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Blog Comments posted by Nathaniel Chapman
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I guess I understand your point. That said, this may bit digress from the topic about difficulty-adjustment but, again, when we are talking of depth, I think we have to separate short-term and long-term depths. For, I think the depth of role-playing games can be expressed in rather long-term manner. Generally speaking, it is experienced when a player made a different choice from his previous game. About character-development, for example, he may find it's interesting when sneak option opened up different aspect of the world such as NPC interactions and/or in-world secrets which were not spotted in his previous session as a combat expert. These things may feel trivial but they give the world/story/NPCs more characters and depth. I personally find that Obsidian game-designers tend to be good at designing these long term game-experience, or longevity, compared with other "RPG" designers. Of course, good at polishing short-term game-plays must be a definite plus, though.
I agree that the "RPG" rewards (NPCs, story, etc.) can have a lot of value. But I'd also argue that great stealth games do that too! If you played Thief, one of the coolest parts of it was the little character interactions you'd hear between guards if you snuck up on them. If you didn't stealth properly, you missed out on all that stuff.
Also, what I think is really important is that there is a somewhat comparable amount of depth that you give the player between various gameplay options if you ask them to mix and match. What I'm saying, more than anything, is that if you are going to give someone the option to stealth in the game, you should spend a little more time polishing your stealth gameplay than most RPGs do. That may mean sacrifices to other systems, or it may just mean a change in focus. But it's something that I think is really valuable.
Let me put it like this: when I find an RPG where playing a thief is close to as satisfying as it was in Thief, I'll be ecstatic. Imagine how much more valuable your stealth abilities will feel in that case!
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His idea of defining core game-play is interesting. However, in complex games such as RPG (not a tactical combat game with character advancement), I think the context of core-game-play depends on the players.
To some extent. Obviously RPGs (and some RPG-like action games!) tend to lay out pretty broad core gameplay options and we let players mix and match from within those options. But we're (and by we I mean the designers) still defining the core gameplay as the various combinations of the options we offer. And, on that point, I think that one way that RPGs actually risk being less satisfying as games than other genres is when we give the player many core gameplay options but do not make the truly "core options" equally deep and satisfying.
The best example I can give is stealth gameplay. RPGs honestly have very little actual stealth gameplay - it's mostly just "hit the stealth button/click the stealth option and hope you don't roll low". Some RPGs have done a little better, but if you look at the depth and complexity of their combat systems and compare them to the depth and complexity of the stealth systems (especially compared against actual stealth focused games like Thief) the stealth gameplay does seem pretty anemic in comparison to the combat.
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Great read; it's nice to see the rationale behind F:NV's Hardcore mode explained in clear and meaningful terms (i.e. the distinction between core gameplay and challenges).
In the context of an RPG, it looks like you're arguing for player-skill scaling (more or better resource allocation, tactics, "twitch") over character-skill scaling (+/- hit points, damage, or other attributes). So would if be fair to say that difficulty scaling as you envision it necessarily defies conventional player attempts to min/max or otherwise "game" the system?
You also mention how increasing difficulty scaling has traditionally limited gameplay-- reducing tactical depth, for instance. Your system seems to be the inverse: more difficulty really seems like an expansion of gameplay and gameplay considerations. It's a truly welcome paradigm shift, though it makes me wonder: if hard modes are "more game," then are easy modes just "less game"?
First, I want to clarify, I do not and have not worked on F:NV, so I'm just using it as an example.
My argument would be, generally, yes. But that doesn't mean that easy modes are worse - I think the question you then have to ask is "How much game is right for you"?
For example, some people play casually against their friends (who also play casually) and for them RTSes are prettier, more visually impressive games of army men. Others play them as [complex strategic affairs where you feint a given unit to encourage them building a counter but in fact you focus on the counter to their counter. Either way, both people are having fun, even though the first player isn't playing as deep or complex a game.
And, I'm definitely arguing for more player skill scaling (and less character skill scaling) at higher difficulties. I like to think of it this way: you've got the game that the player is playing (and this is where their skill as a player comes in), and the narrative in which they are roleplaying(this is where character skill and character development come in), and those are both working in tandem to make the RPG experience.
Difficulty options should, in my opinion, affect the game moreso than the narrative. There are some cases where I think that the game reinforces the narrative and thus harder difficulties can help reinforce the narrative too. And there I think is where F:NV's hardcore mode is strongest - in making scavenging and dehydration bigger parts of the gameplay, they use the gameplay mechanics to better reinforce the narrative. It's just that, for more casual players, that may be too much game for them, and so we let them opt out even though they're really not experiencing the story world as they "should".
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First, congrats on your first blog entry debut here.
About expected game-play experience, in RPG, rules are there to dictate the experience of the players, which is why the game masters need to interpret the meaning of the rules and have to decide which rules they are going to use in their sessions/campaigns. The core game-play of games which difficulty levels can be adjusted by decreasing/increasing damages to some extent is, of course, combat and it's condition for winning must be related with reducing the health/hit points of the opponents into 0. It is without saying that this mechanism was dominant in most of classic CRPG, which probably some players - even designers may still think in the same way even when thinking of games which core game-play should not be focused on that part.
Well, but again, I think there are more interesting ways to scale difficulty even in those CRPGs. For instance, disabling friendly AoE damage in NWN2 was more interesting than just increasing damage. Maybe disabling wounded limbs for the player on super easy mode in Fallout, or making the requirements for repairing wounded limbs more severe.
However, the format won't work in a game such as Thief, where the core game-play is sneaking. I believe this is something to do with its design philosophy. For, I've gotten an impression that the designers from Looking Glass Studios tend to regard games as simulations* rather than following/rebuilding game-play formats of existing games, probably reflecting their film influence (Hitchc0ck and Kubrick come to my mind). They build the game-plays to enhance the imaginary experience of the players in the simulated environments. I think even the birth of sneak action game-play is just a sub-product of this process although it was kind of evolutionary for shooter genre, which core structures are still somehow related with reducing the opponents' HP before the protagonist's HP gets 0. Simply put, different rule-sets for different game-experiences. It's always necessary for the game-masters (and probably designers) to imagine what kind of game-play experiences they'd like to offer their players.As for pacing, Thief allowed the players to play at their own paces. Even in hardest mode, the main character can be spotted numerous times, which is O.K. as long as he doesn't get killed although still fighting is not a wise option and stealth game-play is still intact. If the players choose such pace, the game may not remain so "stealthy", though.
Regarding to putting elements which interfere with core-game play and pacing, there are discussions about hardcore mode of FO:NV in the thread of these boards although the thread may be digressing as usual. The mode won't only increase the difficulty in an indirect manner but also it definitely affects the pacing at the same time, which is probably one of the reasons why NV team separated it from the difficulty setting. In the context of what I wrote above, it is more like adding a set of house-rules which enhance the simulation to create the sense of survival but the addenda won't make the game easier to say at least. I guess there are no clear-cut ways to separate the difficulty from these additional factors which directly or indirectly affect it. This tendency would become more complicated in more sandbox games such as FO3 and probably GTAIV (Sorry, I haven't played it)... You seem to have began to use brain scanners in development. Is there a way to find adequate stress level of the brains of the players, by which you may able to find out the sweat spot for us non-super-taskers of the balance between the core game-play and other game-play elements?
Well, I think honestly that "Hardcore" mode is a good example of the kind of difficulty setting that I personally find interesting. The game is absolutely going to be more complex in hardcore mode and is going to provide more challenges to the player. That's kind of what I expect from a "harder" game - more depth, not something like "all damaged is doubled" which often just results in more frustration for the player. Because really, you should win and lose not because of damage number but because of tactical decisionmaking. If all you're doing is changing the damage numbers, in theory you're just encouraging the player to not get hit, which actually can reduce tactical depth (aggressive gameplay is less useful). It's a tough balance, but I think the goal of difficulty options should be to make the game more complex/deep and to push the player to play better, not necessarily just play more conservatively.
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As you can see... Wyvernes are really much more scaled (similar to dragons)... on back and abdomen scales "explodes" similar to projections.
The model in the MoB screenshot, to me, seems much more as a mix of leather skin and feathers... no scales.
Actually, that's what we thought at first, too - but WotC kindly informed us that they are, in fact, feathers, and that wyverns are feathered. So feathers they got
Difficulty Settings
in Chapmania
A blog by Nathaniel Chapman in General
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I think that's a really interesting analysis. Very good points! Also, of course everything is your opinion, that's a given