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Maddas
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Posts posted by Maddas
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Well, to be clear, I don't think anyone is advocating for Project Eternity to be some equivalent of wandering huge walled cities even 50% of the time -- I certainly am not.
All the same, I don't agree with a call to 'balance in all things'. It may be nice to see some aspects of a variety of things in Project Eternity, but I don't think it's a requirement, and I wouldn't call for arbitrary balance of city and wasteland, or similar.
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Agreed.
The problem with "kill one to save many" is that it is based on the premise that you know that killing this guy right now will "save" many later on. And that the "many" had their lives in danger in the first place. For all you know, that cooky witch was full of it.
That, and really, whose fault is it? Your fault for not sacrificing the virgin, or the dragon's fault for burning down the village? And why not try to save both? Maybe you can't win everything all the time, but you should be able to try, and the game shouldn't always play out like some sort of greek tragedy where you are continuously punished for trying and the idea is beaten into your skull that if some old kook tells you to murder a village to save the kingdom that you should do that.
Actually, more specifically, I hate these false 'moral conundrums' where you are supposed to do something bad to supposedly prevent something much worse from happening later on.
To draw a different example, suppose you can rescue a known robber/murderous-thieving-gang leader and set him free -- say, he is being tortured by some unscrupulous bounty hunter whom you don't particularly like. Or maybe the bounty hunter sees you and attacks you.
In this case, you could play 'goody-two-shoes' and release the gang leader, maybe even net a small reward and his 'eternal gratitude' -- maybe his gang will leave your party alone! -- at the same time, this action might have adverse consequences for that region in the near future or down the road -- maybe many people will die, and maybe you and your party will become pariahs (if anyone finds out what you did).
Overall, that is the sort of moral 'dilemma' I support. It's plausible, and ideally, there would be some chance for you to avoid it altogether (e.g., if you had kept your eyes and ears open for knowledge of robbers in the area) -- and there's some chance to, at least, partially, rectify it -- either by killing him or helping hunt down the gang.
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If the setting involves a 'civilized' area, then by definition, there will be cities and villages and so on. That's just how civilization arises.
Barring 'barbarians' or people or cultures that actively seek to live in the wilderness, it makes sense to find settlements and villages and cities, at least among the typical human populations. I don't believe that this needs to be changed for the sake of 'balance'.
On the other hand, if the area is say, more 'mad max' like, then sure, lets do away with villages and cities and keep those down to a bare minimum.
Since I haven't played either Witcher titles, I can't really comment on the specifics, but from what I read, it sounded like you were opposed to having more than a few settlements.
Either way, I don't think Obsidian should be bending their story/setting in search of 'balance'. I think they should just work on writing a good story and setting instead, as they envision it. (Which, I trust they will do)
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OBJECTION!
I say this poll is essentially a giant leading question.
I disagree; even if humor was implemented in some fashion within the context of character perks/traits, stats, or items -- Obsidian would still have the final say on how it's done. Lumping "Yes" and "Maybe" together makes the poll more streamlined, because ultimately it always will depend on how it's done. Having a separate yes option just means that it'll have a small minority of votes and not really show whether or not there is deep opposition to it or not.
I don't think any of us (or... at least, most of us) are interested in playing "Beevis and Butthead visit Middle Earth", or even Fallout in this game, so the way humor is implemented is probably going to matter a lot to us -- and I was curious to see whether or not people had strong opposition to humor period, or whether or not we'd want it in the game depending on how it's done.
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Magical curses could be unintentionally humorous, such as a wealthy and obnoxious baron accidentally being turned into a flatulent pig.
That could even be part of a quest; the baron's estate denies these claims, needs a doppelganger for public show, and desperately needs someone to undo the curse
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Should there be funny (but useful) perks and traits available when creating and leveling your character? And should abnormally low stats/skills (e.g., intelligence) affect dialogue and gameplay in a humorous and not-necessarily-game-breaking way? Finally, should there be items/consumables/wearables that affect gameplay in a humorous way as well?
For example, in the Fallout games, there were perks and traits that would give you bonuses (e.g., to defense and bullet resistances) while lowering your charisma (essentially a terminator-like perk) -- or ones that would cause you to leave a bloody mess wherever you went, or ones that gave you bad luck, etc.
A couple ideas that would be silly but might still fit within a Project Eternity world might be:
- A Tarzan-like Attack/Defense bonus for barbarians that fight naked or in their undies (pixelated); can significantly affect dialog options and wandering around a city may cause swift fines and a difficult time talking to anyone, including party members. Depending on charisma and gender, may result in different reception from other characters -- e.g., you may be thrown in jail for indecent exposure. (Idea from here)
- A cursed trait that affects everyone else around you, but not so much yourself. Similar to 'Jinxed' from Fallout, but essentially affecting others a little more than yourself. This also makes it much harder to recruit and keep companions (either willingly with you, or alive). Can also affect dialog and plot/story options, for example a seer or tribal elder might chase you out of a village or city on account of you bringing bad luck wherever you go. Maybe even a lot of bad luck, depending on how long you stay in a place -- or maybe this could even be rolled into the overarching plot.
As for stats/skills, in Fallout if your intelligence was too low, your sentences would be slurred and speech would take a significant hit. Should something like this be present in Project Eternity? Should abnormally low stats/skills affect gameplay, but not necessarily in a game-breaking manner?
For example, if you had really low intelligence, perhaps your other party members (the few you were somehow able to convince to join you) would speak more often instead of you for dialog with other NPCs.. or maybe they'd be more likely to scheme against you or otherwise be more likely to try and use your quest to their own advantage?
Similarly, perhaps having low-intelligence might make otherwise dangerous encounters somewhat less dangerous -- perhaps NPCs would believe your character too stupid to understand what they are doing, and less likely to try and kill your character or throw them in a dungeon?
Finally, should there be items or wearables or consumables that affect gameplay in a humorous (but potentially useful) way?
For example, maybe there's a particular type of food made in the Swamplands of Whatever, which, when consumed, causes the character to smell so badly that their entire party will be forced to follow at a significant distance. Walking into a city square will cause residents to flee, and any attackers with working sinuses will likely hesitate before attacking you, and will always prefer to stay far away rather than be overwhelmed with your 'odor'. Dogs, wolves, and most other normal animals will also opt to run away from you, potentially making it a useful tool when trying to access otherwise inaccessible (or very dangerous) areas. This item might even be part of a quest (rather than something you can purchase in a store).
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- A Tarzan-like Attack/Defense bonus for barbarians that fight naked or in their undies (pixelated); can significantly affect dialog options and wandering around a city may cause swift fines and a difficult time talking to anyone, including party members. Depending on charisma and gender, may result in different reception from other characters -- e.g., you may be thrown in jail for indecent exposure. (Idea from here)
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Hard realism. There will be EXPLICIT racism, rape, child killings, sociopathic disorder, cannibalism in poor areas, and many other taboos. There are wonderful things out there, but there are no sugar-coating the ugly truths either. Just like IRL.
I'd vote for "Hard realism", but last I checked, most third-world nations, hell, most tribal and 'barbaric' regions of the world -- both present day and historically, didn't come chock full of "racism, rape, child killings, sociopathic disorder, and cannibalism" around every corner. And in poorer areas, I'd wager, people are more concerned with day-to-day survival rather than "Who do I rape and kill and eat next?"
There's nothing "wrong" with a fantasy setting that has some or all of these things somewhere in the world, but no, I'm not interested in playing "J.R.R. Tolkien Presents: Mad Max vs. SAW VII" -- and I don't see why the choices have to be split among these options.
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Why doesn't the poll support multiple options? KOTOR 2 has got no love in the current results, but I would've picked it if there was an option to pick multiple games.
(I mean literally, an option to pick multiple games, not the option "Multiple games")
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I'd prefer there weren't any. No objection to the idea in principle, but given finite resources, I'd much rather go with the assumption that the PC is a heroic type as the starting point, and offer more choices from that perspective. So real dilemmas for someone trying to do the right thing, rather than a whole lot of "do you want to: help for free, demand payment, or kill them and take their stuff?" Which doesn't mean there can't be the option for the PC to be tempted into evil, but it should be a more subtle, the-end -justifies-the-means approach and integrated into the story, not just a play style.
In an ideal world, there could be a whole lot of options for all sorts of PC personalities (perhaps filtered by alignment for practicality), but a limited range done well is better than a superficially wide range where there's no real choice if you want to keep your character consistent.
Agreed. Also, there was a study on how most gamers will make 'good choices' even in games where there are no consequences. So I'd rather there be shades of grey or 'different ways of accomplishing' the "good goals" rather than having more "evil" choices that feels forced (or silly... or dumb)
I liked that KOTOR2 had less of the silly evil choices from KOTOR1, and I think the Mass Effect series did pretty good overall by managing to keep a dual axis of "good/evil" and "lawful/lawless"
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I think having home bases makes sense within the context of a gameworld too... and I liked how Dragon Age: Origins had 'camps' where you could see your party and also some extra people who would come along with you guys.
If you're going to travel from place to place and lug around heavy armor and loot and [realistically speaking] food and water etc. -- you're going to need to be able to set up camp, and also have a place for people to stay in when visiting towns or settlements. Maybe without a place of your own, you'd be paying rent at an inn, but it would be nice to be able to own your own properties in various cities/areas as you can afford and as you progress along the quests.
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I never got to play the BG series or NWN in multiplayer; how did that exactly work? I'm assuming other players are either extra party members, or they share control of them?
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I could see a character like that having a drastic event to their story line where they purposely try to cause a party wipe by stealing or attacking someone in a very powerful friendly or neutral area.What about a slave that absolutely hates you and everything about you yet is forced to serve you becasue of some reason?
And I know there was Dak'kon but he didn't seem to have as much pure loathing as I imagine this character to have.
Or better yet no type at all but everything has basically been done before.
Yes and then they could succed if you are really underleveled or you have to kill them or if you are more corrupt break their spirit even further and re-enslave them to their core.
With souls being a big part of this game you could do some really dark stuff
Yeah, you could probably have some really dark magic (and characters) based on the whole 'soul magic' concept, depending on where it goes.
I'll give this one some more thought then I'll vote. But in the meantime, there is one archtype I most definitely *don't* wanna see: The red-headed female rogue.
Seriously, do you know how over-used that one is?
BG1 had a red-headed female rogue (Imoen)
BG2 had 2 red-headed female rogues (Imoen, Nalia)
Planescape: Torment had a red-headed female rogue (Annah)
Neverwinter Nights had a red-headed female rogue (Sharwin)
Neverwinter Nights 2 had a red-headed female rogue (Neeshka)
Dragon Age: Origins had a red-headed female rogue (Lelianna)
Please Obsidian, buck this trend with Project Eternity.
Thanks in advance.
Definitely agree. If there's gonna have to be a female rogue, maybe one with less memorable hair-color -- or hell, maybe a character like Inara from Firefly.
My favorite party in BG/ToB was when I played smart evil. Edwin, the Dwarf Krogan, Sarevok, Jan Jensen. I like characters with a twist to their nature.
The mysterious old lady appeals to me since that is what I am or would like to think I am. :D
I hope the way characters interact with the main / player will expand on how RPG games have evolved over the years... I mean, beyond the Fallout 1/2x and P:T style -- to how characters worked in KOTOR2 and Dragon Age: Origins. So playing evil or goody-goody could have [substantial] effects (including negative) on your party members.
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The topic of multiplayer came up here, and I was wondering what the community feels regarding multiplayer / co-op as a potential stretch-goal down the road?
Did some searching, didnt yet see a specific topic on it. Is the answer out there and I'm missing it?
Can we expect a Multiplayer option similar to BG/IWD?
For me personally, not being able to play the game with my best friend like we did both the BG and IWD series would suck.
Yarazin
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Where's "Badass old guy"? Thats my favorite archetype. The grizzled veteran that everyone thinks can't carry his own weight because he's old, then comes out swinging and kicks the young pups arses.
Also a character like Pharaun Mizzrym from the War of the Spider-Queen series. Someone who is extremely intelligent and witty, a cynical optimist. Someone who knows everyone and everything is crap, so why let it spoil his good mood.
Agreed!
I can't edit the poll at this point though
I like cynical, doomsayer, sarcastic-humored and tragic characters. Not necessarily all rolled into one. Or, in a pinch, any character whose battle cries don't drive me insane after hearing them 2338 times.
Vizzini.
+1I think some of the archetypes can definitely be combined together, and I would hope that all the ones I voted on make it into the game in some form even though there's only 5 or so slots for companions.
I'd also love to see a character like Archimedes the Owl in this game too.
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I don't really know who the audience for a translation would be. If you're intelligent enough to use a computer, you probably also know English.
It'll incur alot of extra costs to get good translations, and dubbing is can be questionable.
Also, I think anyone pledging through Kickstarter probably knows english well enough to be able to play and enjoy this game in english.
I'm not against having multi-lingual options, but if budgets are an issue, I have to kinda side with english-only -- especially in a game where story and lore will matter this much.
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KOTOR 2 at least was buggy because of an unreasonably truncated development time. Can't speak for their other products.
There was a TON of cut content from KOTOR 2. There's a mod that restores it, but AFAIK, this was all due to lack of time because of publisher demands.
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Where's the horrifying construct? Is there a trope for that? I'm talking HK-47/One-of-Many type guys.
I miss HK-47 as well, but I'm assuming that we won't be seeing soulless mechanical creatures in this game.
I settled for "Sociopathic Hero" as the closest "second" I could find.
Not necessarily in a meaningful way. Which of the listed archetypes does Fall-From-Grace fit under? And does that explain why people like her as a character?That said, everything can eventually be reduced to a trope
That's a good point. I thought Kreia was more akin to the 'Shadow', but I should add that one too.
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I love being able to upgrade my crib!
But in most games, whenever I find the option to do so, I have already amassed enough wealth to buy everything at once, so I almost never actually see my love nest grow. If they implement a feature like this, make sure it's difficult to reach the highest upgrades.
Along with this, perhaps the flipside to this argument is that it should be possible to have some upgrades early on -- or rather, have upgrades spaced across the game. That way I may be playing the game early on, but I can add in a library and study to my small home, or buy an anvil and have it dropped off so I can forge or sharpen my own weapons in my out-of-town shack.
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Definitely; I have no interest in seeing some 2D character -- and honestly, I completely trust Obsidian to do a good job with the characters in the game.This is inevitably going to lead to a "please no stereotypes, Obsidian" thing. So I'm just going to go ahead and assume these are the most barebones foundations of characters were talking about here. Because everything can eventually be reduced to a trope.
That said, everything can eventually be reduced to a trope, and I hope we might be able to capture what we enjoyed and what we'd like to see through a poll and discussion!
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In the Kickstarter stretch goals, a player house is mentioned:
Get your own house in the game that you can customize, store equipment in, and where your companions hang out, or, as the elves say, "chillax".However, no mention of whether it's just 'a house', a hideout, a base... whether or not it can be upgraded or not. I mean, it seems like you can adjust the furniture and so on -- but perhaps it could be upgraded in other ways too -- both functional and aesthetic?
For example:
- Going from a shack to a city mansion would not only lend you extra storage space, but perhaps have companion-benefits as well. And I wasn't thinking specifically of 'romance', but your companions might be in a better mood if they were sleeping on real beds rather than on the grass. Perhaps paid companions would be much cheaper if they had a place to stay for free as well?
- Depending on how notorious or infamous or wanted you are, picking a place that is well hidden might lend you additional bonuses as well. Perhaps buy you some time to avoid bounty hunters, or even to protect your stash(es?) from thieves.
- With a full estate or some 'training grounds', perhaps there could be benefits to skill gain or for one companion to teach another companion some skills?
- Perhaps your hideout, base, or estate could be upgraded defensively, so that if you were attacked by either would-be mauraders or a small pursuing army, you would be able to fend them off or defeat them?
- If multiple locations are possible for these things, perhaps in your 'home city' you could own an estate, but in more dangerous territories, have a cave hideout? Maybe your archmage companion, once you've gained his trust and pursuaded him -- could seal it with a stone, for example.
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- Going from a shack to a city mansion would not only lend you extra storage space, but perhaps have companion-benefits as well. And I wasn't thinking specifically of 'romance', but your companions might be in a better mood if they were sleeping on real beds rather than on the grass. Perhaps paid companions would be much cheaper if they had a place to stay for free as well?
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Well, I saw the kickstarter update, and I figured, lets start a discussion on character and companion archetypes!
Base game includes three races, five classes, and five companions. We have ideas for these, but we want to hear your opinions on what you'd like to see. Stay tuned to Kickstarter, our website, and our forums to join in on the conversation.So which archetypes interest you the most? We've probably seen a few of these in past games, and maybe we'd like to see some of them return in some spirit or another!
If you have one in mind and it's not in the list, post it here and add it to the discussion!
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For me 2 options are best:
1. Only humans with other races and creatures being extremely rare (like a fairytale eh)
2. No humans or traditional races (like Talislanta) for a completely alien and otherworldly feel
Considering all the talk about souls, its pretty certain that the game was considered with humans at least in mind.
Its just that I'm tired as hell of the dwarves, orcs and elves. I can't stand them any more.
But I would settle to some other new race, as long as it isn't derivative.
Agreed.
I would like to see either fairytale 'races' or 'races' from mythical lore that we already have developed as civilizations IRL: centaurs, minotaurs, cyclopses, jinn, deevs, etc. -- and that's just off the top of my head from Greeco-Persian mythology.
There's a lot of great mythology and lore already built into our 'real life' history, that stuff could be used in an alternate setting.
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moral relatively
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted
I think we're in violent agreement.
My example was of a scenario where you were not necessarily aware that the person being tortured was a murdering bandit.
I too, hate when there are 'moral dilemmas' where the options are all clearly dumb. The worst example of this in a recent game I played would be the first Knights of the Old Republic. While a fun game overall, your options were primarily limited between being a goody two shoes and a malevolent and dumb ****.