The usefulness of Guardian Stance vs Enemy AI

[Answermancer]

I believe that entering melee combat wearing a dress (robes) should have some risks to go along with the greatly increased attack speed that you will have.

Again, robe is a strawman anyway, until the Pen system gets updated leather doesn't do much either unless you're fighting lower level enemies.

 

And yes, all those things are true, and I think rogue is okay thanks to its mobility options and status effects (well, once graze is back, one of my "favorite" things in the BB was when my first character took the upgraded Blind and literally never succeeded in applying it over the entire coarse of beating the beta). Less so other classes.

[mostundesired]

Escape gets you clear of a bad situation

I do this.

 

Blinding Stike can make the enemy inaccurate enough to miss on the disengagement attack allowing your Rogue to move away

I do this too. Only problem is when I run out of Guile.

 

Use a reach weapon like a pike or staff and stay out of retaliation range. If the enemy moves they get the disengagement from your Guardian

Not only do I want the option of other weapons, even when I tried this, it didn't work. They stuck to the Fighter. No point in Guardian Stance, no nuance to it. Stand and whack.

 

I think one of the 'strike the bell' effects is a stun

 

Actually haven't tried that. I think it has the same problem as other active abilities, which is admittedly minor.

 

Seems like there are lots of ways for your Rogue to avoid taking undue damage.

Apologies, I made it seem like there were none, didn't I? But anyway, then clearly the problem isn't whether or not they can take a hit. Even minmaxed to 3 con, I've had no problems taking a hit (I found 10 con more reasonable, before anyone says anything). The problem is, as I've been saying, the stance does functionally nothing, so when one has used up all the options listed above, the options are to be at range/use a reach weapon or be tanky. And maybe I'm in the wrong on this, but I tend to burn through these options quickly when enemies turn around to attack my Rogue within seconds... And then don't chase.

 

I believe that entering melee combat wearing a dress (robes) should have some risks to go along with the greatly increased attack speed that you will have.

Did I imply otherwise? Sorry if I did, its not what I meant. My problem is that one of the ways to manage that risk, which should be one of the more reliable ones, has been useless to me (I'm desperately trying to get someone to tell me what I'm doing wrong). Without it, the options dwindle over the course of the fight to be tanky or be range. I think that needs fixing.

[KDubya]

I'm not sure if its a situation where:

 

• the AI is determining that eating a disengagement attack from your specialized disengage (An Unbroken with Guardian stance gets the standard +20 accuracy and +100% damage that all disengagement attacks get, plus a +10 penetration and a prone on hit) is such a bad idea that it is willing to stand there and let your ranged (including ranged melee like pikes) just tee off on them.
• Or its a situation where the AI never eats a disengagement attack and is happy just standing there even if your engager has no credible damage threat.

The first situation would mean that the AI is being 'smart' while the second would mean that the AI can be easily exploited.

 

My limited use of an Unbroken/Shattered Pillar and an Unbroken/Shieldbearer did not really highlight the effects of massive number of engagements leading to massive disengagement strikes (which is what I was hoping for) Instead they were just typical melee guys who were tankier than normal but still killed the  enemy. 

 

Since the AI is not moving away from the engager they are stuck with either hitting the tanky guy or hitting the much less tanky guy (the Rogue) who came into their range. The fact that they are hitting the softer target seems like a good thing to me as far as the AI goes.

[mostundesired]

In the case of the former, we're getting into psychic enemy territory, which is bad imo. They're responding to things that haven't happened and planning for things that they logically can't know. Also, the Unbroken subclass, clearly the designated tank subclass, can't properly utilize GUARDIAN Stance, what? That seems so backwards.

 

I agree, AI targeting more vulnerable of the two is good. I'd say I'm arguing for more of that. Chase after 'em when they run away! Come on, take the bait, just once!