For test on level up I added 1 point stealth to all my party members. My main character stealth is 3, party members - 4, so it shows total 7. But I see this number only during level up. And it simply does not seem change anything. Before level up I had 2 stealth, after it 7 (supposedly) and it does not change a sh... thing! So, I am totally confused, does that party assist works outside scripted interactions? And if it does how it is possible 4 points of skills do not make any change? And is rogue a viable character at all? I am asking this, because you can have high mechanics without have a rogue in party (for example a cipher) and if all bonuses from being rogue boil down to a single stealth attack at the beginning of fight, it simply does not worth it.