Joral
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Posts posted by Joral
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Interesting side note, the "move at full speed while in stealth" was added by Bester and Sensuki because they wanted to move faster in stealth. No one ever had to "ask" for it. They also added the "enhanced" increased game speed because they wanted to move across maps even faster than you could with the built in increased speed.
I can't remember where the faster movement stuff came from, but it definitely wasn't me. I even tried to slow down movement speed before I enlisted Bester's aid.
Thank you for the post. I was starting to wonder if Karkarov was correct and that the walk toggle was just an accident. I am glad it was not. What are your views on having a walk toggle in the game before modding ?
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Did not read everything, don't know if the matter about the toggle is settled yet or not. But i must say "i agree". Running everywhere is silly. Being able to walk at times is a key component of roleplay to me.
-Hey, have a beer? Want a beer! *running everywhere in the tavern*
-Not a Red Bull? *squinting*
-Hu? Why Red Bull? *Doing push ups and running*
-Yaaah.... Nothing....
So i want the toggle allowing to walk too (cyan circles would be great too actually
).I am hoping that the matter is still being considered. These are features that, even if not the whole community atleast a large portion would like to see this feature in the game, even if they never use it. I am still hoping that we can convince them to add the feature in.
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the player sneaks through a dungeon filled with traps, he walks through an unexplored outside area
Or in a city market looking at various goods.
It definitely adds to the game far more than it takes away.
. Sorry it took me a while to respond been playing TToN (Probably like most of you), Sadly having to stop playing until they patch. -
Did the principle designers of IE Mod not include walking on their own because it was too hard to do or because they just didn't think to do it, being outside their "intent"?
Because they didn't care so they didn't even try. I think it was some loud voices on the codex that got them to do it. How hard was it to code? Don't know, but it couldn't have been too hard or Bester would not have done it as he didn't want to put a ton of effort into it.
Here is the thing though. That was Eternity 1, on Unity 4. This is Eternity 2 with Unity 5. Just because it was "somewhat easy" on the old version doesn't mean the same is true now. We don't even know if they have made walking animations for the PC's, and if they haven't walking basically is a no go.
They have walk animations for the PC's they have been showing them of in some of the vids. Such as slowing to a walk while walking through water or while walking on sand etc. And they have admitted out-rite that it would be very simple for them to add in.
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You should. It's not just about the programmer putting the walk toggle in, it's about the designer figuring out how it should work in edge cases (does it work in combat? if not, is walk status preserved after combat ends? etc.), it's about the UI designer adding it to the interface (even if it's only a key bind they'll need to account for it in options menus), it's the QA testing it to make sure it works with every possible character, etc.
Solution for the programmer / designer in question: Download IE Mod, take a look at at the code regarding the walking toggle, integrate it into POE2 - done. It's already there, folks. They do not have to invent the wheel a second time. Just give the player access to it... (it's an RPG, so please let me roleplay.)
Anyhow, I think Jerek is right and this discussion is going nowhere. Saw the same thing happen in the old thread(s) where people asked for a walking toggle and some folks came in and opinions clashed. I think an optional toggle with no gameplay mechanics attached to would be perfectly fine for both camps here. Don't like it: don't use it. And until a developer comes out and proves me otherwise, I cannot believe that such an option would me a massive undertaking to implement - even more so because it got modded in to POE1 with no proper tools or easy access for modders to do really anything with the game.
Josh even said "it would be so minor an adjustment it would take no time at all" He just doesn't see a point. I never took part in the forums in PoE1 as at that time I just assumed the game would be the way it would be. But now knowing that this is how you ask for features, and at this stage is when they get done. I just want a complete game this time. After Tyranny (Don't get me wrong I really liked the game) and how short and chopped up it was, I just want to make it known especially for an RPG that ANYTHING that adds to Immersion, Walk Toggle, Neutral colors for Neutral NPC's, Game and story length among many others, STRONGLY ENHANCE THE GAME. If someone with more experience with forums like this would be willing to tell me how to put up a poll I will.
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Here is the thing, I am going to break some real world business analysis on you for a hot second.
You are a company so your goal is always one thing, profit, AKA: money. How do you get money? By making a product your customer wants to buy, and you do that by making features/functions of your product that are desirable to your customer. So where does walk toggle come in? Here we go...
Everything you do with your product requires a number of resources that all come down to what we like to call cost. Let's say the cost of the walk toggle is 10 work hours. Trust me it is more than that, A LOT more. That 10 hours costs say... 1000 dollars, again it would cost a ton more than this in reality. So it costs 1000 dollars to put this thing in game. Who needs this thing in game? What percentage of my customers will care that I made this thing happen?
With the walk toggle I feel safe in saying it is say... 5% of customers. Actually probably less than that.
So the question isn't just cost, now it has become "What else can I do for 1000 dollars that will benefit more than 5% of my customers?" As long as there is any answer to that question putting in the walk toggle is a poor use of resources, and it is that simple.
Do you understand why the walk toggle isn't going to happen/is not a real issue to Obsidian now?
And that is your opinion. Though you seem to be forgetting also from a business perspective that this is a kickstarter/backer project and that those who backed said project and funded its over 4mil budget, also have a right to request features. The fact it is a feature that you personally don't seem to want/like (going by the tone of your post) does not mean it is a feature others would dislike to see in the game. IE Mod one of the most requested features was the walk toggle. Some of us would like it for immersion as this is a roleplaying game, and as such the reason I backed the game. I loved the first game. The only thing that felt off after having played BG1/2, PT, ID and Even fallout 1/2 and Tactics was the loss of a walk option. Once I found IE Mod my enjoyment of the game grew even more. Hence the reason I have backed at the DCE level, and plan to increase my pledge during development. I even have TToN of my computer (I backed it too), and am playing it now.
Please remember that the feature is already in the game. All that is left to do is give the players the ability to turn it on and off at will. Obsidian even said the effort to put it in would be so minor it could be done without a problem. And as to the point that you don't believe that that Obsidian would care as its a numbers game is the reason for these posts to begin with. I and from what I can tell more than a few others would love to see it implemented. And it is at these point during development that you need to ask these things. and as to your 5% statement, 5% of over 4mil is nothing to scoff at.
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Cities: Running would put guards on "Alert" status making it harder to do anything illegal or even in certain areas call in reinforcements and begin following the player.
Yikes. I am otherwise all for a walk toggle, even though I wouldn't use it myself, because it seems like something that would make a portion of players happier in the game without making it any less fun for people who don't care to use the feature. This suggestion is basically the opposite of that. People who enjoy RPing walking aren't all that likely to even experience being followed by guards because they're inclined to walk anyway. The people who have to deal with it are going to be the power gamers and the big group of people who RP a bit but aren't total sticklers for realism, and it's just going to make them angry that the game is forcing them to stare twice as long at the screen to get anything done in a city area. If the walk toggle is to be mechanically useful rather than just an appearance difference, it seems like it should be something that gives players who want to use it an experience they'll find fun rather than making players who don't use it do something they find boring.
As I said he wanted some suggestions , I just want the Walk toggle for immersion and roleplay.
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Dodging is visual feedback and clarity for the Player during combat. Of course, it isn't necessary because floating text "Miss!" works, or in the combat log (that feels like a Twitch stream chat window, i.e. you need to pause n' scroll a lot in the log to keep up with it).
Walking is only for roleplaying in pretty much any game out there. Only game I can think of where they found good usage of it is in Assassin's Creed (Hiding/Blending). It's also mostly useful in slow escort missions or missions where you need to tail someone (Which are also some of the most frustrating missions because the PC walks faster than everybody else *shakes fist*).
I remember in one game (a JRPG, don't remember which one), some random NPC I talked to commented something like "You're the kid that runs around everywhere?"
and ever since then (I was a kid) it made me think, "Wouldn't it have been cool if there'd been a reaction if I hadn't been running?". Because, you're sticking out like a sore thumb in a crowd. If I was running/jogging in my hood everywhere (everywhere), people would start to recognize me as "That's the dumb weird kid running around everywhere" wouldn't they?Anyways, what are some good uses for "Walking", except Roleplaying?
- Stealth: Combined with ordinary cloth (<- Condition), you'd blend in in a crowd and that assassin looking for you won't approach you and try to kill you. Instead, you might just walk past him. Surveillance, recon, and infiltration. You're in the Guardroom, dressed as a Guard trying to listen in on a conversation. In the region you choose to walk around, if you run around Guards will start to get suspicious or wonder why you're in such a hurry everywhere.
- Wilderness: Wild beasts won't just instantly attack you, but instead just observe you (I'm thinking Giants and Mammoths from Skyrim, who just observe you and attack if you get closer). Fast movements may upset or make them feel threatened, Running = They attack.
- Cities: ???
some more examples
Cities: Running would put guards on "Alert" status making it harder to do anything illegal or even in certain areas call in reinforcements and begin following the player.
Or as you said with wilderness maybe it would force comabt from certain missions instead of talking to you they assume you are going to attack and react thusly.
It is hard to come up with alot of reasons and put them in a list. But as you also said it IS a Roleplaying Game and as such being given the option to roleplay with or without other effects is in and of itself part of the immersion. Add to the fact the animations are already in just means giving the player a hotkey-bind to walk outside of cutscenes. there does not have to be a design made for the UI just a bind option in the options-keybind section.
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So dissent with your opinion and pet issue is trolling?
You're assuming it's just as easy as adding a hotkey. K. Being honest, I don't know the resources required it would take to properly implement a walk feature, but knowing what I know of the software industry and having followed RPG development for more years than I want to admit...It ain't as easy as you think it is.
It would be cool to be able to walk, but it's not a game breaker, not is it a high demand or high concept feature central to gameplay. If they can get to it, great. But it's still C-level at best.
No I assumed trolling due to the fact you did not come in and comment that you are not interested in the feature, or think it useless. You immediately stated that the developers should not listen to any of us who want the feature, and then immediately stated how much you love big head mode.
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I sincerely hope that Josh, Adam, and the producers continue to believe that a healthy majority of Eternity players are ambivalent about this issue and that it shouldn't take priority over more important programming, animation, UI Art, and QA tasks and should remain a C-level priority.
PS
Anyone who doesn't appreciate the awesomeness that is Big Head mode probably doesn't like the 90's and NBA games, and so therefore can't be my friend. Cuz that's my jam.
Though I am assuming you are trolling, I will respond. The fact that the animation is already in just means adding a hot-key toggle. This does not take away time for anything else, and the point that at this stage of the games development is when this stuff SHOULD be done or considered. Hence the point of a game being backed and the backers making suggestions and requests as to what they would like to see in the game.
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Josh said Walk Toggle was a stretch goal in one of the streams. I believe he said it was the 7 million stretch goal specifically.
He said 6mil. and that he wasn't serious. And this REALLY should not be a stretch goal.
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Well hopefully both the walk toggle and the neutral color circles can be moved a little up the list then
. There seem to be more people who are interested in these features than you guys thought . And thank you for responding to this thread . After the livestream I doubted that they would even be considered.-
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I'm guessing that it's a UI design issue. It wouldn't explain why it can't be a button toggle, but the modern UI design usually hates things that won't be used by most people. Why waste screenspace for something 99% of people won't touch, or will touch once and then again to turn it off?
So why not just make it hotkey-able? (That is too a word! :-P ). I don't understand why they can include bobble-head mode but not a way for my guys to walk, dammit!
That is what we mean by a toggle
. And I am of the same opinion on the bobble-head mode, used it once had a laugh never touched it again. However with the walk toggle (IEMOD) I use it alot. Sometime when going through an area for the 4th 5th time I will say F'it and run but then I go back to walking.-
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Actually, Saer's latest response is a little (very little) bit optimistic:
Thanks for the feedback! We'll investigate this and see if it's possible to include later down the road.Given that the situation there is similar to how it is in PoE ( pc characters walk in cutscenes), AND given that walk toggle was modded in PoE, we all know it's possible.
I do not understand the heavy opposition to it, either.
Yeah, the fact it is not there seems to be biting them in the ass right now. And the comment "You can use a controller" seems to be pissing off the community even more :S. Its sad (though true) that they are criticizing both PoE 1 and Tyranny for ignoring it now as well (Steam posts). I really hope that Obsidian changes there stance on this feature as well. Especially since in Tyranny case, there was not much of a modding community due to the poor reception of the game and NOT the lack of interest in the feature. I personally really liked Tyranny with the exception of the 3rd act and a couple chopped up story lines in the 2nd act. Overall I would love to see an expansion or a sequel to the game (As long as it is not chopped up for replayability) as I enjoyed the story.
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Slighty off-topic, but Tides of Numenera was released today.
And guess what? It does not have a walk toggle either. Oh, you can do it on the console if you lightly tap the stick control, but if you play on PC and use keyboard and mouse? Nope.
I remember being upset that I missed the Kickstarter for it. Then I just decided to wait and see till release. And then all those mixed reviews came out... and still I would have gotten it. But today I read that you can only walk in that game if you play it on the console.
So, last straw. I am not buying Tides of Numenera.
Given that I backed Deadfire and its expansions, this, of course, won't be true for PoE 2, but, dammit. That feature is important to me. It's important to others. It's minor. The framework is there. It's not imposing on anyone's playstyles.
So, wtf is the trouble to implement it in the the modern rpg renaissance games????!
/upset custumer
They have confirmed on the forums of TToN that the walk toggle WILL be added in a later update. My Forum name over there is Taziel since my standard Joral was taken and I also had a discussion concerning the walk toggle there. copy pasted response "There is no walk toggle in the game as of now with mouse/keyboard, but I've added it to our list of things to look at for a future update."
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Found it at 4:36 on the final all day Twitch live stream.
Honestly, I don't think he was harsh at all. Very honest and reasonable.
I'm sure they have a tremendous amount of things to tackle and accomplish right now, and stretch goals being added, and multi-classing, and etc. etc. It's low on the list.
If anything, he acknowledged that they know they can do it. If they get time or bandwidth.
Also, the perception is that only a few passionate people want it (e.g. folks in this reply chain).
Perhaps if we're able to either:
(a) have another poll similar to during the beta of PoE1, or
(b) hit $6M in post FIG backing
Overall, thrilled for Pillars of Eternity 2 in general. And incredibly grateful for the team at Obsidian to involve us in the evolution of the game!
As am I. I had thought about the poll idea a while ago but the forums were not as active, and I was sure it would be ignored. I did not know about the poll for PoE1 and was surprised to find out about it. It was more about that every other question got a solid and calm explanation and reason, And this question did not.
I am also hoping that it will be modded in if they choose not to add it as a feature. And since it is already in the game, the option to have it as a toggle would have made sense. I do not know why he was so harsh with his statement. It almost seemed like a personal hatred for the feature rather than a "its a low priority right now" statement.
Heck, I was laughing with him. Until I saw this thread, I didn't think anyone would seriously ask for such a "feature" and that had to be a troll/joking question about how slow the party already moves.
Walking is about immersion, and immersion is what I'm after when i'm playing an RPG. It'd be weird if what I'm saying now would be a surprise to a veteran gamer/developer such as him, because if you ask most any hardcore roleplayer, one of the first things you'll hear is to walk everywhere it's appropriate to walk.
Besides Pillars, I don't remember the last RPG I played that didn't have walking. Some have been more annoying about it than others(having it be a button you hold instead of a toggle), but they've all had it.
I agree it is all about the immersion, it adds to the game. And yes, again the point of a toggle would be so people who want it could use it. And those who do not, Do not have to use it. The fact that they have stated it would be so minor to add, makes me wonder why they did not in the first place. *Edited for grammar I just woke up and am not fully coherent yet*
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Hopefully they will put up a thread saying how far along the stretch goals we are still progressing on the backer portal soon
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Well, to maybe lighten the mood a little: This option has been modded into Pillars 1. Deadfire seems to get more modding friendly, so maybe some talented coder can mod this feature (and others, like the cyan circles) into the game.
Still, I find it a bit sad that they take the time to include a big head mode - which for me is a useless *take a look, chuckle, never use it again* feature, but discard a walking toggle this harshly. Especially since it seems to be so simple to implement, as everything needed (animations etc.) will be in the game anyway.
I am also hoping that it will be modded in if they choose not to add it as a feature. And since it is already in the game, the option to have it as a toggle would have made sense. I do not know why he was so harsh with his statement. It almost seemed like a personal hatred for the feature rather than a "its a low priority right now" statement.
I am not trying to cause an argument, I love Obsidian games. During the live stream all other questions got actual answers and explanations, but this question got dismissed with disdain and condescension. As a backer and fan of Obsidian games I was just stunned with the tone of response. I still do not know how to react. The only thing I know I want to do is try and show that there are more people who are interested in this sort of feature, especially in an RPG. Though after seeing and hearing the tone of his response and the look on his face, I doubt it would matter.
However I plan to try. so I will keep commenting, and asking people if they would like to see a walk toggle in the game. And I will try to set up a poll once the forums become more active with people interested in the game. So please keep commenting on this thread.
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Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment!
Most likely. However I believe I am already at that point. I will wait and see.
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Don't despair, for those who are interested (sounds like more than we may have realized) let's just keep the conversation going. Seems like it's built into the engine clearly in scenes shown, it just hasn't been prioritized as an active toggle...yet
Agreed, Thank You. *Hope*
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Yet they added big head as an option. Maybe someone else can get a better response
. Going for a walk, have a good day guys. Thanks for listening. -
Yeah.. Josh just said that we shouldn't expect this feature in the nearest future = (
The way he said it was a little harsh as well. Considering I have Backed the DCE I have no idea what to think right now, going to just walk away for abit and think. I personally would have thought the option since they said it would not be difficult to add in would be atleast considered instead of dismissed that way.
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*Sigh* I got a joking answer on the livestream, 6mil goal *Sigh*. Apparently there are not enough people interested in it to add it to the list. Kind of not the answer I think we wanted
.Basically the statement was " it is so far down on our list of things, so no"
Ok well that kind of took my mood and tanked it.
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).
and ever since then (I was a kid) it made me think, "Wouldn't it have been cool if there'd been a reaction if I hadn't been running?". Because, you're sticking out like a sore thumb in a crowd. If I was running/jogging in my hood everywhere (everywhere), people would start to recognize me as "That's the dumb weird kid running around everywhere" 
. Going for a walk, have a good day guys. Thanks for listening.
[Beta Patch] Vela, girl, where are you?
in Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Technical Support (Spoiler Warning!)
Posted · Edited by Joral
Same Issues for me as well. Mine was an import from PoE1. Everything is fine Eder finally has the right backstory, Vela is on the beach. but once I get to the ship she is gone again
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Edit- Ok, weirdly enough when I switched to the deck after doing some stuff she was there having a talk with Sef, but I reloaded and she was gone again.