Primator
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Posts posted by Primator
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Honestly, I made the suggestion in light of two points that have been generally thrown about here and everywhere else (and one other point that I don't believe has been mentioned enough). That is to say,
1: Action speed went from being the most precious thing to have to one of the least since it only affects initiative, which only effects turn order, and going first isn't that important given that in this game there are no enemies which instantly kill you or chain CC. Action speed should give you a benefit, just not nearly as much as it does in RTWP; you certainly shouldn't be able to walk a 20 DEX devoted/streetfighter into a group of enemies and make something like 7 attacks + Mob Stance procs while they make 1.
2: Martial classes took a big hit in the current version of "everyone gets one action" turn-based since you get to make 1 attack per turn, which is almost always inferior to casting one spell per turn unless you've jumped through the hoops and are fully pimped to reliably crit every time you attack. Hence the suggestion to give martial classes access to more attacks per turn, but also to not punish casters for taking action speed. I guess this idea (in hindsight) would also inadvertently fix ciphers, since gaining focus and spending it has a really poor time spent to pay off ratio as it stands right now.
3: (as someone who likes buffs) It's weird that there are now a lot of buffs which are completely free (cough, wizard) and a lot of buffs which take up your whole turn to use (Minor Avatar, the Litany spells, Druid spells like Form of the Delmegan or Nature's Bounty, consumables, which is relevant for Nalpazca fans). Having buffs cost something is reasonable, having them take up your whole turn... not so much. Again, hence the power/stamina bar idea, with buffs consuming a small portion of it. I guess this even applies to all those fast-casting healing spells.
I agree with you. Of course doing 7 attacks in one round would be way too much.
I think the system might be easier to tweak as well once transported from RTWP. Certain actions could be limited to one per round or receive a multiplier for speed (power usage), for balancing purposes.
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... The stamina idea seems appropriate for it at first glance, although one glaring problem I just noticed is it doesn't account for concentration/interrupt.
Now, that's a whole lot of balancing, bug checking, and miscellaneous work to be done. If done right, I think it could be really cool, but hoo boy would our dev bois and gurls have their work cut our for them. Or, they could get rid of rounds and have dex determine turn frequency and balance around that. Honestly, I'm fine with either, but I really think one is more realistic than the other for a free game mode.
I think concentration/interrupt is most difficult to translate into TB anyway, how are you supposed to interrupt anyone?!
I have no good idea for that.
Make it act like a speed debuff for the first action?! Would be still not a reactive action as it is supposed to be.
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I don't usually post here, but here's a fast and loose suggestion for how turn-based could work:- There are still rounds, as is right now. Initiative and movement works as it does right now.- Recovery speed is removed as a mechanic in turn-based- Modals/heavier armor impose a penalty on initiative and action speed.- Heavier armor also imposes a penalty on movement.Each character has a "power bar" (which starts at 100%). Performing an action eats up a portion of that power bar. Each action has a base amount of power it consumes, which is modified positively/negatively by action speed.The main idea is to allow "faster" actions (such as attacking) to be performed multiple times per round and slower actions (casting) to be performed less.E.g. On martial characters:- Base attacks and martial skills (skills which use character's weapons e.g. Flames of Devotion) consumes (rough number) 40% of the power bar, which means you could get 2 full attacks in per round. Having higher action speed means you can get more attacks in, i.e. once you get down to 33% for a base attack (modified by action speed) you can get 3 full attacks in, etc.- The disadvantage is that this system has hard "cut-offs" for when you get more attacks, e.g. there's no point having 37% per attack since you still only get 2 attacks in per round. This could (possibly?) be remedied by allowing unused power to spill over to the next round. As per the last suggestion: you perform two attacks costing 40% each, leaving you with 20% power left over. Next round, you get 100% + 20% power left over from last round, meaning you could perform 3 attacks (40% * 3 = 120%)On caster characters:- 6 second cast spells consume around 90% power, 80% for 4.5 casts, 70% for 3 second cast etc. Like with attacks, action speed decreases power consumed for spells.- Casting spells works as it does now: you target it, then later in the round it is cast. HOWEVER, when the spell is cast, you get to act again, albeit with part of the power bar consumed. E.g. say you have 2 spells you can cast for 50%. You cast the first one, it goes off later in the round. You can now act again, but you have 50% of your power bar remaining.- Short cast spells and buffs (those with 0.5, 0.4, 0.0 seconds casting) cost a small amount of the power bar - respectively 10%, 5% and 0%.As an additional precaution, the power bar can't exceed 200%, i.e. you can't end turn 4 times and then have a round with 400% power bar.
I had a very similar idea, with action points, one point would equal one second in RTWP. Everyone should get a fixed amount of points per turn, speed adjustment would be made to action cost not action points.
Your idea with a 100% power (Stamina?) is even better, cause the numbers from RTWP translate better. If 100% is worth 5, 8, 10 (whatever) seconds of actions has to be figured out.
Every duration effect can be transferred easily to this system as well. Effects should be applied at the next turn, if the target moved already.
If leftover power can be taken to the next round I would cap it more, maybe 30% max and only take 50% of the remaining. Otherwise it acts like an expensive buff.
Spellcasting could be taken to the next round, e.g. you have 50% left and cast a spell that costs 90%, it will be cast in the next round and 40% are deducted.
I don't mind if DEX is considered the best attribute in RTWP or not, it should have a similar effect in TB.
Initiative however should be determined by PER, cause that is the attribute which determines how good you react on situations, DEX just defines how quick your reactive action is.
Engagement has to be default 1 for every character again, otherwise manoeuvring through a horde of enemies feels very strange in TB.
I liked RTWP in older games but in PoE it feels a bit busy, I often just let the AI do the job or stick to auto attack, for 50% of the fight.
I think the older games just didn't have to many skills to manage, especially for non casters.
Really looking forward to see what Obsisian is doing the the new TB system.
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What I'm going to say will sound snobbish, but hear me out.
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Novels based on the Project Eternity universe are going to provide exposition and lore we haven't asked for, deal with issues aren't the point of PoE, tell stories within the strict knowledge of the game, or alternatively ignore world rules and retcon. Man I hate retcons. They are going to be written by Fanboys and literary amateurs. They're going to be constrained by the authors understanding of the game and world lore, which is always going to be less than those who created the world and game.
More importantly, these books, of questionable quality will be canon. Fanboys will come and use the books as arguments of why something needs to be in the next game a certain way.
That thought alone should give you shivers.
Please, no novels in the PoE universe.
Indeed it does sound snobbish, but that's ok, you are not the only one who does.
I see your point regarding the PoE novels.
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But seriously. Life is too short for bad fiction. There are soooooo many good books out there and so little time. It pains me in "that-middle-part-of-my-chest-where-my-heart-would-be-if-I-had-one" when I hear people talking about reading setting fiction like Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, etc.
Don't get me wrong, when I was 13 or 14 I read my share of horrendous Bob Salvatore tripe, so nobody's perfect.
For me that are good books.
I'm well aware that this is not the pinnacle of literature.
It's just easy entertainment while riding the train.I read Tad Williams and Wolfgang Hohlbein as well has some others I don't remember, not sure if they are considered as "not good" as well, but I don't really care, because I like them.
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Recently I was far more disappointed by published games like CoH2 or X-Deadbirth (someone should shoot me for pre-ordering this, I don't have a gun myself)
But your crime was so heinous that you got what you deserved: having to play X-Rebirth.
At least that I could prevent by immediately uninstalling that trash. :D
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Shadowrun Returns
I didn't back but bought it after the release, probably I was one of the few who was happy that they put it on Steam.
I enjoyed it. Of course it had a couple of flaws, but regarding the budget and the sales price, I was fine with that.
The whole crowdfunding / Kickstarter stuff is still quite new, the developers and customers have to make experience still.
If they would have tried to collect 20mio to make a "better" game and double up the time for development, it would have never been successful.
Banner Saga
Didn't back that either and just bought release version.
Actually I didn't even know it was Kickstart when I bought it.
It's a lot of fun, I really like the unusual style. The combat is not very complex but challenging.
I planning to buy WL2 when it comes out.
Recently I was far more disappointed by published games like CoH2 or X-Deadbirth (someone should shoot me for pre-ordering this, I don't have a gun myself)
I'm convinced Pillar of Eternity will be a great, I trust in Obsidian.
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What do I think? Read Dunsany,'s Sword of Welleran, Howard's Kull, Conan and Solomon Kane stories, Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique, Jack Vance's Lyonesse, Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, Fritz Lieber' Lankhmar books, E.R. Eddison's Worm Ouroboros and Michael Moorc.ock's Corum Novels instead. You're life will be better for it.
Thanks for the advice how to improve my life
Just to clarify, will my life be better if I read all this books and not any in the PE universe or can I add them?
Lyonesse I read actually, the others I do not know, but will check them.
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Ohh there are so many which I forgot about
The few I still have in mind are:
Calo Nord from KotOR
Garbad the Weak from Diablo 1 "Something for you I've been maaaaahahahahaking!"
In some game there was an NPC following you all the time after talking to him, cannot remember anything more.
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It seems to me that novels come from either successful pen-and-paper systems, or otherwise largely successful video games like Halo, Mass Effect, etc.
Since PoE is Obsidian's own IP and not a publisher's, I guess that if the story is interesting enough, the game is successful, and Obsidian grants ample creative licence to writers - both in narrative (room for expansion) and legal practice - some writers may take a crack at it.
That's, of course, all correct what you are saying.
I was curious if other people here in general are interested in reading a novel like that.
Would be interesting to know if that is something Obsidian would be interested in as well.
Someone would approach writes in that case or are the writes the once who ask to IP owners? Don't know how this business usually works.
A novella is good start, I saw that, it's pdf only which I personally don't like to read, but it makes sense, since they don't need to spend money on printing.
I didn't know Chris Avellone is a writer as well, in that case he could take care of that himself, but probably will be more busy with designing games.
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Greetings to all of you!
My first post here, I really like what I see about PE and being excited to see more and the final game of course.
But that's not the topic.
I was wondering if there is any possibility that some novels come out which take place in the PE universe?
Not necessarily connected to the story in the game.
I'm reading lot's of fantasy books especially the "Forgotten Realms" stuff.
I'm sure it would be fun to read stories from PE, gathering information about the setting and play the game.
What do you think?
Cheers!
The turn order is COMPLETELY broken. Needs total overhaul
in Beta Feedback for Turn-Based Mode
Posted · Edited by Primator
From my point of view it should be a direct port as much as possible.
Attributes, skills, spells and whatever should have the same purpose/function as in RTWP.
Of course there have to be made adjustment, but the basic idea should be kept.
I believe the power/stamina system Dead Inside suggested is the way to go, at least worth investigating.