Dhampyre

[Jediphile, May 19 2006, 02:17 AM] Actually, the Atris vs. Handmaiden fight is not cut content - it is there in the game if you play male Exile. What was cut from that scene, however, was Brianna fighting her sisters, but that too will be restored in the TSLRP, apparently with the option to defeat them in non-lethal combat, which one of the sound-files seems to point to. Actually bro, The Atris-Handmaiden fight we got to see in the game as male exile is different from the one originally concieved to be in the game. Much like the cut Atton-Sion, We had a Handmaiden-Atris fight to the death which was later cut like the Atton-Sion scene but unlike the Atton-Sion scene, We got another version of Atris-Handmaiden where Handmaiden loses and gets saved by us. [Jediphile, May 19 2006, 02:17 AM] To be honest, I'm actually glad they dropped that idea. It didn't make much sense to me that Atris would take over all of Kreia's goals just like that. I do regret that she did not become a party member to replace Kreia. That would have been so cool. No arguement there, i was merely stating a related fact along the cut-content topic. [Jediphile, May 19 2006, 02:17 AM]Have I not done so even in your absence and without being asked? You have most certainly bro and i thank you. (w00t) ------------ Hekate sorry for the harshness of my previous post, had a bad day, forgiveness. [Hekate, May 19 2006, 06:56 PM] i think they count as love interests because they are seen as having feelings for the protagonist. Without getting hung up on the details, since they are important figures in the story, how they feel matters. Yes but neither the male exile nor the female exile display any particular affection for Atris/Sion, it is one sided in both cases. All i am saying is thet with Atris we have a deeper understanding of why and how. With Sion its "You made me the way i am.... You took my master from me, i hate you, i love you". Bam Wham Thank you mam. Doesn't sound like a great story. [Hekate, May 19 2006, 06:56 PM] You don't add info on how Atton's romance option is good when you speak of Visas' romance, nor do you speak of Mical's merrits when you are depicting Brianna's, do you? *Hekate is unhappy * I didn't say they were bad but compared to the male exile romantic stories, its not as interesting. Atton's is good but again its based on infatuation. Atton is attracted to both the male and female exile due to the fact that he/she is able to go on living without letting the burden of so many deaths weigh him down. Don't forget the exile has taken many many more lives than Atton, and Atton took a fair share of Jedi Lives as well. The female exile story only modifies Atton's infatuation into lust and eventually love. Mical on the other hand is dull as a character and his love story is pretty dull too. "I didn't have anyone to train me so i'll just sit here in this monster infested enclave and hint that i have ties to the republic initially and then all else about that is forgotten". [Jediphile] The Atton-Sion fight was cut. And in any event, I seem to recall that Atton is player-controlled during that fight and that he can win it, which also makes your point moot. [Hekate] i did not know Atton could be player controlled. If he is then basically he has to win since if he doesn't the game goes to the "game over" screne since every party member dies. i don't understand how they could have his being mutilated then killed by Sion part in there since he would have to win... *confusion* Atton was player controlled in the cantina on Narr-Shadda as well while fighting the twin-suns. When the exile goes to Jekk Jekk Tar. So yes, it is completely possible. [Hekate] What i am saying is regardless of the outcome and of whom Exile loves, if any, Atton and Sion facing off is significant because of how they feel about Exile, what their characters represent to the story, and for their own vlaues as NPCs. Err?!?!? What? [Hekate]What difference does that make to the fact Atris, who is supposed to have loved Exile for at least 10 years, decides she is going to kill him? Sion, as we are later told, has personal reasons for wanting to kill Exile. The two motivations and the proceeding understanding of their behaviour are significantly different. That is exactly my point. They are both nuts and love the exile who doesn't love them. Repeating myself for the tenth time, Atris's version is done with a better story, Sion's isn't. [Hekate] i just replayed that scene and Atris had just said "We are not the ones who taught her/him" to which Vash responded. Atris was speaking of herself not being to blame for Exile going to war against the Council's decree. Later in that conversation, as Atris is going on about Exile rather passionately, Zez-Kai Ell says "What would you have done with her/him Atris? Be mindful of your feelings..." which means he saw and/or felt Atris' feelings for Exile were too strong. Hence my point the Masters were aware she felt that strongly thus their not dealing with Atris' feelings makes for a disturbing plot hole I beg to differ. That only tells us that the jedi masters knew of Atris's feelings, it doesn't mean exile knew of her feelings. No plot holes here. Move along. [Hekate] i do not know what you mean by his self-denial. He feels guilty but i don't think he has any delusions on the matter nor about himself. Or did you mean self-denial in the sense of he denies himself things he needs as in self-deprivation? And i am not so sure it is impunity either. He is the only one who actively voices to Exile he does not like Kreia and he tells Exile she can't be trusted. Atton is not in self-denial but he definately does feel guilty for what he has done. He doesn't trust anyone and has a good sense of who can be reliable and who can't. However that stands with both male exile and female exile. I don't see how this is being used to debate which exile is better? [Hekate]i was pointing out things that would likely occur as a result of Exile and Bao-Dur getting involved. One would certainly assume they would gravitate into having a romantic relationship because of attraction rather than for having calculated the benefits. At the end of the day IT WAS cut out. Lets not play with Ifs and Buts. Bao-Dur is NOT a romantic interest in the game period (male or female exile) it may have been originally concieved for him to be but it was cut out because of the already extremely long list of romantic releationships attributed with the exile. It was swapped for the much better and intellectually sound relationship of war veterans. Even female exile does NOT have any romantic links with Bao-Dur, if that is forced into the relationship it ruins it. For that reason and to avoid any confusion Male Exile makes a better choice. And finally on a lighter note, have any of you noticed a pattern here? Hekate Quotes = Red, Jediphile Quotes = Blue and apparently My Quotes = Cyan. I protest! Keeping in sync with Star Wars and the Force i insist my Quotes color be changed to Gray!

Oh lord!! I leave for a week and i find the very reason i decided to join this forum and create this topic to be the hot discussion. Ok folks, i am jumping back into this pool. [Hekate,May 18 2006, 06:02 AM] Usually i'd be inclined to agree about the love happens without a reason thing. Love is love, it just happens. End of story. But i felt just as lost about it with Atris as i did with Sion over the why. There was nothing personal about it in the least. Not one little memory, not one comment refering to it in anyway... To me, it felt thrown in there with the purpose of adding 'a hot Jedi chick' to the list of women who lust after male Exile. What the hell is with this Sion/Atris BS? Neither are proper Love interests in the game. Sure they both show some romantic feelings to the exile (sion if female, atris if male) but using that as an arguement to make the exile female is quite absurd. Having said that Atris's reason for finding the exile attractive is more convincing and more believable, her background story for romance with the exile is deeper. Whereas on Sion's part its pretty much lust and nothing more. Ohh and Hekate, Pardon me for being away for so long but i just have to bring this up since i never got to answer you. female exile 4 : male exile 2?? Thats the romantic relathionships counted??? Dude? wtf?? Female Exile has Disciple and Atton (sort of its not really love, more like infatuation with Atton). Thats 2!! Count em 2!! Are you adding Sion and Bao-Dur?? wtf? If you are adding Sion, Then we can Add Atris for Male exile.....and Bao Dur?? There isn't even a hint of romance there. Although with Bao-Dur we do get the problem of misunderstanding their relationship. Exile-Bao-Dur have a strict old war buddies relationship, and Bao-Dur looking up to the exile if the exile is female can be confused for romance which IT IS NOT. So as it seems if you choose to add Sion/Atris to the list, its 3-3 each for male/female. Disciple, Atton and Sion (if you insist on bringing him in) Visas, Handmaiden and Atris (same as above). Look at those two lists and the relationships. The male exile relationships are more detailed, have better stories and Visas-Exile is the best romantic twist in all of KoTOR II period. [Hekate,May 18 2006, 06:02 AM]It seems Sion was supposed to be alot more important in the game, all the antagonists actually, and Sion vs Atton was supposed to be a major event in female Exile's game. That battle wouldn't be as meaningful if it is just Atton who loves her as opposed to both Atton and Sion loving her (not saying Atton sacrificing himself isn't meaningful, it is. i just meant the battle itself). The only difference between Atris and Sion, when dealing with their respective loves, is the dialogue is a bit altered. There aren't any extra cut-scenes as there is with Atton (asking Boa-Dur about Exile), which could mean both were thrown in, or poorly cut out. Again Hekate you are being selective in what you say and what you leave out. KoTOR II was rushed because Lucasarts wanted it released when Episode III came out to boost sales. So alot of content was cut. The content you mentioned was for the female exile. The cut content for the male exile had a similar battle take place originally between Atris and Handmaiden. Infact Atris was given a much bigger role than Sion since there was the possibility of her to become "Darth Traya" instead of Kreia (Depending on how we played the game). So don't pull that on us. Hekate you are taking trivial matters and using them as arguements for the exile to be female. "Sion loves female exile so exile should be female, "atton could have died in the game at the hands of sion if the female exile loved them". All i hear is "could have" and "if the exile is female". The simple fact is people who played KoTOR II for the first time with a female exile prefer the female exile because thats what left the first impression AND People who played KoTOR II for the first time with a Male exile Prefer the Male Exile. I think the current poll results also speak for themselves. Anyway, back me up here guys?

Dawuss exactly, The point is that if you go by relationships its pretty even stevens. The exile character at its base has masculine attributes. Even the female exile is not a very effeminate person, quite the contrary almost a tom-boy. Exile was designed as man. Of course if you played the game as either male or female they had to write equally good plots and background stories for the characters around the exile. However as i said, Visas-Exile is the most natural and best suited romance for KoTOR II, which we lose out on with a female exile. And although some people will disagree with me but Handmaiden is a better character than Disciple.

HK-47: your point being? Atton-Exile romance is good, i am not disagreeing with you there. I played both KoTORs at least 4 times each, LS MALE, LS FEMALE, DS MALE and DS FEMALE. However thats still no reason to make a distinctly masculine character female. The Visas-Exile romance is just as good if not better. Visas being the slave girl of Nihilus, finally manages to break free only to find the exile and bring him to her ex-master. With the exile she learns that life is not as dark and morose as she has seen it all her life and things like compassion and love still have meaning. She turns away from the dark-side and forgives the atrocities made against her and her people only for love, the exile. That to me is a deeper and more touching romantic aspect. What about handmaiden, like atton she too questions the exile on every move he makes and eventually betrays atris and her sisters for the exile. Romantic relationships are good eitherway. The thing that should be noted is that with the female exile we lose out on characters like handmaiden and the relationship with bao-dur and visas become awkward if not out-right silly. Female exile only serves as eye-candy and provides no real difference in story. Swapping 3 good romantic relationships for 2 is not worth it

I didn't say that just because Revan is male the Exile should be male as well but just because Revan is male then Exile should be female sounds as stupid. They are polar opposties as the story would have as understand. NOT GENDER Opposites. 4 males, 4 females etc etc yatta yatta yatta. Who said this was a balancing act? Why do the number of males and female characters have be equal?? Last i checked this was a game NOT a debate for female rights. As for people who say the role is tailor made for females, i ask you, HOW?? If anything Revan was probably better suited to be a female character and the fact that they didn't make Revan female is just going to magnify what i am saying. Like it or not but the Exile character is slightly more manly than Revan, Exile has been like loner all of his life and suddenly gets people following him blindly. Ok, to counter atris you have sion but what about visas? Surely Visas-Exile is a better romance than Exile-Atton. Atton makes for a good close friend, what with his past and all but as a love interest to exile its not all that great. The female exile will be nothing more than eye candy, why? because it doesn't improve the story in any manner and only results in eliminating one interesting character for a boring one and swapping 3 romantic aspects for 2. The relationship with Bao-Dur IS a close male relationship between two old war veterans. A female in that situation may be able to pull it off but its still not very believable and awkward. Repeating what i said earlier. Revan had more things going for a female cannonical character. Think about it, The finnesse, Lacking the brashness of Malak....that and all other descriptions of Revan we have had throughout KoTOR and KoTOR II, Revan could have made a better arguement for being female. The Exile character was designed as a quiet loner, someone with a huge burden on his shoulders and a sad person in general. That fits better as a male and NOT a female. I am not saying there aren't any females like that but the description and character is manly at its base. Forcably adding uncreative variance to the game by making a distictly masculine lead character female. Weigh the facts, we lose out alot of interestings aspects of the game just for making exile female and swapping 3 relationships for 2.

Well put Sabahattin Dere, However i do disagree on the KoTOR II failing part. Anyway back to the topic at hand. Moreover the role is NOT tailor made for a female exile. KoTOR II makes better sense with exile being a male. Without the exile being male alot of interesting aspects and releationships as well as characters are left out. Exile should be male and just because the cannonical Revan is male should be no reason to make the Exile female. They are opposites that doesn't mean they should also be the opposite sex. Flash (from DC comics) is male and his opposite, the Anti-Flash as i remember was NOT a female. There are many other similar examples. Most SW fans are males and they would relate more to a male Exile. There are plenty of heroic characters in the KoTOR series, Bastilla, Mira, Visas, Handmaiden etc etc. I think making the cannonical exile female will only result in alot of fans being upset just to give a few horny immature kids another KoTOR character to drool over. And what about the story? the most imortant part. Exile Male gives us a better story than Exile female. And lets face it, Disciple has to be the worst KoTOR character in the series, not to mention the most uninteresting and boring.

Light side ending goes without saying for KoTOR II. I mean come on! If you go with the dark side ending, you end up with all the jedi dead. At the ending if you ask Kreia about your companions, she tells you that Handmaiden/Brianna rebuilds the jedi council and with the help of the jedi (we trained) starts to train a new generation of jedi. In the DS ending, everyone is killed so there would be no Jedi Council. Thats contradictory to all of star wars since we all know that the jedi order was rebuilt and according to cannon story lines by Handmaiden/Brianna. DS ending for any KoTOR game to be cannonical story lines is out of the question. At least not KoTOR I and II.

Lets hope so, If anyone at obsidian or lucasarts is listening. For crying out loud!! Don't make the cannonical Exile female!!!

Ok, perverted fantasies on DAWUS's part aside, I'de rather be playing a male character and NOT a female one. Play the game for what it was, A star wars game, not because you want to get off on pixelated 3d female characters. You've got dead or alive beach volleyball, rumble roses and hentai games for that. Besides you've got mira/visas/handmaiden. As for the general part. No, all jedi are not generals, however most jedi generals are male. Infact all that i know of are male, if there are any female ones let me know. Don't forget Atris had feelings for the exile. I don't want lesbian star wars characters.

I am not sure, i read it somewhere wasn't too thrilled about it. Making the exile a female is only going to upset alot of fans since majority of fans are male and at least i think would like the exile to be male.

Hey folks i am new here, so first off a big heya to everyone. Now getting to the topic. A certain high up official in lucasarts is pressing for Exile to be made female in the canon story lines. Personally thats put me off totally. I loved KoTOR but i liked KoTOR II even better because the exile was a much more interesting and better character. Making exile female would not only mess up the story in many ways but its simply wrong. Firstly if the exile is female, Handmaiden is out of the picture and Disciple is not nearly as interesting or a rememberable character from KoTOR II. I mean who would you rather have? The battle hardened hot echani warrior or the person the exile mockingly called a gentlemen "Ohh you bowed! you must be a gentlemen" (comment if you took Exile to be male and first encountered disciple). Anyway, what about the whole general aspect. The exile is a general. I don't mean to sound sexist is but seeing a male as a general makes more sense than a female. Alot of female jedis are sentinels but even then they tend to focus on force powers and not all out assault and battle. Thats why most jedi weapon masters are male. (I said most not all). What about kreia? Taking nothing away from the story or female gamers but If you've played KoTOR II both as a male and female you'll realize the game is more believable when kreia talks to the exile as male and it seems awkward when the exile is female. Lastly, If the exile is female, the whole romance with Visas and Handmaiden gets thrown out the window. Forget romance handmaiden gets thrown out completely. The best romance story line in all of the KoTOR series is undeniably Exile-Visas. Revan fanboys might argue that Revan-Bastilla was better but come on, Exile-Visas is way cooler. Anyway, Discuss.