Darth Suzy

Yes, the opening background material said I was a veteran of the Mandelorian wars, and hinted that awful things had happened on Malachor. Nothing I saw in the background material availabe at the beginning of the game said I was a general, the commander of the fleet at the battle of malachor V, or what exactly happened at malachor V. Such material only gradually became available as one played the game,and some of the key material, as i said and complained about at the beginning, only became available very late in the game and only if one had the right degree of influence with Bao-Dur.

You have to work in the framework the DM gives you. Thats part of the roleplaying thing. If you failed to work within that framework, then I'm afraid the failure is down to you. Unlike a human DM the game can't correct your mistakes for you. Cant say I had any problems with the game contradicting my chosen backgrounds. Not something I,or anyone else could honestly say about KOTOR thanks to Bastila's 20 questions. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, let me explain my problem. If the DM had given me a framework within the first hour of the game, I would say fine. My problem is that the "DM" didn't give me all of my framework until I had played for 30 or 40 hours, at which point I discovered that the character I had been playing didn't work.. A DM who doesn't explain your character's background until 30 to 40 hours into the game is a bad DM, anbd a CRPG that doesn't explain your full background until 30 or 40 hours into the game has problems as a CRPG. Note: I am somewhat perplexed as to some of the objections to what I have had to say. For all I know, I am the only person on the planet who had the objections I had. For all I know, no one else anywhere ever disliked the game for the reasons I disliked it. My sole issue is to provide a bit of feedback as to what bothered me personally about this game. If no one else agrees, I understand that. What I do not understand, and view as fan boyism, is the view that I should shut up about what bothered me about the this game and why.

Darth Suzy - you seem somewhat distraught at the inability to role-play the developers character wherein her background information is lacking. Don't be - merely concern yourself with role-playing your character instead (providing the game presents you with opportunities to do so; which it does). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, this won't do. At the beginning of my first time through the game I created my character. As the various revelations of the game developed, I drew the conclusion that my character could not possibly have been the Exile, or done the the things I ultimately learned the Exile had done. This was my problem. It is not any concievable character, given what you know at the beginning of the game (which is only that your character is a veteran of the Mandelorian Wars) who could have been a general (and why not an admiral?) who commanded the fleet at Malachor that used the shadow generator to kill off--well what exactly?

So, jaguer4ever, you consider it perfectly reasonable that at the beginning of a role playing game, one has absoltuely no idea of what your very own character has done in the past? How exactly do you define your character at the beginning of the game if you have have no idea of this? How exactly do you respond to questions as to how you do or do not defend what you did on Malachor if you have no idea what you did on Malachor? Genuinely curious as to how you answer these questons?

For those of us who actually use words, and present arguments, and ask questions, care to explain what that means?

Thanks for the understandable and thoughtful reply It was intended to be insulting, as was the post I was responding to. If someone wishes to treat my opinions with respect, then they will explain why they disagree with my arguments, or why they have a different approach to what a game should be. They will not just say that "It's funny how prefacing a negative critique with a disclaimer comes off as disingenuous." I actually happen to think that it is possible for different people to have different opinions of a game, and to discuss these opinions in some way more interesting and more profound, as you and Arkendale in fact did, than to say you are being disingenuous, or simply subject to "cynical indifference" (what on earth does that mean?). Let me again point out that I made a request, spoil me as to what happened on malachor V. Why exactly will nobody do this? Am I not adequately nice? I should find out for myself? I should search (believe me, I have spent hours searching for every varaint on Malachor, Malachor V, Bao Dur, shadow field generator, etc, and still have no confidence that I know everything that the game says about the topic, and I would really like to know everything the game says about the topic. Really begging here!)

Can cynical indifference count as an opinion? Your sentiments are outlaid as personal proclamations and I have zero interest in either dissuading you from them or in writing an essay for you reiterating all of the events pertaining to Malachor V. ololanus <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This may come as a terrible shock to you--but reactions to games, and what is right or wrong wbout them are personal reactions. Do you have some other view? As to everything pertaining to Malachor V that I missed, I would appreciate learning it, as this is the most likely way for me to play the game again, or revise my views. But apparently, I should not be told this because--what exactly--I am too inferior for such consideration?

It's funny how prefacing a negative critique with a disclaimer comes off as disingenuous. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ahhmm, do you actually have any opinion as to what I had to say. I was trying, however, badly, to register the level of my dissatisfaction. I did play the game 3/4 of the way through once, and then retsart and complete it. There was much that satisfied me in the game. This puts KOTOR2 ahead of a boat load of games I have played in the last few years. It also makes me eager to see if Obsidian can do better in the future. Nevertheless, there were a couple of things that really dissatisfied me. Did they dissatisy you? Why or why not? Do try to respond in slightly less fanboy way.

OK, this is not a KOTOR2 sucks thread. There is much that I enjoyed in this game, and I certainly look forward to future Obsidian games. Particularly, I thought that the Exile was a potentially interesting and different character concept, that the story line was intriguing and unusually moving for a CRPG, and that Kreia was one of the best written and voice-acted characters in any game I have ever played. I was also not that bothered by the ending, or the the thought that not everything the devs imagined made it into the game--this happens for many games. Nevertheless, I was very dissatisfied with KOTOR2, and I wanted to provide some feedback as to why. My personal concept of a role playing game is that I define and develop a character, the game devs provide a setting and incidents, and between us, when I am done, we have a cool story of my character. I am one of those people who works up a detailed personality and background for my character even in CRPGs. Many times, including in this game, I even keep an in character journal of some kind. (I am not saying my concept of role playing is the religiously right definition