AgainstOne

i never repeated myself. if you think i did, stop saying it and prove it. apparently you don't understand how an argument works. i never insisted that anyone was wrong, i simply argued my opinions against their opinions. i thought there were several comments made that made alot of sense to me, but not enough to change my opinion. the very first response i received to my very first post in that thread was condescending against me. is it unnatural that i would assume the tone of the discussion? i never resorted to concocting the degrading stories about people that many of the participants in that thread did to me. i never resorted to name calling. but instead of saying, yeah, you tried to have an honest argument (which is all i really did), you continue to defend actions that are not worthy of being defended.

Thanks. My parents were right all along! But to answer your hypothetical question, I'll answer with a question. Why would someone who hates the game so much continue to post the same thing over and over on that game's message board? Answer: it defies common sense. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> if you'd like to inform yourself, read all my posts and you will see that i have never posted the same thing over and over. i have expressed my opinion of the game, in a thread with the title asking for opinions of the game, no less, and then started in discussion/argument over my opinions. i have posted once to tell global_74 that i agree with how he felt and all of my other posts have been defending myself against less than informed people, like yourself. basically it boils down to this, i am not the type of person to listen to people talk BS directly to me without me responding in some logical way to counter thier assertions. frankly put, if you want me to "go away", stop replying to me with ridiculous BS because otherwise i will continue to refute it.

perhaps you should just go read it and stop speculating, that is what an intelligent person would do. and for you to say that i brought abuse on myself just by expressing my opinions is downright pathetic and shows the signs of a sick mind.

Sure thing, global74. " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> alright, since you insist on looking like a complete ass, let me help you out. first of all, from a quick check, i see that global_74 has 55 posts attributed to his account. i have 31 (32 after this one). if i were posting using both of these accounts, and doing it to bolster my arguments, then why haven't i, AgainstOne, posted in a same thread as global_74 before this one tonight? if i have 2 accounts so that it is "easier to flame", then why is tonight the night i choose to start doing it after having each account open long enough to have 55 posts in one and 32 in another? or did i plan it all out ahead just so i could flame IN THIS THREAD? way to go sherlock, you're a friggin genius!

Then why didn't you just keep your username global74? Or is it easier to flame a game if you sign up for multiple accounts to do it? " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> omg that is so lame. furthermore, just because i liked his word you start with the false accusations that the "fanboys" of these forums, like yourself, seem to be so adept at creating. is that all you people do is make sh_t up about people to try and make yourselves have any credibility whatsoever. i am not global_74, never was global_74, never will be global_74. nice try, but next time it might be more helpful in not making yourself look like an idiot if you'd try use facts in your arguments/assertions.

no, that is the name i'm giving to fanboys who make personal attacks against me for presenting arguments that conflict with what they'd like to believe. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe you're wrong in your opinion.... just an idea. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well, well, well. that brings me to whole freakin reason i'm quite pissed. just because people think i am wrong in my opinion does not give them the flame, troll, and verbally abuse me. it only gives them the right to engage in intelligent discussion. apparently people here don't get that concept.

Nah. This ain't your freaking playground, kid. If you were "abused" then, it's your fault for not reporting it immediately. Trolling is against the forum rules, and quite frankly, it's rather boring to see you spam perfectly good threads with the same thrash over and over again. But that's just my opinion and perhaps somebody actually likes it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> first of all, i'm not a kid. i'm a 31 year old software developer who just happened to graduate with 2 degrees (computer engineering & computer science) summa **** laude. i don't consider this my playground. i came here to take my opinions and complaints to the source, obsidian entertainments forums, were i was trolled, flamed, and downright abused for conflicting with the sycophantic views of the many members here. and as far as reporting, i did report it and what did they do to the people committing the offenses? nothing. nada. so thank you for your opinions and comments, but you are apparently uninformed on the situation.

no, that is the name i'm giving to fanboys who make personal attacks against me for presenting arguments that conflict with what they'd like to believe.

and i feel i have every right to. if you read this thread, all i did was give my opinions and try to discuss/argue it and all i got from many of these sycophants was flaming and trolling. so yeah, i've come ready to f****** troll this time. you can't take it, don't dish it out.

let me guess, in new zealand people whole express their opinions without resorting to flaming, trolling, and vulgarity don't desrve to be treated nice? no, but after they way you and your cronies treated me, you have made yourselves the target of a personal vendetta translation: there's no way i can win an argument with this guy, quite frankly, because i'm missing the necessary equipment (i.e. brains). also, from the discussions i've had with you so far, being on your ignore list can only be a blessing. [prays]thank you, lord[end prayer]

translation: please shut the guy up who's showing everyone just how sycophantic we really are!

global, i got the exact same response as you (read my posts on the previous page). and your description of them as sycophants hits the nail right on the head.

here's a few more: btw, feel free to read the whole discussion and see just what type of idiots you are defending.

the following are all responses i was given to well thought-out, well presented arguments. but feel free to explain those away for me just like you fanboys try to do with everything else anyone has to say that differs from what you want to hear.

i'm going to have to pull my wildcard out on this one and call you because you are just about as wrong as you can get on that assertion. you see, i did exactly what you just said. i posted my honest opinions, starting at post #47 of this thread, on what i thought of this game and why it ended up the way it did. i did not call any names, i just posted intelligent arguments. what did i get in return? gorth, jaquars4ever, hades_one, ShadowPaladin V1.0, and others, instead of discussing or have an intelligent argument, just made up things and insinuated things about me, called me names, and basically just abused me. so i really don't think anything anyone can say to these fanboys, intelligent or just blatantly insulting, will illicit any different response from this legion of feargus' assmonkeys.

it's funny how when i compared this unfinished game to an unfinished movie in post #226 of this thread, the idiot fanboys here start wailing about comparing apples to oranges and how you can't compare making games to making movies, but when feargus compares making the game to making a movie, they say nothing. hey guys, keep your heads stuck way up feargus' a** ok? if you pull them out now, you might have to actually start thinking for yourselves. and thank you feargus for helping me prove my point!

there you go, just like i said. just gloss over all of the important stuff i mentioned and just reply about the ebon hawk and pc bugs. for your info, i have only played it on xbox. while it is nothing compared to the horror stories i have read about the PC version, i saw my share of glitches and bugs. not to mention that I WAS ON TOP OF THE FREAKIN EBON HAWK and it was far too damaged to be able to be repaired on malachor. there was no equipment on malachor to even use to do the repairing. but to each his own. i can see that you are far too jaded to acknowledge the truth. and as for your comment about consumer rights. everytime i have tried to return an opened piece of software, all they will do is exchange it for the same title. and before i walk out, they will open that one up so i can't try to return it as unopened.

it's alot more than just the ending and you know that. why do you people keep dismissing this as if nothing is wrong? there are several references in the game that refer to cut material. since this material is cut, one does now know what the hell the game is referring to. it is very confusing and, quite frankly, some inexcusably sloppy editing. there are several plot lines in the story that are just dropped, leaving you wondering what the hell happened to this quest i was on that was so damn important that now has just disappeared into thin air? if they had just taken a few more days they could have cleaned it up to a point where we wouldn't have even known things had been cut out. as it is now, when i finished the game i was so confused by the incoherent story that i just didn't care anymore and was glad the damn thing was over. before i ever even knew about the cut material, anyone that asked me about the game, i told them that the story just didn't come together and it didn't make sense. when i read through and listened to the content that was cut, i was like, "wow, the story makes sense now. now i understand what was going on." that is pretty damn sad. i shouldn't have to apologize to you or anyone else for wanting what i paid for. it's great that you are satisfied with the incoherent babble that is what they offered us for a story, but you'll just have to excuse the thousands of us who aren't. there are so instances where they just leave you hanging. what of the crashed and utterly inoperable ebon hawk that just magically fixes itself so you can fly off at the end? i don't know about you, but when i play a game, i explore EVERTHING. i was on top of the ebon hawk on malachor and that thing was freakin buried in rock and damaged so badly that they could not have possibly fixed it in the amount of time i took to comb the entire explorable area of malachor's surface and the sith compound, which i did. not to mention that there were no resources on malachor to help repair the ship even if i wanted to! what of atris and darth nihilis as the posterboys in all the magazines and ads to only have them for a brief moment in the game? what of all the screenshots and video footage they advertised that were eventually cut from the game? what i saw advertised for this game is not what i got. i saw screen and footage that don't even exist in this game! that is downright false advertisement! what i was shown that influenced me to buy this game is not even in this game! there is so much more in this game that just can't be explained, and yet you people whisk it away as if it doesn't exist. it's quite sad. you are just showing obsidian, lucasarts, and every other developer/publisher that you are just sheep and you're happy to be fed any garbage they feel like throwing at you. and not to mention the throngs of bugs and glitches. numerous people can't even play the damn game. for what was supposed to be the sequel to one of the greatest RPGs ever, it just fell flat on it's face, excuse me and thousands of other people for being sorely disappointed and feeling downright cheated. and you fanboys can keep coming back with your "with the amount of time they had..." excuses all day long, but it's utter bull****. they could have and should have taken more time to finish it or they should have never embarked on that journey to begin with. they had a vision for this game and it was grand and they didn't deliver. they didn't deliver and the result i got was pure crap. i would much rather never have played this game at all than to experience this total and complete disappointment.

Out of how many units sold ? That petition proves one of two things. The people banging on about the ending are a small minority. Or that there are so few customers online that they are rather irrelevent to the big picture which is sales of a million+. the last time i heard, the sales were just over 200,000. so 6400 sigs and growing daily is quite a large number of users. especially when you consider that the majority of people who bought this game don't even know the petition exists. that just shows your failure to see the significance: A) for every person who has signed that petition, there are atleast 20 that don't even know of its existence, possibly more. B) this is unprecedented. since when has there been such an outcry by the user community over a game? that alone shows the significance of it. C) this petition has been up less than a month and the number of signatures grows daily. so many of you have here been scoffing at the petition. but will you be scoffing once it reaches 20,000 signatures? 50,000 signatures? how long are you going to hold onto your blatant fanboyism and refuse to acknowledge the truth?

if that is the case, then it would have been even easier for obsidian to tell them no. if lucasarts had tried to change the contract on them mid-production, like you are suggesting, there is no way obsidian could have been legally liable to comply and it would give them an even better justification for sticking to their original vision and finishing the project. i have said this many times before and i will say it again. i believe that obsidian was offered a huge bonus to get the game out for a holiday release. all they saw was dollar signs and we all got sacrificed in the process. this is the only theory that makes sense to me. and if you all think this game is so wonderful, then please tell me why there is a petition with currently 6400 signatures for them to finish this game? this is unprecedented! please tell me when this has happened before in the history of video games. please tell me when there was such an outcry for a developer to finish such a blatantly unfinished piece of work? i'm all ears, tell me. if it weren't for all of your blatant fanboyism, maybe you'd be able to stop making excuses for obsidian and see what is really going on here. actually, if you would like to check page 4 of this thread, you can see that i quoted gorth 8 times in one post. so i think that i know what he was talking about and what i was talking about while you are just being an ass.

Reminds me a bit of the used cars salesman in "True Lies" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> that's funny, it reminds me of how you keep avoiding the argument and attacking me instead, perhaps to cover up your extremely feeble understanding of what it is we are actually discussing.

since you seem to be one of the very few posting here that would actually like to engage in an intelligent conversation, i'd be happy to oblige . our customer is the publisher. they largely determine the budget our projects receive. our customer (and the term "customer" is what is commonly used here when referring to them) is the head of the program that we are currently building software tools for. what happens is that we have meetings with the customer and they tell us what they need and their need date. we go into analysis phase and determine exactly how long we think it will take to deliver what they need, which is almost always far past their need date. they then have the option to negotiate to take features out of the product to get it delivered by their need date. if there are no features they can sacrifice, then they have very few options other than to accept our proposal. one option they have is to go to our department head and express the urgency, in which case more budget may be alotted to our department for hiring more people to work on the project. my team is currently made up of 7 people, 2 of which just joined in the past 2 months. we are starting on some very important tools and they could not live with our estimates, and subsequently we got budget to hire those 2 people. our customer happens to be the most important program in the entire company. if you have already figured out what company this is and you do a very small amount of research, you can find out what program that is. i would tell you, but it is possible that i could get in trouble for divulging information and i don't want to risk it. anyway, they are very important and they are very used to getting what they want. in fact, when we tell them we can't deliver to their deadlines, they usually get pretty irate and start demanding things from the department head (who is my supervisor's supervisor's supervisor's supervisor). she then negotiates with them and (generalizing here) tells them they will need to hand over some budget to get more people on it if they want it by that date. it is not uncommon for weak-willed supervisors to give in to the kind of pressure they exert. luckily, our team's supervisor is tough on that front and doesn't cave. the alternative is releasing unfinished products that will only ultimately result in disappointing the customer and subsequently looking very bad on the records of the developers involved. like in game development, whose publisher facilitates distribution of the product to the end user, our "publisher" is not the one who will actually be using our products. they mainly distribute our tools to outside contractors who use them. i do not see how obsidian developing for lucasarts could be much different. it appears to me that feargus is just not a very savvy negotiator.

Orchomene and SteveThaiBinh, thank you both for adding intelligent input to the conversation. This quality of our arguments seem to be lost on the numerous trolls replying to this thread, who would rather resort to personal attacks (against someone they know absolutely nothing about) than discuss things intelligently, perhaps because they are not capable. Gorth, i'm sorry it is too hard for you to reply to my arguments.

hey, i have an idea! why don't you focus on 1 word from my 1,242 word argument, then try to discredit me by insinuating that i haven't made any games so i must not know what i'm talking about. oh, that's already what you did! luckily for me, any intelligent person will see right through that weak attempt. i have numerous valid points and if you don't care to discuss any of those, or anything else intelligent for that matter, then i don't really care to waste any more of my time on you. Do that trick again Troll - you know, the one where your mouth opens and your head explodes! Man, with your grandiose 2 wpm typing rate, have you ever considered that you're in the wrong occupation? Or is that just natural incompetence? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OMG, the irony! calling me a troll? i was simply replying to the original poster's question with my honest opinion on the matter. and then trying to engage in an intelligent discussion about the subject. on the other hand, what is it exactly that you are doing? well, from the following definition of a troll that i found on dictionary.com, i'd say when you were calling someone a troll, you must have been looking in the mirror and not realized it: "An individual who ... regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net." i know i said i wouldn't be wasting any more of my time on your ignorance, but that was just too ironic and too precious to pass up. and furthermore, how could you possibly have any clue as to how fast i type? and what relevance would that have to this argument? further proof of your trolling.