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ok, to clarify, is there a way to solve the quest the Rongi's way, i.e by letting the seed develop and not interfering with Tamau's "prosecution"? by waiting long enough for instance? the original post suggests that telling Mukumu the truth kind of does that, but is it intentional, or a bug? Mukumu's reply is a bit unclear, since he just says that "at least one guy will die for that", and it might also mean that they'll eat the fruit instead of letting it grow. 

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ok, to clarify, is there a way to solve the quest the Rongi's way, i.e by letting the seed develop and not interfering with Tamau's "prosecution"? by waiting long enough for instance? the original post suggests that telling Mukumu the truth kind of does that, but is it intentional, or a bug? Mukumu's reply is a bit unclear, since he just says that "at least one guy will die for that", and it might also mean that they'll eat the fruit instead of letting it grow. 

 

I went ahead and just left the quest for now. It was odd that there was no "resolution" to lie to Mukumu. Will see how it goes. Also Tikawara seems to have a whole faction icon dedicated to them in the Reputations menu. Perhaps they will play larger part in the future?

Edited by Aridea
Emissary Tar: At last, someone who looks like they could be of some assistance! The assorted boobs and dimwits around here have been of very little help.
 
Charname: I’m afraid you have mistaken us for someone else. I’m Dimwit, this is my good friend Boob, and behind me you’ll find Brainless and Moron. How do you do? 
 

 

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Well there is this lined mined as one of the potential ending.

 

Rongi knew I'd discovered his stash of koīki fruit. He must have moved the stash and talked to Mukūmu, because Tamau has been executed for the theft.

 

So probably just discover him on the beach at night and leave the quest running until Tamau dies, as Rongi suggested.

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This is a good quest to think about in terms of endgame resolution. 

2 factions are indifferent at best, and want this sort of thing to continue, for different reasons.

1 wants the islanders as a welfare state, to ensure continued labor and cooperation. 

1 wants well-fed vassals with little to no internal governance. 

Also there are fampyrs who want to eat the islanders, I guess. 

Magran's fire casts light in Dark Places...

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  • 1 month later...

To answer the original poster, the quest text is kind of awkward, but the reason they say you framed Tamua is because you essentially let the executioner guy believe it was him.

 

I have a question though, does this affect Tikawara's ending at all?

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“I have 300 koiki just sitting in my boat. Give me that guy and you can take them” should definitely have been a possible solution.

I think you can actually ask about that but if you notice (you might need perception, I don't recall), the guy who's doing the "prosecuting"? He's a giant self-important stick-swinging douche, even if he is trying to do his job competently, he's all bravado. He takes it as a point of pride and position to punish whoever committed the crime (somewhat rightfully if unequally), so when you ask about it he turns you down. Or at least speaks in such a way that he gave me the impression it wasn't about the fruit, but was instead about making a statement with the punishment. Something he apparently feels he needs a body floating in the harbor for. Plus the whole 'pacifying the gods' angle he mentions.

Edited by Rheios
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Despite they lack of options, I actually liked this quest. It's not easy for me to decide what to do. A good character would help the innocent but the village would lose the food.

 

They could add some interesting options:

 

- You say you were sent by the Vailians and sell overpriced fruit (or other food) to the chieftain. He would smile and claim it was a good deal :facepalm:

- You could try asking Berath if they need to eat the seeds in the ritual. Regardless of getting any answer in this insignificant matter, maybe you could do some trick with souls by yourself and convince them to change the ritual, keeping the seeds to make more fruits

- And there is also that unused kith meat in the inventory... :biggrin:

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Am I the only one who got everyone to survive on this quest? 

You have to examine the village, confront the culprit, show the evidence to the accuser, then tell him you don't know. 
He hems and haws, but won't kill the guy with signs pointing elsewhere. 

 

Village is still screwed though. 

Magran's fire casts light in Dark Places...

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Am I the only one who got everyone to survive on this quest?

 

You have to examine the village, confront the culprit, show the evidence to the accuser, then tell him you don't know.

He hems and haws, but won't kill the guy with signs pointing elsewhere.

 

Village is still screwed though.

Wait really?

 

But then the fruit thing is ruined right?

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Am I the only one who got everyone to survive on this quest?

 

You have to examine the village, confront the culprit, show the evidence to the accuser, then tell him you don't know.

He hems and haws, but won't kill the guy with signs pointing elsewhere.

 

Village is still screwed though.

Wait really?

 

But then the fruit thing is ruined right?

No one gets punished, so I'd assume they keep doing what they were before.

Magran's fire casts light in Dark Places...

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I brought the following up during the beta, and it was flagged for attention for the devs, but I don't think anything was done about it.

 

My main issue with this quest is, you can't side with the dude who is trying to harvest the seeds, even though there is a dialogue option saying the Watcher will go along with his idea.

 

In nearly every other quest/task in the game there is actual reactivity and choice.  Can even side with slavers and fampyrs to finish quests if one wants.

 

But unless something has changed that I'm unaware of, one MUST get the dried seeds out of the place that guy is trying to get them to grow to finish the quest.  Even if the Watcher has agreed not to turn him in and to let him continue on trying to grow more fruit. 

 

I could even see making it an 'unhappy' ending by going along with the charade and having the 'innocent' man die while protecting that other guy's experiment.  I personally don't like that as an option, but it's better than what's there at the moment.

 

Of course, I'd prefer an ending where one could let the guy's experiment continue apace, even if he's punished.  Maybe even severely.  Put it behind hard-to-nearly-impossible checks or super high reputation if one must.

 

Just irks on more than one level that one is 'forced' to recover the seeds to finish the quest (though I recall someone saying something about returning months later and having something different happen; but I haven't seen anyone else comment on that).

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You have to examine the village, confront the culprit, show the evidence to the accuser, then tell him you don't know. 

He hems and haws, but won't kill the guy with signs pointing elsewhere. 

He gems and haws, cuts the guy loose, and then makes him walk into the ocean. That’s killing him (for some reason).

 

Would be funny if he shows up on your boat as a stowaway.

“Yeah, I went underwater... but yer boat was right there!”

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You have to examine the village, confront the culprit, show the evidence to the accuser, then tell him you don't know.

He hems and haws, but won't kill the guy with signs pointing elsewhere.

He gems and haws, cuts the guy loose, and then makes him walk into the ocean. That’s killing him (for some reason).

 

Would be funny if he shows up on your boat as a stowaway.

“Yeah, I went underwater... but yer boat was right there!”

I wish I could just take him with me or something. My boat's right there.

 

But yeah, you see his dead body in the water. :/

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I wish I could just take him with me or something. My boat's right there.

 

But yeah, you see his dead body in the water. :/

At least it will benefit corpse eaters, if they ever include fishing. ;)

Hahaha. That's wonderfully messed up.

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  • 6 months later...

I just had to blow some life into this thread to air my intense dissatisfaction with this quest/task (plucked Fruit). I hate these faux moral choices that 1, isn't really a choice and 2, isn't moral - it's just stupid. I blame George Martin (RR) for this s**t. Stop trying to break the role-play, and basic logic, by making me choose who has to die when any rational being should be able to figure out a better solution than what is on offer.

 

If you don't care what the moral option is then fine, argue that the a**hole has it coming. But ponder this: anyone who makes that argument seems like an a**hole to me; should I have the right to kill you on trumped up charges? No, I would argue. And why do I, and my character, have to make that choice? Because some irritating s**t thought it "edgy" to subject people to moral dilemmas. Well, it is a moral dilemma only if you restrict the possible choices down to two, which is never actually the case. So the premiss is flawed: so flawed in fact that I feel quite justified in using harsh language, not that anybody will actually care enough to change these things. I guess that's the problem with having voiced all the dialogue, you can't make any changes. But here's my problem, what is the most important break in immersion; flawed quest design or a few missing lines of voiced dialog?

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the game, quite a lot actually, but these things spoil an otherwise good experience as it completely breaks immersion for me. And what's worse is that it isn't a small bug, or even a big one, but something which is part of the design. So it won't be ever be changed. And I have to either not play the game, which actually is what I'm considering at the moment, or not let it effect me.

 

But that ship has already sailed, it has effected me. I think the straw that broke the camels back was getting money (in the game, let's not get  crazy here) for having perjured myself and getting a man wrongfully convicted for theft which resulted in his sentence of death. You might think that it doesn't make a difference, but it does, it means that the quest designer felt it necessary to "reward" my choice with money, and I have no way of turning it down by the way. So the designer was willing to break narrative so that I would get rewarded, but, somehow, to make an actual moral choice is too much? Why is it a break in narrative? If the NPC has 100 (or 400) cc's to reward me, and koiki fruits cost 7 cc's (or whatever) then I can go and buy the d**ned fruits for him to plant, and should he be executed for theft anyway he could go to his grave knowing that he saved, or at least tried to save, the village. That is just one of many possible solutions to the problem, which would have taken a couple of minutes in a word processor to correct.

 

One of the reason this will never get adressed is that I'm the a**hole in this. I'm using bad language and criticising, so this will never be taken seriously, not that it would anyway. But what are my options? I've spent quite a lot of hours studying this game and waited until it was completed to the point where most of the bugs were ironed out to play it properly, and I did so without complaint, with an understanding of the need of the prolonged development cycle of crowdfunded games I might add, only to have my experience tainted by an easily remedied minor quest. Just remove it if you feel that you can't fix it. It adds nothin but aggravation.

Edited by Baldiedash
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Holy thread necro, batman!
 

But that ship has already sailed, it has effected me. I think the straw that broke the camels back was getting money (in the game, let's not get crazy here) for having perjured myself and getting a man wrongfully convicted for theft which resulted in his sentence of death.

 
You can just not perjure and just out Rongi as the one who stole the fruit. Why didn't you just do that? It seems exactly like what you want--he basically dies knowing he tried to save the village.
 

by making me choose who has to die when any rational being should be able to figure out a better solution than what is on offer.


I seem to remember outcomes in which no one dies, e.g. Rongi doesn't get outed, and Mumakau goes to kill Tamau but then decides that Tamau isn't worth it, or something like that. I could be wrong, I skim a lot of the time.

 

Also it might surprise you to learn that even in real life, people are not perfectly rational beings. The whole point of the quest is that the tribe at Tikawara is so wrapped up in its social traditions and hierarchies that the huana will do something that is actively harmful to their future, if it means retaining their social order, and the only way to subvert that is to lie to protect a secret. You can blame George RR Martin or whatever, but I call it "mature writing that depicts the shades of grey in an imperfect society", that you can't always have your cake and eat it too and sometimes doing a greater good requires committing some small sins, and it's up to you to decide whether or not that calculus is worth it.

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Holy thread necro, batman! 

 

Thanks, I had to pull out the Necrotelecomnicon search function for this one. But I just encountered the quest and after having tried a few solutions found that it irritated me more and more.

 

You can blame George RR Martin or whatever, but I call it "mature writing that depicts the shades of grey in an imperfect society"

 

I don't find it very mature mostly because I don't find the depictions of the societies, or the psychology of the characters, in the books of George Martin, or in Pillars of Eternity, that convincing. I can accept the greyness of the world but the absence of colour and sloppy shading doesn't make for a very good picture.

 

Or... you just don't finish the quest.

 

I can usually smooth over the odd glitch and irrationality to keep the immersion going, but this, for some reason, just ticked me off. The absence of an actual moral solution just seems so pointless.

 

I will try to return to a state of blissful ignorance but it will take some very wilful ignoring on my part.

 

You can just not perjure and just out Rongi as the one who stole the fruit. Why didn't you just do that? It seems exactly like what you want--he basically dies knowing he tried to save the village.

 

No, I have to pick up the fruit and hand it over, so it won't grow.

 

And by the way, if you think about it, both Rongi's and Tamau's crime is to question authority, which makes the moral of this story that doing so will get you killed.

 

Also it might surprise you to learn that even in real life, people are not perfectly rational beings. The whole point of the quest is that the tribe at Tikawara is so wrapped up in its social traditions and hierarchies that the huana will do something that is actively harmful to their future, if it means retaining their social order, and the only way to subvert that is to lie to protect a secret

 

Yes, perfect rationality is a bit much to ask, but you'd be surprised by just how many ancient rituals and social traditions have more or less unintended utility. In this case, if eating the koiki fruit with the seed and all is the ceremony I wouldn't be surprised to find that that is what it takes to make koiki fruit grow. Had the ritual included the Huana s***ing in neat furrows, i wouldn't be surprised by that either. But that utility, and effect, should not surprise Rongi, which would mean he wouldn't have to steal the fruits. And why, if he has money, can't he pay someone for the fruits anyway. Not doing so would imply profound stupidity of everyone involved. My point is that the dichotomy is forced, it is not a choice between one life or many, the problem is a failure of not envisioning any other solution than those two. And I can, and so should anyone, in the same situation, be able to.

Edited by Baldiedash
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No, I have to pick up the fruit and hand it over, so it won't grow.

 

ah right, i forgot that doing anything first requires you to handover the koiki seeds to trigger the next part of the quest.

 

I guess the idea is that you agreed to find the koiki seeds, so the only way to resolve the quest involves finding the koiki seeds. From a narrative perspective, it is odd that there's no option after having talked to Rongi to even just deliberately fail the quest by not returning the seeds.

 

And by the way, if you think about it, both Rongi's and Tamau's crime is to question authority, which makes the moral of this story that doing so will get you killed.

 

I mean, that's the Huana society in a nutshell. Not unsurprising that people living in the Gullet are open to using the black market and working with the Principi for food since trying to disturb the order of things seems to result in a summary execution by being sent into the Old City. (Though after you go and clear it up... is it a punishment anymore? Did you break their system of capital punishment? Shower thoughts...)

 

And why, if he has money, can't he pay someone for the fruits anyway. Not doing so would imply profound stupidity of everyone involved. 

Huana-sociologically speaking, the ability to buy fruits is immaterial compared to the upsetting of the social order, and buying fruits is no solution when put up against the strong culture of self-reliance that the isolationist Huana want (which is kind of contradicted by this settlement's complete dependence on the Valians setting up camp trying to harvest Adra. Probably an intended hypocrisy.)

 

But yes, upon better scratching my memories, the limitation of options (you have to pluck the fruit) seems like a quest-implementation shortcoming, and googling around it seems like there's no shortage of people who agree with you on this.

Edited by thelee
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