Opus132

Heh, tried to use a few scrolls and they actually work pretty good. I wonder, do proc on kill abilities work with scrolls? Like if i kill someone with a fireball, that does count for that Bleak Walker talent that causes aoe fear?

Here's my handsome Bleak Walker in all his glory:

Alright, well, i'm tired of waiting for this patch, so i decided to just start the game and opted for this: 20 6 15 15 15 7 Former mercenary and captain of his own squad, my guy (whom i named Rasczak, heh), known for his cunning as a strategist, fighting prowess and brutality in battle, has been worn down over countless wars. Tired of partaking in so much bloodshed (hence the lowish resolve), and left severly wounded in his last campaign (hence the low constitution), but unable to change what he is at a fundamental level (a merciless killer), he has abandoned his former life to walk the path of the Bleak Walker, his only purpose in life that of bringing an end to bloodshed, by any means necessary, joining causes and taking up contracts with the sole aim of ending matters that could spiral in open and prolonoged hostilities swiftly and as decidely as possible, while keeping as much distance from his former life as possible. This guy will focus fully on lore btw so i can make use of the high dexterity in more than one way, to make up for the paladin's weakness with his autoattacks by supplementing them with casting scrolls when needed (and since he is in the frontlines he will likely want to cast them quickly). The low health should trigger fighting spirit often, and the fact i can just stick to dual wielding for my FoD attacks i don't have to bother with a ranged weapons leaving the second slot free to have a shield at the ready in case i need to off-tank on a pinch. Having so many speed bonuses will also allow me to wear the heaviest armor possible, which can also make up for the low constitution. Later on i may end up respecing, taking some points out of perception if items can supply enough accuracy and bump intellect to max if i see i need it for Sacred Immolation and perhaps bump constitution as well a bit if it's truly possible to get one shot in PoTD with lower than base constutition, or if Sacred Immolation just eats me up until i die every other fight.

That's interesting, but like i said i tried a Darcozzi run before so i'm going Bleak Walker specifically to try something completely different (roleplaying wise). Does Remember Rakhan Field work with Sacred Immolation? Because i think getting a damage boost on grazes and hits should somewhat compensate for a few less crits.

You can use Liberating Exhortation on yourself? Isn't ally only?

Alright, i think i got the gist of it: 1) Paladin autoattacks are weak no matter what and if you are boosting them it's only because there's not much else the paladin can do anyway after popping FoD. Of course, much of what boosts FoD also boosts autoattacks so this is mostly moot anyway. 2) Dexterity has diminishing returns if you reach zero recovery but it's still useful even then. If i were to boost this i think i should probably put points in lore to use scrolls so i got something else to do besides the autoattacks. If nothing else, it would add variety to the play style and make the speed boost count for more since scrolls benefit from it. 3) Perception is useful early on but later it becomes less so once you rack up accuracy through items, buffs, leveling etc. 4) By contrast, the more deflection you have the better, and that's apparently always the case. Since paladins are naturally tanky, it's better to capitalize on this on some level. So the grand conclusion from all this is that keeping everything at base and bumping might and int is the best course of action (lawl). I could still likely take a bit out of constitution and resolve (but not too much) and add a few points here and there either in perception for early on or dexterity but there's nothing major i can do in either case. At least i learned a thing of two about the game trying to figure this out.

BTW, one thing i'm confused about in the build. The Sanguine Armor triggers a frenzy effect when you are subject to a crit. Can the self damage from Sacred Immolation actually crit you? Because i can't imagine this build hinges on enemies critting your paladin, especially with Sacred Immolation on i don't think you want enemies to hit you if you can help it.

BTW, sorry for all this idle talk but i'm keeping myself occupied while i wait for this patch (hoping the "coming weeks" doesn't translate into months). Anyway, i'm thinking with a lower constitution (say around 8 or 7) i might trigger fighting spirit faster. I heard you can actually get one shot by some enemies with a constitution of 8, but if you are popping Sacred Immolation you gonna be below that threshold anyway meaning you are already playing your paladin like a rogue, getting into melee range but avoiding actual melee engagement if possible. In fact, given how deflection works it would even feel like playing a rogue of sort. Reguarding lowering resolve, there's that low level potion that gives you a good boost in concentration so i could afford to lower it a bit and use that if interrupt is an issue. I could lower constitution to say 7, resolve to 8, and put those 5 extra points for dexterity and perception. There's also three permanent stat bonuses in the game (one involves having a cruel disposition but that's a no brainer for a Bleak Walker) where i would end up with at least 14-15 in dexterity, perception and intellect to be boosted further with items, food and buffs depending on the situation.

I guess this depends on just how bad auto attacks are on a paladin. Whether they are just underwhelming compared to DPS classes but still worth boosting if possible or whether they are just so outright useless as to make it not worth it to even bother with them at all (just dump dexterity altoghether and play tank after popping both FoD attacks). Looking at Blunderboss's build and i see he has some items that improve attack speed. Is Sacred Immolation affected by attack speed? If not, why bother? Why bother even take two weapon style, if it's all about maximing FoD (you want dual wielding because FoD hits twice but not two weapon style as such)? Since you get two Flames of Devotion per fight it's not like speed matters, you can just use it when you know it's gonna land at the right time you want it to land. Of course, since the priority is Sacred Immolation, and since you don't get many points left to spread between dexterity and perception (even if you dump constitution and resolve), this may be just an academic question. Blunderboss leaves all the stats at 10 but suggests to dump intellect and raise perception a bit before getting to level 13, which does suggest he doesn't think dexterity is that important for his build (or not as important as perception for early on). If i start with his stat distribution, take out 5 points by dumping both constitution and resolve a bit, and put in dexterity, would that be worth doing? Or are auto attacks on a paladin so worthless as to make even a small loss in constituon and resolve not worth the trade off?

Yeah, i saw that dexterity is still usefull even if you reach zero recovery but according to the math there it's not AS useful at that point meaning if there's an hard choice between dexterity and something like perception you can opt for the latter assuming you can reach zero recovery by other means: Since all stats seem to be useful for something, min/maxing appear to be possible only if putting points in a stat isn't as valuable as before based on some specific circumstance. On that dual wielding paladin, the fact i can make dexterity less valuable if i were to achieve zero recovery means i can focus on perception more to boost FoD or Sacred Immolation. If i were to make a two handed paladin, it might be worth it more to trade some perception to boost dexterity and so on. Then again, maybe it's possible to reach a point where accuracy starts to get diminishing returns as well meaning you are back to square one. Same concept if i were to make a dual wielding rogue, and i had to make a choice between dexterity or might, i might pick the latter to help me punch through DR IF i were to reach zero recovery meaning i'm not getting as much out of dexterity as before. This game is pretty hard to figure out from a min/max point of view btw, and i'm assuming that was by design.

Alright, found this: I guess there's no need to repeat yourself, heh.

BTW, i don't know if should ask here but the relevant threads in this forum are so old now i don't know if bumping them would be considered an act of necromancy. I just want to make sure i understand how attack speed works in this game. I understand there are different aspects to an attack, which is the attack itself, the recovery, some kind of brief idle time between the two, and then if you use guns you got reloading to worry about. From what i understand, all the speed bonuses in the game only affect recovery (i think there's also some that affects reloading time for guns not sure), while dexterity affects ALL of them. I also understand the dexterity bonus is linear, meaning there's no diminishing returns or anything like that. Every point you put in dexterity is just as valuable as the one that came before all the way to however high you can get dexterity in this game. However, i also read somewhere that it's actually possible to drop recovery to zero, thus making the dexterity bonus less effective? Would that come into play when deciding how much dexterity you want on your character from a min/max perspective? Not on a paladin i guess but maybe for a rogue. I also understand accuracy COULD potentially become less valuable if you get it high enough but it would have to be so high as to make the question academic, right? I also remember reading somewhere (God knows where, it was two years ago) that if you keep piling on damage modifiers, the value of accuracy is diminished. I think it was something like that, if you aren't gonna get crits (say, on PoTD, where you would need a very high accuracy), you might as well pile on damage on hits and graces, which seems relevant to the Bleak Walker build Blunderboss devised, with all those lashes, corrodes etc. I understand even on PoTD getting super obsessed about min/maxing isn't necessary, but i find this theorycrafting stuff entertaining on it's own (also, i'm currently in limbo since the patch is coming).

That's interesting, didn't think about interrupt being a factor. I knew there had to be a catch because it felt too easy. So i'm basically better off just go with this slight variation over the stat distribution of that Bleak Walker build: 20 8 10 15 15 10 Or something along those lines (dump constitution even further, sqeeze some points to dexterity etc). This is if i want to try a no respec challenge meaning this distribution would have to carry me before AND after level 13. With 10 resolve and some buffs from food etc i could double as off-tank on a pinch by keeping a 1h weapon and the Outworn Shield on my second weapons slot. I was going all out on damage because of the "theme" of the Bleak Walker being a killer but maybe i better play it safe. I'm playing on PoTD with Expert Mode on while also trying to do as little reloading as possible, sort of training myself for a future Iron Mode run that's why i'm trying to power game a bit. BTW, i tried a Darcozzi two-handed build a couple of years ago but i never finished that playthrough because of various circumstances. I decided to go for a Bleak Walker this time around specifically to try something different, not in terms of class per-se but roleplaying style. Of course, i suppose there's nothing prevent me from trying around two-handed weapons even with this build, at least until i get the two-weapon style talent or i get my hands on Bittercut.

Alright, so let's assume i start with this (as a human with living lands background): 20 8 18 18 10 4 I could dump con to 3 and raise int to 15 to really make the ultimate glass cannon but i don't know if i really want to go that way. So now i get to 13, get sacred immotation and want to respec to an high int, dropping dexterity since perception is useful for sacred immolation. OR, if i wanted to make a build that doesn't require respecing, i could go like this: 20 8 16 15 15 4 Or any variation of thereof giving or taking out of dex, per or int depending on how i feel like it.

Ok, so after reading up here and there it seems dexterity actually matters after all as autoattacks aren't completely useless with this build. So the actual dump stats would be constitution and resolve, if i were to min/max this to hell to increase dps as much as possible.

So i wanted to try the following build or something close to it: However, i'm playing on PoTD in Expert Mode, and since i'm not going to be able to know all the stat requirements for all dialog checks before hand i'd like to at least have 14 base resolve so i can cover most cases just by applying some basic bonuses before hand and keep my resolve as high as i can at all times. Now, i instinctively feel for a build like that i can just dump dexterity and maybe constitution too, but i'm not sure if there are "caveats" i'm not aware of yet. I wouldn't mind being able to raise perception too a bit but i think that would just be pushing it. [EDIT] Upon further reflection, it seems the question of whether dexterity is useful or not is whether anything else a Paladin does after unloading FoD is worth actually boosting. Am i correct?

Wait, did they fix the extra Flame of Devotion you get when attacking before engaging into combat? I just tried it by stealthing close to a mob (just close enough to reveal it while remaining undetected), then selecting Flame of Devotion and targetting an enemy but the moment i do that combat starts and the Flame of Devotion count goes down by one. How does this work exactly?

Wow, i just got to the first inn. Didn't expect the respec to be so cheap. That makes it worst since now build paralysis will haunt me through the whole game, hahaha. I was looking over your Counselor Ploi build, and i'm having a strong urge to try that one instead, but i'm not sure i want to restart. As a human Darcozzi, i'd be missing out some of the clever synergies you came up with, but i suppose i may still make it work. While i love the two handed paladin archetype, it feels a bit underwhelming in this game. For instance, it really feels i would be better off wearing light armor if i want to maximize dps but that just messes with my brain and it feels at that point i might as well just go with a barbarian. With your build though, it feels i could actually fulfill my original intention as i can still throw a bit of two-handed fighting into the mix, either forgo the alpha strike or the Outworn Buckler on certain encounters depending on how i feel like it (or take that talent that increases weapon sets and keep all three options open at all times). It feels the Paladin doesn't have a whole lot to do once the FoD charges have been spent anyway so it seems once i unloaded everything it really doesn't matter what i do, whether i play defence or offence or just fumble with a scroll, heh.

I think i got it now. One final question though, if i had to drop either dexterity or perception to base (say, to make him a bit tankier by raising resolve etc), which would i pick? I understand it's all situational, but i'm still confused regarding action speed while wearing heavy armor, whether it is worth trying to fight the penatly by raising dex or just give up and focus on accuracy instead. I'm confused because in my head dex is associated with fast action, rogues, dual wielding etc, but this game seems to have it's own logic where all the classic tropes may not apply.

It's the first check you get in the encampment, where you tell the guy holding the rogue hostage to straight up murder him. I think they were going for a Clint Eastwood routine (go ahead, make my day), but it still came off as a bit harsh. If i were playing on expert mode, i might be confused by lines like that. BTW, i just saw a post saying that Might has diminishing returns over time as you get more bonuses on damage from items and buffs? Not sure i understood why, but i wonder if that would allow me drop it down a bit, perhaps to 15. Then again, there's Sacred Immolation to think about, and healing.

So many needed attritubes, so few skill points. Let's say i go with something like this: 17 7 14 14 15 10 I'll go Darcozzi since i've played the high resolve, stern holy Paladin a million times (it's my favored role), so i might as well try something new (i'll probably still max the benevolent disposition anyway). As a Darcozzi, i'll be skipping FoD entirely as from what i understand it is better in the hands of dual wielders beause it procs twice with two weapons, right? Now you have suggested all the ways to boost concentration with a lowish resolve, so there's nothing else to say there. I hope 10 will be enough. Would it be better to drop Dex at base instead o trying to fight with the speed penalty of heavy armor? Seems like unless i really focus on it it's a losing battle, especially with a slow weapon. I could bump Might more, take Con to base or raise Perception an extra nick. Speaking of which, is it true that Perception helps with Sacred Immolation? I also hope 15 is enough as far as Int goes. I heard the radius of Paladin auras is pretty small.

The Darcozzi seems like an interesting choice, it just depends on the kind of roleplaying i would have to do to keep the disposition intact. If i'm playing a clever character i wonder if it would be worth it to drop the Resolve to the base 10. I tested the first resolve check and wasn't exactly what i was expecting. I don't want to play a bully.

New to this game. I was looking to recreate the Paladin from my Infinity Engine runs. I understand the system of this game doesn't entirely support it but i'm looking for a way to make a viable build that can either tank or dps on a pinch, the latter while using two handed weapons. As far as stats, so far i came up with something like this: 17 7 12 13 15 14 I sacrificed constitution in hopes all the resistances Paladins get will make up for the lost hit points (for the record, Eder will share tanking duties). I'm playing a human as well for RP reasons and a smaller health pool migh trigger their racial more often. Perception, intelligence and resolve are at an high baseline enough to be able to cover most dialogue options with a few buffs from items or consumables. I was thinking of actually lowering resolve a tiny bit (perhaps get it down to 12) since i've seen there are a lot of ways to raise it, even up to 20 (the highest check as far as i understand it), and perhaps bump dexterity to 14. From what i understand, slow weapons actually benefit a good deal from dexterity, and good accuracy from perception is also needed. I'm thinking of actually not picking any fighting style at all, so i can also add a single 1H weapon into the mix. Lastly, i'm picking Kind Wayfarers because of the healing abilitiy (and also because i like to play the goodie Paladin), which ought to compensate for the low constitution. Supposedly dual wielding is a better option for Paladins but i can't wrap my head around using sabres and stilettos while walking in full plate armor as a Paladin. It just doesn't compute in my brain.