Flames of devotion and dual wield (no spoilers)

[rheingold]

Hi all, just looking for some advice. I'm starting a paladin run for the first time. I have used Pellagina, though normally with an estoc. I have noticed that Flames of devotion works with both equipped weapons if you dual wield. ie it hits twice each time. Has anyone played a dual wield paladin before and had any success? I'm not a power munchkin by any means, but is it worth it dual wielding?

Just to clarify, I'm not interested so much in sword and board. It would be a choice between 2 handers or dual wield.

[Ymarsakar]

It's a full attack, like rogue crippling strike or torment's reach. So it procs both hands in a row, each time you activate ability.

 

Generally for dual wield, the -50 recovery adds about 30-33% attack speed debuff, so you would want to increase the attack speed somehow or use the DR bypass weapons/talents, so that each hit you deal you deal 5pts more damage.

 

Two weapon wield is very good if you have unique weapons in each hand with their peculiar special powers.

 

I tried two weapon wielding on my cipher for a little bit, but I don't have access to many of the more powerful single hand weapons. If I did, I would probably dual wield.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[rheingold]

Thanks for the response, thing is I dual wield a rogue which works really well, but rogues normally have high dex and sneak attack. I just hadn't seen any paladin builds with dual wield, they all seem to be more traditional 2 handed or sword and shield. What concerns me is Paladins are not really about damage so is it worth it to go dual wield and get the talent (20% speed) or it just to much of a compromise trying to make a paladin into something it's not?

[Ymarsakar]

Well that depends on if you are going for the crit dps paladin talents like sworn enemy and flames of devotion.

 

With a few sabres or some other weapon that has +.5 to crit damage, the +20% attack speed buff will make both attacks faster. So it's more like a +40% attack speed vs a two handed sword where +20% is just 1 extra attack every 5 hits.

 

By itself, that's just a few extra attacks per battle. Combined with the fod attack and sworn enemy, and the paladin (with perception buffing accuracy now) can achieve reliable crits.

 

As for whether it is worth it or not, that depends on what you use your paladin the most for. If he is protecting the backline from enemies using the two weapon attack to kill stuff faster, then you'll get good use out of the talent. If you're only using it on a defensive aura paladin, then you won't get as much out of the talent. Especially if your perception and might is lower than say 14 each.

 

So if my paladin has sworn enemy and flames of devotion, and I'm going dual wielding weapons because there's some good unique powers on them, then taking the +20% extra attack speed will be multiplying my abilities. If all my talents are going into healing/support/defense, with no DR bypass talents or buffs, then +20% attack speed won't give you much extra dps in that context.

 

The Pillars Paladin is very hybridy at this current build 2.0 (2.01 patch is to buggy to play for me). It's got great passive defenses and solid melee/martial dps, with very strong single target heals plus group buff auras. It's not a heavy hitting class like the rogue or the cipher or the ranger, but that's because its damage goes down once Flames and Sworn enemy abilities are used up.

 

The great benefit with weapon focus soldier is that it has a warhammer, a pike, and the two handed sword that switches damage between 2 types. So depending on the situation, it can be very useful switching them up, with the primary limitation between actually having good weapons of those types. For example, a pike can be useful in defending the backline because it allows an engagement on target as the enemy runs towards your backline. So it sticks them down sooner and the area the paladin can control with the pike is thus larger. The pike can also be used in corridor fights for melee characters to apply dps without crunching themselves 3 in a row and getting stuck. The warhammer has a special one that gives +1 engagement, for those situations in which you actually need more engagement but wanted to save a talent pick. Two handed weapons are pretty versatile, especially with a low dex build. They're slower, but as a result, concentrates more damage into one small segment of time. Which means that paralyzed or debuffed enemies eat more damage in a single hit than other weapons that might take several seconds to apply their full comparable damage. That's more a consideration with a cipher than a druid or wizard though.

 

I generally go with the two handed version for paladins and a weapon/shield as backup for more deflection or engagement. I like using the pike and the st Rum greatsword for prone on crits. Talentwise, my two handed paladins have +15%dmg if they are the dps version. For dual wielding, I would probably pick the talent with -5 DR bypass. So the dual weapon paladin would be like the greatsword paladin, except the talents needed to apply damage would be slightly different.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[Nobear]

With a few sabres or some other weapon that has +.5 to crit damage, the +20% attack speed buff will make both attacks faster. So it's more like a +40% attack speed vs a two handed sword where +20% is just 1 extra attack every 5 hits.

 

The attack speed bonus doesn't double just because there are twice as many weapons. Yes, it affects both weapons. If it only affected one weapon, it'd work out, on average, more like if it were a 10% bonus. So, in fact, attack speed buffs are equally good whether you have one weapon or two.

[KDubya]

Anther great thing about the Soldier focus is that you get the arquebus, a hard hitting weapon with prone on crit, and the arquebus, the hardest hitting weapon. Start with either and a FoD at the start of the battle and someone's getting rocked. Or save it for later when you want to drop that priest that shows up later in the engagement. You won't be bothering to reload, just one shot per battle but with the +20 accuracy and the +50% flame damage it will be a hard one.

 

One of my top choices for races is the Island Amaumau for the free extra weapon slot. War hammer and shield, pike and an arquebus and you are ready for anything.

 

One reason I prefer going with two handers is due to the limited number of weapons and the way you can't use the same weapon in two different slots. With my two hander set up I just need one good two hander and one good one hander with a shield. Talent wise you'd want the two hander for the damage boost, maybe even grab weapon and shield for the big boost when swapping, but probably better to grab Superior Deflection as it'd work all the time, is only one deflection lower than Weapon and Shield Style but does miss out on the +20 or so reflex boost.

 

A dual wielder needs two good one hand weapons and another good one hander to use with a shield. I find I just run out of enough good weapons. Now if you could have your best weapon be used with a shield or with another weapon that'd bring it down to only needing two good weapons. This would help a lot with single weapon use as well since you could go single weapon for the big accuracy boost and add in a shield or another weapon as you choose.

[Ymarsakar]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416939844

 

Detailed build break downs and some game play mechanic explanations. Applies to 2.0 not 2.01 though.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[lameover]

Applies to 2.0 not 2.01 though.

Changes were made in reality of 2.01 patch.