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KDubya
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Posts posted by KDubya
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If you want to use a Barbarian, use him for DPS you wont regret. For tanking you need someone to stop as many monsters as possible without the need to heal. The Fighter is the best option.
Outside being able to hold 2 more monsters down than any other class, I am having a hard time seeing why fighter is so much better at tanking? Is 15 deflection really such a deal breaker? Because that (and 10 on all other defences) is what you're losing as a barbarian compared to a fighter. And the constant regen, which starts to be better in fights that last a lot longer than 30 seconds.
I'd love to see some numbers that demonstrate how much better 15 deflection is on a tank with say... 120~ deflection range (with fighter getting 135~).
Fighters have access to much more passive deflection, target engagement and defense bonuses. On top of that, they can instantly regain endurance when knocked out (though this only comes into play at level 12), receive less crits and have have constant regeneration.
I've said it several times now, but there's really no equal to the fighter when it comes to tanking. The closest 2nd are Paladins, but even they pale in comparison to the abilities of a Fighter. If you want a tank, get a Fighter.
If 15 is much, then I guess. Paladins tanking stats are exactly the same as fighters though, so outside being able to hold 2 more targets they're equal.
I never saw the regen as that important on Hard, but I guess it does come into play in PotD. Barbarian should be able to do the same on fights that last less than 30 seconds though. Most fights did not last long enough for chanter to hit 3 verses.
The difference would be 25 as soon as you hit frenzy. Plus a barb needs int for his carnage area and frenzy duration, while a fighter can dump int. The points that a barb needs for a good int will come from either the damage stats of might and dex or from the tanky stats of per and res.
If you had a barb with 15 int that is 12 points that could be saved by a fighter dumping int to 3. Those 12 points placed in a tanky stat would get you another 12 deflection as well as better saves, concentration and interrupts. The difference now would be 15 base + 12 stats = 27 deflection that would increase to 37 deflection during a frenzy.
In the case where the fighter deflection = monster accuracy the barb will be taking crits 27% of the time and 37% during a frenzy. Crits having 50% higher interrupts will hammer your barb that also has less concentration than a dps fighter. If the barb deflection = monster accuracy then the fighter will be at +27 or 37 and be practically unhittable.
Keeping your barb safely behind the frontline and using a reach weapon will avoid him being face planted but removes him from actually engaging and "tanking" any of the monsters.
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Here is a thought. A lot of you are saying constitution is worthless mainly because classes that need it already have an endurance bonus which helps them vs. the squishier classes.
So a way to make constitution more useful would be to not give other classes differing amounts of endurance.
Lets say all classes start with a flat amount of endurance it could be 0 it could be 10 it could be 100 it doesn't really matter as long as its NOT ENOUGH for melee in particular.
The endurance you get is then fully based off your constitution so something like
endurance = level * constitution points.
or maybe even
endurance = level * constitution points * someSmallMultiplier.
This would force melee classes like fighters, paladins, monks to spend more because having 3 points of constitution would suck and they wouldn't be able to perform their task.
Where as having very little constitution for wizards wouldn't matter as much.
That would be terrible and would really hamper any sort of fighter who wanted to do any damage.
Currently a fighter needs high resolve and perception in order to get a good deflection, cause interruptions and defend against interruptions via concentration. To do decent damage you need a high dexterity and might. This leaves intelligence and/or constitution as dump stats to fund the stats that you think are more worthy. Dropping intelligence drastically reduces your durations but is a fair trade off. Dropping constitution to high single digits, 7-9, is a calculated risk, you'll have less endurance but you can survive by being either having more deflection or doing more damage faster.
Your proposal would force fighters to pump up constitution or else be dropped as fast as a wizard without the benefit of staying safely in the rear. The only place to get the points would be from dex and might, the two stats that increase your damage. This would force fighters into being only damage sponges. The effect on glass cannon casters would be negligible or even give them a boost depending on the default starting endurance level.
The ranged classes already have a big advantage in the game, no reason to nerf fighters who try to do decent damage while still being able to survive in melee.
The proposal of having constitution reduce armor penalties would be interesting if it was comparable to the speed increase from dexterity. A fighter could then drop dexterity in favor of constitution to maintain a balanced tanking/dps or drop the tanky stats in order to go as fast as possible. This would open up many options for builds.
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At level 8 now, has 362 crits, 954 hits, 54,468 damage
crit rate of 27.5%
Average damage of 41.4 damage per hit
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No way +20 dmg is not a bug, It's the only ability in the game that gives flat damage increase rather than percent. Actually some of the abilities probably did this too previously (and still have wrong tooltips), but they were changed. It should be 20%. Also battle forged counting as melee attack is also ridiculous and in no way intentional.
Yes, It doesn't make barb better than the casters because of how the game is designed, but it makes all other martial classes obsolete for dps.
Yea that's fair, change it to 20/30%, and leave the Barb at roughly the same point it's at currently.
Like the fact every single non-Barbarian class can't put out meaningful DPS in melee is the problem here, not the fact that the Barbarian can in fact put out some meaningful DPS. If it's a design decision for it to be like that, well it's a pretty bad design decision.
I'd disagree about non-barbs being incapable of meaningful melee DPS.
Now this is only on hard, I have not tried PotD.
My main is a two handed fighter with max might, high dex, res and per with all damage type feats and wielding estocs. He is tanky enough in scale armor to stand with Eder and hits for an average of like 40 points at a fairly fast rate with a high accuracy. It is only single target damage but the single target goes down pretty fast. Tough fights might last longer than with a barbarian in the mix but at the end of the fight the team is still standing and not hardly injured. Lasting longer also gets some use out of chanter summons.
Trash mobs can't hit a fighter spec'd for damage very well so the speed of killing them is immaterial. A barb is going to get hit and crit'd by anything swinging, DR helps but good deflection + good DR is better than terrible deflection and good DR.
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Shadows can teleport and like to go after the easiest targets to kill such as casters or glass cannon barbarians.
With normal monsters being engaged by Eder will generally keep them next to him. If they run away after being engaged, Eder gets a free attack on them, disengagement attack with a big accuracy boost. So if a monster is engaged by Eder and then runs off after your mage he will get hit hard for the attempt. Normally an engaged monster will not choose to risk a disengagement attack and will stay put and attack whatever they can reach from where they are.
It works with your guys as well, if your mage is engaged and then tries to run with a reddened move cursor he will get smacked hard.
Now if your barbarian is close enough to an engaged monster they can choose to hit you instead of Eder. Might be better to give him a pike or quarter staff and have him hide behind Eder.
Ranged monsters can shoot whomever they want to. Just like you they like to either "shoot the mouthy one first" or shoot "the one in the dress".
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I had the same issue with auto pause on for "weapon ineffective". Once I turned off that pause option I was much happier.
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What sort of critical hit rate are you getting?
My 2 hander dwarf fighter on hard is clocking in at 25% - 227 crits, 679 hits at an average of 40.8 damage.
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Thanks everyone.
I have GoG version, the print screen button, open paint cntrl v did the trick.
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How do you take a screen shot in the game? Specifically of the character screen, it'd make it easier to put in a post rather than type everything out.
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You should have dropped int to 3, and put the points into might or con.
With each level you gain the effect of a low con becomes less and less, especially with a fighter that gets a lot per level up. At low levels it is more of an issue.
Also what was the point of not wearing armor?
On a side note I wonder if that build with a morning star and the talent for increased interrupts could perma lockdown a single target with repeated stronger (1 sec) interrupts?
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Wouldn't the higher resolve help with avoiding interruption, which for a slow two hander would be pretty damn annoying?
I don't have experience with a two hander that gets hit a lot coupled with a low resolve stat. My main is a two hander dwarf fighter with high might, dex, resolve and per with dumped int and low con. He inflicts a lot of interuptions and does not get interrupted himself, or at least not that I have noticed.
With regards to the usefulness of the barbaric yell, the inflicted status of frightened would slightly lower the targets resolve and thus their deflection making them a little easier to hit. Also the reduction of the targets accuracy would reduce the amount of damage received.
For example, if I understand the combat mechanics correctly, a monster has a 30 acc and you have a 30 deflection. The monster has to roll a 51 or higher to hit you. If you yell the monster has to roll a 61 or higher to hit you, if you frenzy he has to roll a 41 or higher to hit you and rolls of 91 or higher would crit. In this example you'd take 50% more damage with a frenzy compared to a yell.
The decision would be can you kill more than 50% faster with a frenzy? +4 might = +12% damage, x1.33 attack rate => +33% damage, around +45% more damage.
In my pure theory craft thought process they seem fairly well balanced.
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For a two handed fighter definitely drop Int to 3, but I'd put as much as you can into dex as well. Faster attacks are faster attacks, it will speed up your slow two handed attacks by the same percentage as it would a dual wielding dagger. Get as high a resolve and perception as you can, helps with getting interrupts and protecting yourself with concentration.
if you are going with pikes you can stay behind your shield tanks and hit with impunity while wearing light armor for even faster attacks.
Take the accuracy boosting talent at start instead of knockdown for the per encounter boost to start the fight.
I'd go with
Might -19
Con - 8 or even 6
Dex - 16 and 18
Per - 16
Int - 3
Res - 16
With a pike and light armor this would put out decent single target damage while being safe behind the lines.
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Having the stats set by the game is fine, keeps you from min maxing all the companions and lets them all have their own flavor.
Letting them start at level one and giving you the ability to set their skills and talents would be way better and allow for more role playing choice and replay value.
For example take Eder; I got him at level two and he had already chosen knockdown and weapon focus ruffian. The knockdown is not terrible but having the option to go with Disciplined Barrage for a short term accuracy buff to spike DPS at the start of combat would have been better. Locking you into using sabre, stiletto, club, pistol and rod is just terrible. If you wanted Eder to wield two handed weapons too bad for you. If you wanted to use any other weapons you are jacked out of a talent, where you only get a few so each one counts.
The Ranger Sagani also suffers from having chosen Peasant weapon focus locking her into using hunting bows or blunderbuss, both which suffer from low damage and a problem penetrating DR.
It would have been great for it to have been an option in the game. Next play-through I will check out the mods that will address this oversight.
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I took both with my fighter.
Confident Aim works for every weapon which is a plus, +20% minimum damage nets you +10% average but will more reliably get past DR. I am not clear on the specifics of converting grazes to hits but it sounds like a good thing.
Weapon spec locks you into a group of weapons which might or might not be a bad thing. The best melee choice is probably not in the same group as the best ranged choice.
I would take Confident Aim first as it is more flexible with weapon choices.
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Shadows teleport, that is their thing.
They like to kill the easiest target, that'd be your wizard.
When fighting teleporting creatures you need to prepare a secondary line of defense in order to engage threats which appear behind your front line.
I find enemies that instead of shooting the guy in robes that can launch fireballs, instead decide to suicide charge the guy in full plate to be immersive breaking. With my party I try to drop the spell caster first, why should the enemy do anything less?
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On hard I have a Boreal Dwarf fighter using two handed weapons, esoc, who hits like a truck and can tank enough to survive.
20 Might
7 Con
16 Dex
16 Per
3 Int
16 Res
I took the Disciplined Barrage instead of knockdown for a big Acc burst to start the fight. Added Confident Aim, Savage Attack, Two Handed Style and Weapon Specialization Adventurer. These give damage bonuses of +30% (might), +20% (savage attack), +15% (two handed style), +15% weapon spec for +80% damage and another +20% to minimum damage from Confident Aim. His high Perception regularly results in strong interrupts and his high Resolve keeps him from being interrupted. With the high Per and Res his deflection is not bad considering he does not use a shield. In a pinch he could swap to a flail and give up the 15% damage from two handed style but so far he has not done so.
He has twice as many crits as the rest of the party, has 3x more damage done as anyone else, and also leads the team in damage taken.
He can crank out consistent single target damage while being in melee range with good survivability
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Based on your stats for your Paladin you should go for the heaviest armor that you can. With a 3 dex you already have a -21% action speed, might as well throw on full plate for another -50%. With the low dex and might, damage output will be very low anyway so better to maximize his survivability with the highest DR armor you can get.
A good general rule of thumb is that you want the highest DR armor on guys who will get hit a lot and the lower DR and faster action speed on guys who will be doing a lot of shooting and not getting hit.
High DR armor makes a big difference on a guy with a high deflection. Less hits doing less damage result in guys who do not get dropped.
A mage in full plate might take two hits to kill instead of one but will cast spells 50% slower. Better to go with light or no armor and lay down the smack faster.
A high damage melee guy can do well with lighter armor if you can either hold engagement with a more heavily armored guy or attack with long reach weapons from the back row.
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In addition to what you listed in the OP I also like the grimoire spell system.
I like how you can add spells to your book from other's books after you have defeated them. I like how you can have four spells per level to choose from and can use any of them as needed. Need four cones of fire? - No problem. It combines the tactical flexibility of a sorcerer with the strategic flexibility of a wizard. On top of it you can swap to a different grimoire if you really need a completely different spell book.
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I really like the resting and per encounter system and how it interacts with the whole game experience.
In encounters I try and use all of my per encounter abilities and keep my spells in reserve. If an engagement suddenly starts to go badly then I scramble to fire off the big boy spells to turn the tide. As my frontline starts to accrue damage from one encounter to the next I need to free up the spell use to avoid losses. If I have full spells but experiencing fatigue due to travel to a new map, I continue on with a more liberal spell usage until either I clear the map or am forced to rest.
The system forces you to make strategic decisions as to when to expend resources. A system like Dragon Age promoted the use of your most powerful abilities as fast as you could while waiting for your timers to reset.
On hard you get two sets of camping supplies which feels "right". You can use one and still keep an emergency backup camp. More than two would not promote the feeling of conserving resources.
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I found that having two tank type melee guys initiate combat with ranged weapons before switching to melee works good for obtaining the enemies attention and stabilizing the front. Then I can fire AoE or arcane assault such that my guys are not in the damage area. For cones I either back up such that both my frontline and the enemies are both in the light shaded area or run around to the flank and hit the enemies from behind with the cone.
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I am only up to level 5 playing on hard, different levels and difficulties might have wildly different experiences.
I have Aloth, Eder, Durance, Kana, and a boreal dwarf two handed fighter specced for damage. The fighters initiate combat with pistol and arbalest and then switch to sword and board and Esoc to hold the mobs at bay. The rest fire from behind the line and use their per encounter abilities. The wizard Aloth gets two AoE arcane assaults which help from the safety of the rear. As needed his AoE spells like chill fog and cone of flames get used. The cone can either be fired from behind, finding the spot where both my frontline and the enemies are all in the light shaded area of effect or by running to the flank or rear and roasting the enemies.
The second level spell fetid caress is awesome for single tough targets.
Maybe other caster classes can own everything but I find Aloth effective as a tactical damage dealer. Against normal enemies he just uses the per encounters, against large groups he lets loose with the AoE and against tough single targets he fires up the disabling spells. The spell system allows for flexibility, I can use 4 fire cones in a row if needed.
Perhaps as a main a low level wizard is not as exciting but I find in most encounters I take control of the wizard while my fighter main goes to town on his own.
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When I was young we were taught:
"Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"
Do they not teach this anymore? People offended by a limerick need to go to the hardware store, buy a bag of cement and harden the #@*! up.
When will something else be deemed to be offensive to the perpetually offended?
You do realise that scientific study has proven this saying to be woefully inaccurate right ? Words are a powerful thing. They do lasting damage. Largely when someone resorts to hurting someone else with 'sticks and stones' it is after words have hurt them.
So hopefully no one ever gets taught this this silly misleading rhyme ever again.
Words only have power if YOU give others power over yourself.
I control what affects me, it is my choice and I choose to ignore whatever I want to. If someone can not look past or ignore something then I truly feel sorry for them. Their world must be a horrible place where they are perpetual victims powerless against their perceived tormenters.
If Obsidian had stopped the limerick before the game launched I would not care either way. The game is their product and they have control over what they choose to include. They chose to include the limerick. They should have responded that freedom of speech means the freedom to offend. Je suis Charlie.
Succumbing to fascist demands while throwing out some PR spin is just cowardice and self censorship which is the worst kind of censorship. This is how freedom dies, not with a bang but a whimper.
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When I was young we were taught:
"Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"
Do they not teach this anymore? People offended by a limerick need to go to the hardware store, buy a bag of cement and harden the #@*! up.
When will something else be deemed to be offensive to the perpetually offended?
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fighter tank: might vs. con
in Pillars of Eternity: Characters Builds, Strategies & the Unity Engine (Spoiler Warning!)
Posted
If you dump int down to 3 you can max might, per and res. This will give you good tanking stats along with max damage. For con you can leave at 10 or even drop to 7 or 8 and place the extra in dex for faster attacks.
Int on a fighter just affects the knockdown or accuracy buff duration, 5 second knockdown at 10 or 3.5 sec at 3 with an extra 7 points to put somewhere useful.
You can go weapon focus, spec and mastery for +25% damage and +6 acc. Go with two handed weapons for bigger damage and better armor penetration. Estocs are really nice and are paired with warbows, another choice is soldier for great swords, pikes and arquebus.
Instead of making a damage sponge armed with a hatchet doing minimum damage, go for big damage two handers while still being able to tank well enough. Two handed style gains 15% damage and gives up 6 deflection and some reflex saves compared to sword and shield style.