High Octane 881
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Posts posted by High Octane 881
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Really wish I could catch some of these great threads before they became so long winded. Overall I'm very optimistic with what Sawyer is presenting us with in this case. It will be refreshing to see a game that not only provides you with options for your characters, but also opportunity for all of those options to be utilized. It's an attempt at more diverse paths/solutions rather than more streamlined/generic linearity.
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I would prefer that there actually is a manual.
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I believe we have begun talking ourselves in a circle.
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Why does the game need a preset mood? It doesn't have to be all one or the other. The IE games mostly had a very nuetral temperment.
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I agree. But....again only so long as it didn't detract from the rest of the game and managed to effect the overall experience of the player. I'm absolutely on your side that there are generally not enough "side-effects" represented in the NPC population as result of story progression in most games. I'm all for a living, breathing world that properly responds to events.
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Lol well at least I think we're all in agreement that the dialogue needs to be deep.
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Supercaleternalicious Soulfulaladocious.
Seems legit.
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I'd rather this game confront complex social issues in the main plot line rather than focus on an immature, black-and-white scenario against an evil mastermind. Sure, if the latter is the case then all this is irrelevant, but do we want that?
Well one of the arguably most common reasons that gamers play the games they do is the pursuit of escapism. Wouldn't it stand to reason (as a general whole) that those mundane situations are exactly what we are wanting to avoid? If it can be worked into a game thoroughly where it actually plays a part within the story and is most importantly fun, then I certainly see no harm in it happening. Simply being in there for the sake of novelty is trivial however and ultimately could detriment the rest of the game as time and assets are moved from other parts of the project.
I'm curious if you could provide us an example of how YOU believe these "complex social issues in the main plot line" could be properly implemented?
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It makes perfect sense to add modifiers to text to denote tone or add gestures, [starts sharpening blade], to show that the PC is expressing themselves in a certain manner because text does not communicate everything that would go on in conversations. Didn't make as much sense to have [iNT] This is you, using your intelligence, apparently something you don't do all the time. I'M BEING PERSUASIVE. I would love to have different success and failure states, different quests and options, different dialogue and conversation, from having speech skills, the original Fallout and Bloodlines did this a bit, and when they did it was fantastic, like The Master and Beckett.
I think where you and I are perhaps reaching a miscommunication is the same systems application as an intention rather than a result. What (it seems) you are implying is I'M BEING PERSUASIVE so there for I am attempting to be persuasive, as opposed to (and why I ultimately would like avoided) I'M BEING PERSUASIVE and therefore because I say I am, it is a fact. I am in fact succesfully being persuasive. Conversations almost never deal in absolutes.
Edit:From the AMA. I hope this holds weight because it's very much along the lines of what I would like:
Chris Avellone: "We are tying responses to attributes, but what we want to avoid in the mechanics is using attributes as "insta-win" buttons (for example, often in previous RPG titles, using the Skill option often is the instant win for quest solutions). What we'd rather do is have attributes and skills open up a range of new information that allows you to make a more informed decision about a choice rather than gate you to a solution.
This may sound complicated, but it's like the Empathy skill in Fallout 1 and 2 - it would only tell you if the person you were talking to would react positively or negatively to your dialogue option, but that didn't mean it was the right option to choose in every situation, and sometimes you wanted to make someone mad to achieve your goal.
Hope that makes sense."
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If conversation skills will have no significant impact on dialogue branching, then I remain unclear why they are even needed.
I'm a little confused how you came to this conclusion. I don't think anyone said they would have no impact. Significant impact is relative anyhow. They should have an effect but not necessarily a measurable one. A conversation is not a math equation . You can't just say [NPC QUESTION] + [PC ANSWER] x [sPEECH SKILL] = [DESIRED SOLUTION]. Or rather, in most games you can, but you shouldn't be able to.
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Touche.
I definitely agree that VtM:B did speech options very well, however they were also quite common, and often did not immediately determine a "victorious" conversation. Really that's my larger concern. I don't want an auto-win button for (lack of a better term) speech puzzles. Make me figure out how to reach the most favorable conclusion for ME. On that note, don't have a "winning" situation for most conversations. Make them have varying outcomes that aren't necessarily good or bad. I think the Witcher 2 was trying to do this but it felt...wrong some how IMO. I really can't put my finger on how though.
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Long Time Coming:
"The wait of eternity"
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It's more tactical in that it wants you to focus more on accompilshing the mission/job/whatever, not exterminating the entire map, squishing every single bag of XP that pops up. Another previous comment makes it sound like there are going to be specific designated rest areas, so depending on how frequent they are, you may be heavily inclined to avoid combat as much as possible.
That's certainly an interesting take on the information we have been provided. A game that discourages you from actually killing ALL the baddies. Then again, if they do decide to remove xp from enemies all together, you may have a very valid argument.
As a side note this thread is getting slightly convoluted.
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Well....a Mcmanusaur thread that actually has potential for a decent conversation. I think all the things that you're describing are little details that are nice to know they're present but no one really wants to see. Unless it's fits into the story why WOULD the adventurers go trekking through the slums of a city? What would they gain by wandering across some poor farmer's fields? In the words of Sawyer himself, if these everyday mundane (although undeniably important) things were added how would it "affects the ways in which players play the game."?
Edit: Also keep in mind this is not a completely open world. The filler is being cut because that's what it is, and in a world this size it would be available in massive quantities.
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There sould be no indicators that you use a stat. Just dialog choices. That some of them are available because you had the right combination of stats/knowlege/reputation its not something the player should know about. Its more natural and makes you follow the dialog without metagaming it. Also it helps with replayability if you make a diffirent character and have completelly diffirent dialog choices
This is actually a good portion of a solution assuming that someone hasn't already metagamed the hell out of that particular conversation. I know seeing that little [iNT] or (Intimidate) for me is so obvious to the point that I don't even bother reading the other options. Ideally the "charismatic" or other options would be added without knowledge that they have been. So basically once [skill or stat] hits a certain level it adds new dialogue options but with no tag or collor change or any other indicator. It's just another option.
The most blatantly obvious argument against Skill > Stat is simple. When is the last time you "practiced" your intimidation? Furthermore how does one exactly get better at intimidating? On the other side of the coin...would you not find an individual who can bench press 300lbs at least a LITTLE more intimidating than a scrawny stick figure, particularly upon initial encounter? Similar examples can be provided for each skill/stat combination.
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I'm really glad this got posted. Seeing a lot of "well this was mentioned once, so it's definitely going to happen" being thrown aroudn right now. Everything is changing at this point so let's not start burning witches just yet.
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I think I just peed myself a little.
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I'm very interested to see how the Cipher class works out so that is my choice for now. As more details are released about the classes I may lean towards Wizard but so far my curiosity is insatiable in regards to the new elements of this game.
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The "dual-bar" system is definitely starting to grow on me. At first I was skeptical but as there is more light shed on it this system makes a lot of sense. As a bonus it seems that is may make some of the more tedious mechanics obsolete. No more resting between every fight? No more strings of healing spells after healing spells just to get my main fighter to full health? I'm all for that. I'd prefer to avoid breaking immersion as much as possible.
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Ditto!
I thought this was an "old school CRPG"? So, why are we stepping away from skill and attribute checks in dialogues and instead are making it "E for Everybody"?
It does appear however that they have the intention of including speech skills to an extent. From what Sawyer said it appears they are wanting to divert from absolute outcomes via speech and head more in the direction of controlled chaos that verbally hashing out a conversation with someone (particularly those that don't share your viewpoints) really is. A conversation typically can't be controlled with one perfect sentence. It takes effort and balance.
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Or perhaps, orcs are known as peaceful creatures. They are dumb and everything, but to be called an orc would be to pay that person respect. "truly you are an orc amongst the Aumaua."
Haha I love the little cultural traits and sayings that come with the creation of new races. One of my favorite examples is in the Mass Effect series when Krogans are always referencing their "quads". It fits perfectly with their culture/anatomy and it's a wonderful little attention to detail that makes a huge difference to me.
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Thank you Hormalakh, I've been catching up and reading through this thread and it's so frustrating seeing people make definitive conclusions based on "concept art" that has been clearly labeled a "work in progress". Please continue with the ideas of what we all feel should and should not be, but I wouldn't exactly take the first two pictures we've seen of this race EVER as absolute.
Me personally...the less human like they are the better. A lot of playable races these days in fantasy universes have gotten very homogeneous and I'd like at least one option that is different. I'm not saying I want to play as a slug but make some variety. That's why you're offering options in the first place isn't it? Honestly I would love to see a game (obviously not happening in this one, but that's totally ok) where one of the player races isn't even bipedal. Again though...please continue with the awesome ideas guys.
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I really like shaking up the generally accepted ideas of godhood and the pantheon staple. It's been done to death by fantasy games at this point. Perhaps Godhood should be a far more vague premise that is placed upon beings that are simply powerful or difficult to comprehend. Stargate and Marvel's Thor take an interesting approach on this with extra-terrestrials being worshiped as gods. Take it to an even more dynamic level and throw in other groups of gods along with that. Perhaps a group that more closely relates to what a deity is generally depicted as, or a group that is depicted as lifeforces that govern certain realms, maybe a being that is more akin to a hivemind (picture the "single-organsim" mushroom in Oregon as sentient), or maybe just large talking animals like in Princess Monanoke. Why do the gods of a single fantasy universe all have to adhere to a single cookie cutter staple rather than being as (or more) diverse as the creatures that worship them?
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If the music featured in the Kickstarter video that was uploaded is any inclination of what we can look forward to I'm very excited. For me one of the most memorable parts of a game is the soundtrack. Years down the road you hear something that hits just the right sequence of notes and sends you right back to an amazing game. In particular with the Kickstarter video's song...the very last bit sends chills up my spine every time I hear it. You're absolutely right though, good soundtracks do not get implimented anywhere near enough now days. The only games that really come to mind as having unique memorable soundtracks are TES...and even most of those are recycled.
Theme music you can hum
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted
Dear fluffy lord for the love of everything unholy please yes! I would love music that makes me jump up out of my chair and run around the house in boxers swinging an imaginary sword (this never happened when I first loaded Skyrim. Never.) Friggin Hobbit's "Misty Mountain" has been stuck in my head for 3 days now.
Seriously though it's a great touch when dev's manage to create a catchy and powerful theme that *fits* the game well.